Mueller dismisses top FBI agent in Russia probe for anti-Trump texts

7,557,930 Views | 49302 Replies | Last: 5 days ago by policywonk98
drcrinum
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HeardAboutPerio said:



4. We all need to see the Democratic memo to have both sides of the story.


I wonder if the Schiff Memo actually exists. No one has reported seeing it -- it was never presented for the Republicans at the HPSIC to review. Might be a busy weekend for Schiff if this is to become part of the Dem narrative.

On the other hand, if Rosenstein is fired/removed/demoted over the weekend, the Dems will go full blast on 'obstruction of justice' and the Schiff Memo will quietly disappear from the narrative.
HeardAboutPerio
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Catherine Herridge just reported that the dossier info was the first supporting evidence listed in the FISA warrant request.
HeardAboutPerio
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drcrinum said:

HeardAboutPerio said:



4. We all need to see the Democratic memo to have both sides of the story.


I wonder if the Schiff Memo actually exists. No one has reported seeing it -- it was never presented for the Republicans at the HPSIC to review. Might be a busy weekend for Schiff if this is to become part of the Dem narrative.

On the other hand, if Rosenstein is fired/removed/demoted over the weekend, the Dems will go full blast on 'obstruction of justice' and the Schiff Memo will quietly disappear from the narrative.


Schiff et al have sent a letter to Trump stating that any removal of Rosenstein would be viewed as obstruction of justice.
The Catalyst
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Oh look it's Schiff!
RoscoePColtrane
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drcrinum said:

HeardAboutPerio said:



4. We all need to see the Democratic memo to have both sides of the story.


I wonder if the Schiff Memo actually exists. No one has reported seeing it -- it was never presented for the Republicans at the HPSIC to review. Might be a busy weekend for Schiff if this is to become part of the Dem narrative.

On the other hand, if Rosenstein is fired/removed/demoted over the weekend, the Dems will go full blast on 'obstruction of justice' and the Schiff Memo will quietly disappear from the narrative.
They claim it's 10 pages and HIC members have seen it.
hbtheduce
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HeardAboutPerio said:

drcrinum said:

HeardAboutPerio said:



4. We all need to see the Democratic memo to have both sides of the story.


I wonder if the Schiff Memo actually exists. No one has reported seeing it -- it was never presented for the Republicans at the HPSIC to review. Might be a busy weekend for Schiff if this is to become part of the Dem narrative.

On the other hand, if Rosenstein is fired/removed/demoted over the weekend, the Dems will go full blast on 'obstruction of justice' and the Schiff Memo will quietly disappear from the narrative.


Schiff et al have sent a letter to Trump stating that any removal of Rosenstein would be viewed as obstruction of justice.

Trump could fire RR and keep mueller. How is that obstruction?
drcrinum
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HeardAboutPerio said:

drcrinum said:

HeardAboutPerio said:



4. We all need to see the Democratic memo to have both sides of the story.


I wonder if the Schiff Memo actually exists. No one has reported seeing it -- it was never presented for the Republicans at the HPSIC to review. Might be a busy weekend for Schiff if this is to become part of the Dem narrative.

On the other hand, if Rosenstein is fired/removed/demoted over the weekend, the Dems will go full blast on 'obstruction of justice' and the Schiff Memo will quietly disappear from the narrative.


Schiff et al have sent a letter to Trump stating that any removal of Rosenstein would be viewed as obstruction of justice.
What if the House Judiciary Committee initiated articles of impeachment against Rosenstein? It's their prerogative to do so. That would take Trump/Sessions off the hook.
aginlakeway
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HeardAboutPerio said:

Catherine Herridge just reported that the dossier info was the first supporting evidence listed in the FISA warrant request.


That would be a very significant development.
"I'm sure that won't make a bit of difference for those of you who enjoy a baseless rage over the decisions of a few teenagers."
drcrinum
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This is from a developing thread by Rex, but it's an important point. Comey was indirectly blackmailing Trump by not publicly announcing that Trump was not under investigation, and this would be an additional 'ace in the hole' -- Trump was being illegally investigated.
drcrinum
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drcrinum
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Yup.
oysterbayAG
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Were the FISA Judges in on this slimy scheme against Trump ? I hope Senator Grassley hauls their asses before the SJC !
Secolobo
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drcrinum said:

HeardAboutPerio said:

drcrinum said:

HeardAboutPerio said:



4. We all need to see the Democratic memo to have both sides of the story.


I wonder if the Schiff Memo actually exists. No one has reported seeing it -- it was never presented for the Republicans at the HPSIC to review. Might be a busy weekend for Schiff if this is to become part of the Dem narrative.

