benchmark said:

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Well please explain.

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AggieHawg can correct me if I'm wrong but .... If Howowitz and a DOJ prosecutor/grand jury/judge are working together, it makes the OIG's job infinitely easier ... and conversely since prosecutors have scant investigative resources, the prosecutors job is also made infinitely easier.

Bottom line - if a prosecutor and OIG are working together, there's a much higher probability of sealed indictments sitting in the out-basket waiting for OIG to complete it's investigation.

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Please understand Horowitz is not a prosecutor and won't be working with any judges. He's what we call in the LEO world as Internal affairs. He strictly investigates the investigators.

benchmark said:

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Well please explain.

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AggieHawg can correct me if I'm wrong but .... If Howowitz and a DOJ prosecutor/grand jury/judge are working together, it makes the OIG's job infinitely easier ... and conversely since prosecutors have scant investigative resources, the prosecutors job is also made infinitely easier.

Bottom line - if a prosecutor and OIG are working together, there's a much higher probability of sealed indictments sitting in the out-basket waiting for OIG to complete it's investigation.

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I am not sure they are quite there yet. Horowitz has a large staff separate from DOJ which includes a lot of lawyers but he can't empanel a grand jury.

And DOJ uses the FBI as their investigative resource. Which is a complicating factor since it is the FBI and DOJ that are being investigated, or at least select people at those agencies.

That being said, if Horowitz is working directly with a DOJ prosecutor it would be this one, Trump nominee Jessie K. Liu, confirmed last fall as US Attorney for the DC district. Bio is Here.

Like the 10,000 plus that are sitting there right now?

nm, Hawg beat me to it and she actually knows what she's talking about, unlike me. :-)

aggiehawg said:

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That being said, if Horowitz is working directly with a DOJ prosecutor it would be this one, Trump nominee Jessie K. Liu, confirmed last fall as US Attorney for the DC district.

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Or another capable DOJ prosecutor. Someone that can help OIG by pressuring witnesses, requesting wiretaps, requesting immunity, etc. with judge's consent. If so, the process may be much further along than many believe.

I've talked about it before, it was talked about by Paine and Gritz on the podcast that there are a stack of sealed indictments at the DOJ that are waiting to be opened. They unsealed one on the U1 trucking guy.

I know at the state level sealed indictments were handled by a special grand jury where they could remain secret. And I'd be willing to bet at the federal level it's close to the same way.

benchmark said:

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aggiehawg said:

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That being said, if Horowitz is working directly with a DOJ prosecutor it would be this one, Trump nominee Jessie K. Liu, confirmed last fall as US Attorney for the DC district.

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Or another capable DOJ prosecutor. Someone that can help OIG by pressuring witnesses, requesting wiretaps, requesting immunity, etc. with judge's consent. If so, the process may be much further along than many believe.

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One of the beauties of Horowitz's job, he doesn't need a warrant to get phone records or monitor any of their work communications, (i.e. email, texts, whatever). He can just get what he wants, and he has the entire IC toolbox at his fingertips.

To expand on what I said earlier, Horowitz has been on this investigation for just over a year. He started it before Trump was inaugurated, before Sessions was confirmed and during a transition in the US Attorney's office in DC. He was likely flying solo for the early part of it. (Remember he was thwarted by Acting Attorney General Sally Yates as to whether he even had jurisdiction to investigate the FBI's unit on National Security.)

Horowitz could either wait to complete his report before making criminal referrals to DOJ or make them against select targets as he proceeded with his investigation. Horowitz did go to Mueller last summer regarding the texts he had obtained between Strzok/Page. Unsure exactly why he did that, unless he was asked to do so by Rosenstein. (Rosenstein does technically have veto power over Mueller's staff.)

All of these stories about sealed indictments could be unrelated to Horowitz's work, is my point.

aggiehawg said:

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To expand on what I said earlier, Horowitz has been on this investigation for just over a year. He started it before Trump was inaugurated, before Sessions was confirmed and during a transition in the US Attorney's office in DC. He was likely flying solo for the early part of it. (Remember he was thwarted by Acting Attorney General Sally Yates as to whether he even had jurisdiction to investigate the FBI's unit on National Security.)

Horowitz could either wait to complete his report before making criminal referrals to DOJ or make them against select targets as he proceeded with his investigation. Horowitz did go to Mueller last summer regarding the texts he had obtained between Strzok/Page. Unsure exactly why he did that, unless he was asked to do so by Rosenstein. (Rosenstein does technically have veto power over Mueller's staff.)

