IDAGG said:

---

It is curious that Carter Page, for all of his supposedly centrality to the FISA warrant has not been charged with anything.

- Is he a totally innocent goof ball? Meaning the Russians tried to recruit him and he is either clueless or acted dumb (hence the Russian description of him being an idiot)?
- Was he a double naught spy helping the US government in Russia?
- Is he just a scapegoat to get a FISA warrant to spy on Trump? If so why did they spy on him starting after he was separated from the Trump campaign? Why was the warrant renewed 3 more times if he had nothing to do with the Trump campaign or administration?
- Did they find some dirt on someone else via the eaves-dropping on Carter Page?
- He sure as hell doesn't act guilty, he talks to whomever will listen on any and all media.

Something isn't adding up to me. My point is, if he was really guilty of something they would have charged him already. Any ideas?

---

Did you read the thread that has been referenced? It is a very extensive history of Page. Would answer a lot of your questions.

Ag with kids said:

---

Isn't one of the charges against him that he lied to the investigators?

How does that make him a good witness when you're saying you can prove he's a liar?

---

That is likely why they dropped the charges instead of accepting the guilty plea. Hawg may correct me on this, but I do not think Manafort's lawyers will be able to attack Gates' credibility via impeachment with the indictment.

GCP12 said:

---

IDAGG said:

---

It is curious that Carter Page, for all of his supposedly centrality to the FISA warrant has not been charged with anything.

- Is he a totally innocent goof ball? Meaning the Russians tried to recruit him and he is either clueless or acted dumb (hence the Russian description of him being an idiot)?
- Was he a double naught spy helping the US government in Russia?
- Is he just a scapegoat to get a FISA warrant to spy on Trump? If so why did they spy on him starting after he was separated from the Trump campaign? Why was the warrant renewed 3 more times if he had nothing to do with the Trump campaign or administration?
- Did they find some dirt on someone else via the eaves-dropping on Carter Page?
- He sure as hell doesn't act guilty, he talks to whomever will listen on any and all media.

Something isn't adding up to me. My point is, if he was really guilty of something they would have charged him already. Any ideas?

---

Did you read the thread that has been referenced? It is a very extensive history of Page. Would answer a lot of your questions.

---

The one from "Missy America" with all the curse words? The one where she thinks an appointment to the Naval Academy is some super secret training academy for future important people? I'm not making fun of Annapolis or its graduates in the least. It's just that she puts a lot of emphasis on the fact that he went there so he was a super important government asset from the start.

So it's hard for me to come to grips with her thread and if its legit or not. I have no doubt some of her stuff in that thread is legit and the fact that he hasn't been charged yet should make any open minded person ask why.

This seems well, kind of misinformed/exaggerated

Quote:

---

Page was groomed since a teenager to be a high pedigree MILITARY INTELLIGENCE ASSET

---

Quote:

---

14) Prospective candidates MUST EITHER BE NOMINATED BY MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, THE PRESIDENT OR VICE-PRESIDENT, THE SECRETARY OF THE NAVYOR BE THE CHILD OF A MEDAL OF HONOR RECIPIENT.

WHAT?
This sounds something like a GROOMING SCHOOL for VERY VERY IMPORTANT PEOPLE.

---

Or someone who's family knew their local congressman and/or the young man was a high achiever. But again her description is really stretching to fit her narrative that Carter Page was groomed since 18 years old to be a super secret spook.

GCP12 said:

---

IDAGG said:

---

It is curious that Carter Page, for all of his supposedly centrality to the FISA warrant has not been charged with anything.

- Is he a totally innocent goof ball? Meaning the Russians tried to recruit him and he is either clueless or acted dumb (hence the Russian description of him being an idiot)?
- Was he a double naught spy helping the US government in Russia?
- Is he just a scapegoat to get a FISA warrant to spy on Trump? If so why did they spy on him starting after he was separated from the Trump campaign? Why was the warrant renewed 3 more times if he had nothing to do with the Trump campaign or administration?
- Did they find some dirt on someone else via the eaves-dropping on Carter Page?
- He sure as hell doesn't act guilty, he talks to whomever will listen on any and all media.