On the other hand, if Rosenstein is fired/removed/demoted over the weekend, the Dems will go full blast on 'obstruction of justice' and the Schiff Memo will quietly disappear from the narrative.


Schiff et al have sent a letter to Trump stating that any removal of Rosenstein would be viewed as obstruction of justice.
What if the House Judiciary Committee initiated articles of impeachment against Rosenstein? It's their prerogative to do so. That would take Trump/Sessions off the hook.
And when the HJC votes along party lines it would really paint a clear picture...
Can I go to sleep Looch?
techno-ag
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drcrinum said:



This is from a developing thread by Rex, but it's an important point. Comey was indirectly blackmailing Trump by not publicly announcing that Trump was not under investigation, and this would be an additional 'ace in the hole' -- Trump was being illegally investigated.
Rockdoc
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Secolobo said:

drcrinum said:

HeardAboutPerio said:

drcrinum said:

HeardAboutPerio said:

O

4. We all need to see the Democratic memo to have both sides of the story.


I wonder if the Schiff Memo actually exists. No one has reported seeing it -- it was never presented for the Republicans at the HPSIC to review. Might be a busy weekend for Schiff if this is to become part of the Dem narrative.

On the other hand, if Rosenstein is fired/removed/demoted over the weekend, the Dems will go full blast on 'obstruction of justice' and the Schiff Memo will quietly disappear from the narrative.


Schiff et al have sent a letter to Trump stating that any removal of Rosenstein would be viewed as obstruction of justice.
What if the House Judiciary Committee initiated articles of impeachment against Rosenstein? It's their prerogative to do so. That would take Trump/Sessions off the hook.
And when the HJC votes along party lines it would really paint a clear picture...
Haven't you heard? That's how it works now days.
techno-ag
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oysterbayAG said:

Were the FISA Judges in on this slimy scheme against Trump ? I hope Senator Grassley hauls their asses before the SJC !
There has to be consequences for trust to be restored.
HeardAboutPerio
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Add one more media argument:

Papadopulus was already being investigated for ties to Russia as was Page. The use of the dossier had no bearing on the need for investigation.
Secolobo
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Rockdoc said:

Secolobo said:

drcrinum said:

HeardAboutPerio said:

drcrinum said:

HeardAboutPerio said:

O

4. We all need to see the Democratic memo to have both sides of the story.


I wonder if the Schiff Memo actually exists. No one has reported seeing it -- it was never presented for the Republicans at the HPSIC to review. Might be a busy weekend for Schiff if this is to become part of the Dem narrative.

On the other hand, if Rosenstein is fired/removed/demoted over the weekend, the Dems will go full blast on 'obstruction of justice' and the Schiff Memo will quietly disappear from the narrative.


Schiff et al have sent a letter to Trump stating that any removal of Rosenstein would be viewed as obstruction of justice.
What if the House Judiciary Committee initiated articles of impeachment against Rosenstein? It's their prerogative to do so. That would take Trump/Sessions off the hook.
And when the HJC votes along party lines it would really paint a clear picture...
Haven't you heard? That's how it works now days.
What I'm saying is that to be brought up for impeachment the evidence and impending/probable charges would be so blatant, but they'd still vote against it.
Hello midterms....(vote won't happen that fast.)
Can I go to sleep Looch?
aggiehawg
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HeardAboutPerio said:

Add one more media argument:

Papadopulus was already being investigated for ties to Russia as was Page. The use of the dossier had no bearing on the need for investigation.
Then it wouldn't have been the lead off evidence in the original FISA request as reported by Herridge.
drcrinum
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Secolobo said:

drcrinum said:

HeardAboutPerio said:

drcrinum said:

HeardAboutPerio said:



4. We all need to see the Democratic memo to have both sides of the story.


I wonder if the Schiff Memo actually exists. No one has reported seeing it -- it was never presented for the Republicans at the HPSIC to review. Might be a busy weekend for Schiff if this is to become part of the Dem narrative.

On the other hand, if Rosenstein is fired/removed/demoted over the weekend, the Dems will go full blast on 'obstruction of justice' and the Schiff Memo will quietly disappear from the narrative.


Schiff et al have sent a letter to Trump stating that any removal of Rosenstein would be viewed as obstruction of justice.
What if the House Judiciary Committee initiated articles of impeachment against Rosenstein? It's their prerogative to do so. That would take Trump/Sessions off the hook.
And when the HJC votes along party lines it would really paint a clear picture...
Well, the Memo vote was strictly along party lines.
I think President Andrew Jackson stated: "To the victor belongs the spoils."...which could have a double meaning.
Finn
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Hawg, thoughts on the memo? Have you already posted it?!?
RoscoePColtrane
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aggiehawg said:

HeardAboutPerio said:

Add one more media argument:

Papadopulus was already being investigated for ties to Russia as was Page. The use of the dossier had no bearing on the need for investigation.
Then it wouldn't have been the lead off evidence in the original FISA request as reported by Herridge.
And we know they were turned down by the FISA course at least twice prior to the dossier and prior to being granted on the third try.
RoscoePColtrane
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Finn said:

Hawg, thoughts on the memo? Have you already posted it?!?
Her post from another thread

Quote:


Okay. Got The Hubs back home following his surgery and he's resting. Have read the memo and through this thread as well as others.

My take as of now:

McCabe

McCabe spent 10 hours testifying behind closed doors Dec 21, 2017. The only thing he stated that was verified in the dossier was that Carter Page had indeed visited Russia, according to reports. That was it. So, does anyone who travels to Moscow get slapped with a FISA warrant request? Obviously not. Page had been investigated before in 2013 and nothing was found, investigation closed. So, what else was different about Page traveling to Moscow now? He was a volunteer on the Trump Campaign Foreign Policy team AND he was specifically mentioned in the Steel dossier as meeting with Russian agents during said trip. An allegation that the FBI is unable to verify. But Steele had been of some use to the FBI before which is why the dossier even made it up to the 7th Floor.

So when McCabe says that a FISA warrant likely wouldn't have been sought without the FBI also having the Steele dossier, take him at his word. And he says that even knowing the origin of the Steele Dossier as being paid for by the Clinton Campaign and the DNC. No matter how you slice it, that is not good. Frankly I'm amazed he even admitted that. (But I'll get to the reason I think he did later.)

FISA PROCESS

As stated in the memo, FISA warrants expire after 90 days unless renewed. And each renewal has to have new probable cause as the basis of the warrant. That's probable cause, not the suspicion that something's not on the up and up, not that an American businessman with business interests in Russia made a trip to Russia, but probable cause. That standard requires more than allegations in an unverified and uncorroborated (from independent sources) dossier written at the request of and on the dime of a Presidential Campaign.

But then the Page FISA warrant was extended three more times, each time requiring additional probable cause. How did that happen?? I have no idea. And remember, Steele had essentially been discredited and fired as a source by the FBI by the point of the first extension. (If not before the first request. Unclear on that.) Further, Page had severed ties with the Trump campaign before the first FISA warrant was even requested.

Was there the belief that Page might circle back around and join the Trump Administration at some point and thus kept going, just in case, like say... an insurance policy?? We don't know.

But we most likely will know the answer to those questions soon and here's why.

Inspector General Horowitz's Report

We have all been entertained, outraged and at times perplexed by the text messages between the star crossed lovers, Strzok and Page. Horowitz has many more texts, emails, drafts etc. from the FBI/DOJ during the times frames at issue here.

There would have had to have been active discussions about the dossier, efforts to verify it, questioning its provenance and in general the attitudes of people evaluating its contents. Particularly when it came to inclusion on a FISA request. Was there any blow-back from the FBI lawyers? Any words of caution?? If so how were received and addressed?? Who was pushing using the dossier as the basis for a FISA request? Who else was under consideration for such a warrant request?? Was unmasking of raw NSA intel discussed??

So, when that voluminous report comes out, pay attention to activities and conversations around the original request date in October and each 90 day cycle after that. Grassley also has requested the same materials particularly when it came to the "Principals": Comey, McCabe, Rosenstein, Lynch and other FBI/DOJ employees.

Tip of the ice berg indeed. Raises more questions than it answers but it does confirm that some unprofessional and just flat out bad things were going on at the upper levels of the FBI/DOJ. And there were likely many more such acts.

drcrinum
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HeardAboutPerio said:

Add one more media argument:

Papadopulus was already being investigated for ties to Russia as was Page. The use of the dossier had no bearing on the need for investigation.
Papadopoulos was being illegally surveilled before there was a FISA warrant, pre-dating Page. The dossier was used for Page.
Finn
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Thank you
TAMU1990
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drcrinum said:

Quote:

And when the HJC votes along party lines it would really paint a clear picture...
Well, the Memo vote was strictly along party lines.
I think President Andrew Jackson stated: "To the victor belongs the spoils."...which could have a double meaning.
Didn't Obama say elections have consequences...
MouthBQ98
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It seems that in the effort to come up with evidence to prove Trump's team conspired with foreign agents to interfere in an election, certain US officials basically conspired with foreign agents to interfere with an election and then the subsequent presidency...