Something isn't adding up to me. My point is, if he was really guilty of something they would have charged him already. Any ideas?

---

Did you read the thread that has been referenced? It is a very extensive history of Page. Would answer a lot of your questions.

---

Another curiosity: One of the points of the Schiff memo, is that the investigation did not start with Page and the dossier. Therefore, the dossier was not created in order to obtain a FISA warrant. In fact, the Schiff memo makes clear the Pappadapolis statements to the Aussie pol is what kicked off the investigation.

So why not FISA warrant on Pappadapolis? You had admissible evidence from the Aussie guy that Paps was seeking dirt from the Ruskies, yet no one took steps to initiate surveillance of him?

Sarge 91 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Isn't one of the charges against him that he lied to the investigators?

How does that make him a good witness when you're saying you can prove he's a liar?

---

That is likely why they dropped the charges instead of accepting the guilty plea. Hawg may correct me on this, but I do not think Manafort's lawyers will be able to attack Gates' credibility via impeachment with the indictment.

---

Not a criminal lawyer here but I wonder if a now-dismissed indictment for lying to the government is admissible as evidence to show lack of reliability of a witness. Easy to get around any hearsay issues for many reasons.

Manafort probably has some slimy history, particularly financially. It likely predates Trump, however.

Fair enough. That wasn't the part that interested me. The letters he sent to Comey, and others as well as other cases he was involved in with Russian spies is what interested me.

Seems short sighted to disregard everything the person says because of what you quoted. To each his own, though.

Nice Beverly Hillbillies reference there Jethro.

What interested me is if that is really her in her twitter profile picture.

blindey said:

---

Sarge 91 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Isn't one of the charges against him that he lied to the investigators?

How does that make him a good witness when you're saying you can prove he's a liar?

---

That is likely why they dropped the charges instead of accepting the guilty plea. Hawg may correct me on this, but I do not think Manafort's lawyers will be able to attack Gates' credibility via impeachment with the indictment.

---

Not a criminal lawyer here but I wonder if a now-dismissed indictment for lying to the government is admissible as evidence to show lack of reliability of a witness. Easy to get around any hearsay issues for many reasons.

---

Fed Rule of Evidence 609 requires a conviction in order to impeach a witness' character for truthfulness. They dismissed instead of convicting, so evidence of the indictment should be excluded.

Rule 608 possible would allow the evidence, if the evidence is "probative" of the witness' character for truthfulness.

Something tells me Mueller's team was confident the dismissal would result in the evidence of lying to the Feds being excluded and out of bounds for impeachment.

GCP12 said:

---

Fair enough. That wasn't the part that interested me. The letters he sent to Comey, and others as well as other cases he was involved in with Russian spies is what interested me.

Seems short sighted to disregard everything the person says because of what you quoted. To each his own, though.

---

But I didn't. From my post:

Quote:

---

So it's hard for me to come to grips with her thread and if its legit or not. I have no doubt some of her stuff in that thread is legit

---

Ah sorry. Misread your post originally

Sessions opened an investigation into FISA abuses. Just talked about in the daily briefing

GCP12 said:

---

Sessions opened an investigation into FISA abuses. Just talked about in the daily briefing

---

Everything continues to line up for the OIG report. Sessions has opened up investigations into just about everything people have been clamoring for.

The report gives him the evidence and political cover needed to go full speed ahead with prosecution.

200 pages! We may exceed Tears Thread status by the time this thing is done.

GCP12 said:

---

Sessions opened an investigation into FISA abuses. Just talked about in the daily briefing

---

Bird93 said:

---

200 pages! We may exceed Tears Thread status by the time this thing is done.

---

As much as I love sip tears they would be nothing compared to Hillary or Obama's tears. Boy I hope we get to taste them.

friscodick said:

---

Bird93 said:

---

200 pages! We may exceed Tears Thread status by the time this thing is done.

---

As much as I love sip tears they would be nothing compared to Hillary or Obama's tears. Boy I hope we get to taste them.

---

I wish the mods would change the thread title to

*****Official Mueller Investigation Thread*****

While I agree that's what it is this title tends to keep out the thread hijacks.