Ironic. I still think at least SOME of them were so focused on the prize they really did not fully realize the true magnitude and implications of what they themselves were doing, at least not until it was far too late to back out and come clean. They were commited then to try to take out Trump or at least cripple his ability to govern until this mess could be buried. Some may still believe what they did was or will be justified by their intent or the vain hope that Trump was in fact colluding and they just haven't made someone confess yet.
drcrinum
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https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/959530045986320384.html


Thread about FISA. When Comey was fired, Rosenstein had a problem: He hired Mueller to cover up the dirty FISA warrant. Read for yourself.
MouthBQ98
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This was a theory I had: Mueller's operation was a conveniently unassailable "cleanup operation" and not really an investigation.
FbgTxAg
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drcrinum said:



https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/959530045986320384.html


Thread about FISA. When Comey was fired, Rosenstein had a problem: He hired Mueller to cover up the dirty FISA warrant. Read for yourself.
Legal commentary thread on #Memo: It is important to remember that FISA courts are not like other courts; there needs to be specific evidence of a particular national security threat to circumvent regular federal courts. It is a HIGHER standard because its jurisdiction is LIMITED

FISA courts have LIMITED jurisdiction because the scope of the invasive tools of the NSA is far more INVASIVE than regular wiretaps, due to the SECRET nature of such courts, and from the risk of forum shopping with the limited number and deferential nature of FISA Judges.

That is why Congress imposed SPECIAL RESTRICTIONS on access to FISA courts and use of FISA evidence. To access FISA courts, only the highest ranking FBI officials must vet and approve, a high ranking DOJ official must authorize, and they must re-vet and re-approve every 90 days.

To spy on Americans through a FISA court, the FBI must show the target is an "agent of a foreign power," not merely in contact with a foreign power. The law makes it difficult to show someone is an "agent of a foreign power" to make sure it is not misused to spy on Americans.

The law does not allow the FBI to call an American an "agent of a foreign power" unless they can show the person "knowingly engages in clandestine intelligence gathering activities for or on behalf of a foreign power" AND the nature of their activity is criminalized.

Claiming someone is an "agent of a foreign power" is a difficult standard to ever show, and should never happen to a domestic political opponent in a domestic political campaign. That is why the FBI had to cook the books -- put a bogus informant on their team & lie to the courts.

Trump's winning caused a problem for Comey & Comey's firing caused a problem for Rosenstein. Both Comey & Rosenstein signed off on the bogus affidavits to the FISA court to continue spying on Trump team members post-election and post-inauguration. They needed Mueller to cover up.

Key fact about Mueller: he is very close friends with Comey, and was the mentor and close friend of Rosenstein. Mueller is also expert at covering up for lawless law enforcement: see his role with Whitey Bulger, BCCI, HSBC, Waco, Noriega, IRS/Tea Party & Fast & Furious.

FISA law protects Americans from lawless spying by masking & deletion of intercepted data. If an American's conversations are intercepted, his identity must remain hidden, and if no p/c of a crime, his conversations deleted. Hence, the importance of @Cernovich Susan Rice story.

FBI turned over their NSA spying capacity to a private lobbying company in order to promote a smear campaign against a domestic political opponent. Fearing being caught, they appointed a special counsel (Mueller) to cover for them by accusing the man (Trump) who might expose them


The greatest argument ever made against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter.
FireAg
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I'm convinced that Comey's smugness is because he believes that removing Trump was his "patriotic duty", no matter what it took and what laws were broken...

The end justified the means, in his mind...the Constitution be damned.,.
Rockdoc
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MouthBQ98 said:

It seems that in the effort to come up with evidence to prove Trump's team conspired with foreign agents to interfere in an election, certain US officials basically conspired with foreign agents to interfere with an election and then the subsequent presidency...

Ironic. I still think at least SOME of them were so focused on the prize they really did not fully realize the true magnitude and implications of what they themselves were doing, at least not until it was far too late to back out and come clean. They were commited then to try to take out Trump or at least cripple his ability to govern until this mess could be buried. Some may still believe what they did was or will be justified by their intent or the vain hope that Trump was in fact colluding and they just haven't made someone confess yet.
This is so true. They had to come up with something, ANYTHING, and this is the direction they decided to go. And when I say they, I mean the obama admin, Obama's DOJ, Hillary, the DNC, and especially the media, their vehicle. When they got into it they couldn't stop and just kept digging deeper. They did this because they never dreamed they were gonna have to answer for it.
drcrinum
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MouthBQ98 said:

This was a theory I had: Mueller's operation was a conveniently unassailable "cleanup operation" and not really an investigation.
But was the final operation just a cleanup, or did it include an attempt at impeachment as well? Covering up illegal surveillance is criminal, overthrowing an elected and seated President is treason.
Stat Monitor Repairman
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Artist depiction of Muller clutching his fruit of the poisonous tree.


drcrinum
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Don't forget, a parallel Memo is on the way from Grassley.
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