New Last Refuge thread:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/968592185078755328.html

Sarge 91 said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Isn't one of the charges against him that he lied to the investigators?

How does that make him a good witness when you're saying you can prove he's a liar?

---

That is likely why they dropped the charges instead of accepting the guilty plea. Hawg may correct me on this, but I do not think Manafort's lawyers will be able to attack Gates' credibility via impeachment with the indictment.

---

The charges that were dismissed didn't include the lying to the FBI charge to which he has already pled, as I understand it. It was the more serious tax and bank fraud charges that were thrown into the superceding indictment.

Not to get too far into the weeds here, Mueller had a venue concern some things could be charged in the DC area and some things could only be charged in Virginia. There were two grand juries and two indictments. Gates waived the venue issue but Manafort did not. So Mueller then consolidated the charges as to Gates into one venue, hence the new indictments he filed and has now dismissed w/o prejudice. The original plea agreement is still in force, however. Gates still faces jail time.

And yes, that means Manafort is still facing a two front war with two grand juries.

With all the Dem talking points of Republican appointed judges it's going to be great when the OIG report drops and we can remind them all that Obama appointed Horowitz.

Reading Mueller's motion to dismiss after reading the Atlantic article about Manafort was enlightening to say the least.

Manafort is toast. The tens of millions of dollars he (and Gates) funneled through offshore accounts and shell companies is what will send him to the big house for years. Something tells me that there were hidden funds Mueller found that Gates was unaware of and Gates (as part of past compensation) was entitled to. No honor among thieves, Gates flipped to aid Mueller (as well as do minimal jail time).

All of the information points to activity prior to 2016 and more specifically prior to 2014.

Obviously Mueller has not shown his hand with additional information he may have. Something tells me we will find out more about Oleg Deripaska and the 200 million dollars that he entrusted to Manafort among other things.

GCP12 said:

---

New Last Refuge thread:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/968592185078755328.html

---

Is this true?? Sessions is finally going after the Obamian-intel agency FISA plot?

I notice that the portals still have more of this kind of slop. Haven't seen that announcement yet:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/us-intel-russia-compromised-seven-states-prior-to-2016-election/ar-BBJG4d8?li=BBnb7Kz

Ag81Golf said:

---

Reading Mueller's motion to dismiss after reading the Atlantic article about Manafort was enlightening to say the least.

Manafort is toast. The tens of millions of dollars he (and Gates) funneled through offshore accounts and shell companies is what will send him to the big house for years. Something tells me that there were hidden funds Mueller found that Gates was unaware of and Gates (as part of past compensation) was entitled to. No honor among thieves, Gates flipped to aid Mueller (as well as do minimal jail time).

All of the information points to activity prior to 2016 and more specifically prior to 2014.

Obviously Mueller has not shown his hand with additional information he may have. Something tells me we will find out more about Oleg Deripaska and the 200 million dollars that he entrusted to Manafort among other things.

---

Good! Manafort is a slimy guy and should go down for his actions in the past.

But can a President be impeached because he had a slimy campaign manager for a couple of months??

By that standard, every Dem Pres would be impeached/indicted. Start with Hillary and work back.

Remember Hawg, anyone can do anything in your name--------as long as it isn't your intent!!!!

The left tells us that all the time, and they know the law (or whatever they think it is that day)!!

https://spectator.org/nellie-ohr-woman-in-the-middle/

Quote:

---

Is it a surprise to find a Stalin apologist at the center of the Steele dossier scandal?

---

I don't recommend reading this article -- here is a brief summary:

The author states that little is known of Nellie Ohr, but that she does have a paper trial in academics & book reviews. Nellie Ohr's PhD thesis in History is titled: "Collective farms and Russian peasant society, 1933-1937: the stabilization of the kolkhoz order"? From analyzing Ohr's published works, the author surmises that Nellie Ohr is a "revisionist" and "Stalin apologist" = a Marxist.

One peripheral paragraph did catch my eye:

Quote:

---

This is in contrast to what we know of Steele, aside from his widely reported anti-Trump animus. We may read that Steele was widely known as a "confirmed socialist" while president of the Cambridge Union debating society in 1986; we may see, thirty blank years later, that he chose to break the sensational outlines of his relationship with the FBI and role in its investigation of the Trump campaign in Mother Jones, a media outlet named for a famous American socialist; but Nellie Ohr has a paper trail.

---

So we have a "confirmed socialist" intelligence official, assisted by a "Marxist" academic, hired to compose a political-opposition hit piece on an American Presidential candidate. Sounds like FISA Court material to me.

aggiehawg said:

---

Ag81Golf said:

---

Reading Mueller's motion to dismiss after reading the Atlantic article about Manafort was enlightening to say the least.

Manafort is toast. The tens of millions of dollars he (and Gates) funneled through offshore accounts and shell companies is what will send him to the big house for years. Something tells me that there were hidden funds Mueller found that Gates was unaware of and Gates (as part of past compensation) was entitled to. No honor among thieves, Gates flipped to aid Mueller (as well as do minimal jail time).

All of the information points to activity prior to 2016 and more specifically prior to 2014.

Obviously Mueller has not shown his hand with additional information he may have. Something tells me we will find out more about Oleg Deripaska and the 200 million dollars that he entrusted to Manafort among other things.

---

Good! Manafort is a slimy guy and should go down for his actions in the past.

But can a President be impeached because he had a slimy campaign manager for a couple of months??

By that standard, every Dem Pres would be impeached/indicted. Start with Hillary and work back.

---

What the evidence shows so far is Manafort will go down for not reporting income to the IRS and of course for lying about said income to the Feds.

There is no collusion regarding the Trump campaign and the Russians in my opinion. I think Manafort and his offshore schemes fell into Mueller's lap and gives Mueller the chance to justify his existence and say "I have indicted people".

drcrinum said:

---

https://spectator.org/nellie-ohr-woman-in-the-middle/

Quote:

---

Is it a surprise to find a Stalin apologist at the center of the Steele dossier scandal?

---

I don't recommend reading this article -- here is a brief summary:

The author states that little is known of Nellie Ohr, but that she does have a paper trial in academics & book reviews. Nellie Ohr's PhD thesis in History is titled: "Collective farms and Russian peasant society, 1933-1937: the stabilization of the kolkhoz order"? From analyzing Ohr's published works, the author surmises that Nellie Ohr is a "revisionist" and "Stalin apologist" = a Marxist.

One peripheral paragraph did catch my eye:

Quote:

---

This is in contrast to what we know of Steele, aside from his widely reported anti-Trump animus. We may read that Steele was widely known as a "confirmed socialist" while president of the Cambridge Union debating society in 1986; we may see, thirty blank years later, that he chose to break the sensational outlines of his relationship with the FBI and role in its investigation of the Trump campaign in Mother Jones, a media outlet named for a famous American socialist; but Nellie Ohr has a paper trail.

---

So we have a "confirmed socialist" intelligence official, assisted by a "Marxist" academic, hired to compose a political-opposition hit piece on an American Presidential candidate. Sounds like FISA Court material to me.

---

Just marxists doing what marxists do, at the direction of a corrupt marxist-in-chief.

Thanks for telling me not to read the article. I can't think of a good reason to spike the blood pressure at 7 AM!

That's incredibly depressing to know that those jackwagons could allow her into sensitive areas of our government, and then realize her husband works for the FBI.

Between her, Brennan, and Van Jones, I'm surprised we haven't started a huge Mayday parade through DC.

Frickin' Jarret.

Thank God it's going to be March tomorrow. I am ready to get this going!

Wendy 1990 said:

---

Thank God it's going to be March tomorrow. I am ready to get this going!

---

I'm with you. Ready for that IG report to drop and see justice go on the offense.

ccatag said:

---

Wendy 1990 said:

---

Thank God it's going to be March tomorrow. I am ready to get this going!

---

I'm with you. Ready for that IG report to drop and see justice go on the offense.

---

Question is, will our current DOJ have the cojones to get the job done? Here's hoping.

Considering everything that he ended up having to investigate, the final report is going to be longer than the Obamacare bill.