All of these stories about sealed indictments could be unrelated to Horowitz's work, is my point.

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Yes I didn't mean to confuse the two. As I explained earlier I look at Horowitz as IA at the tate level. Completely separate from the prosecutors or enforcement. I unintentionally "colluded" the two, hos ironic

I'm personally just excited that Henry Gibson is getting so much done while giving the appearance of being in a coma until someone mentions Weed....

OPAG said:

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I'm not an attorney or a cop. I am however on the executive board of Christian based non profit that receives numerous request for funds. I have developed a pretty good nose for snakes, liars and con guys. The hardest to discern are those who are themselves being decieved. Took me about a minute to discern Comey was at the very least double minded. After watching the about 10 minutes before the house, I knew he was a snake.

The deal with Comey though is he like many I have come across. He really believes that he is virtuous, when in reality he is just Machiavellian. I think this guy has real emotional/psychological issues. Talking about meglomania.? Nothing wrong with his intelligence he just sees things through a twisted grid. Understandable when you have been hanging around corrupt people as much as he has. He saw himself as Hoover.

I believe that Comey was not so much pro Hillary as much as he was scared to death of Trump. He also knew that Trump was aware of the wire tapping and the GPS fusion BS and that if he released it it would pu the FBI in a bad light. So, with Sessions recusal and RR as deputy and with Mueller his BBF. I think this whole SC was collusion between RR, Comey, some high placed DNC to get trump before he could reveal this. So, the ends justifies the means. I

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This first thing I thought about while reading your post was Mueller's choice of "besties".

Whom you choose to to run with says a hell of a lot.

What podcast? I'd be interested in listening.

I'm a long time lurker and have been following this thread closely. I've seen it posted that there are a higher than normal amount of sealed indictments. How does one verify that info? I'm trying to follow along and would also like to verify information posted as best I can. Thanks in advance.

aggiehawg said:

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All of these stories about sealed indictments could be unrelated to Horowitz's work, is my point.

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All valid points. Sealed, pending, or almost complete is my point. Formal OIG referrals aside and assuming there actually is a DOJ prosecutor, isn't it likely Horowitz would feed a DOJ prosecutor with requested intel .... and a DOJ prosecutor would feed Horowitz with (say) wiretap intel?

jphjr said:

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What podcast? I'd be interested in listening.

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Here is Jasons YouTube page, he's a great listen.

There are currently over 13K sealed indictments pending in US district courts; that 13 times the norm of around 1000K.

Something is going on; I'm not gonna go all Q and claim that they are all related to the goings on in this thread, but it would strike just about anyone as . . . odd.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1KPh2ASFggwF1XVnVpDB3mtwvwlH71om6

I would guess a chunk of those indictments are related to MS-13. Trump's DOJ has been very aggressive (rightfully so) in going after those thugs.

That would be perfectly fine with me.

I also tend to think they are not related to Mueller's investigation. I know last fall there was rampant speculation that Mueller was dropping sealed indictments like skittles but this many months later and none of them have been unsealed? When Flynn's, Manafort's, Gates and Papadopulous were immediately made public, well that fact gives me pause to think any of those are Mueller related.

Without a doubt, exposure to the media is Mueller's biggest tool when it comes to anything investigating Trump because anyone knows Trump would be lambasted if he finds his personal driver guilty of drinking vodka while eating a Reuben with Russian dressing.

I do think there are more Clinton and U1 related stuff in a few.

benchmark said:

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aggiehawg said:

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All of these stories about sealed indictments could be unrelated to Horowitz's work, is my point.

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All valid points. Sealed, pending, or almost complete is my point. Formal OIG referrals aside and assuming there actually is a DOJ prosecutor, isn't it likely Horowitz would feed a DOJ prosecutor with requested intel .... and a DOJ prosecutor would feed Horowitz with (say) wiretap intel?

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Horowitz isn't investigating FISA abuse.

I guess you are assuming that a prosecutor has received credible evidence of crimes being committed from Horowitz and has applied to a court for a surveillance warrant on somebody or somebodies? That's possible I guess. But I wouldn't pin my hopes on it.


Unless there is a continuing conspiracy going on and they are still trying to see who all was involved. The main players have already been identified as far as Hillary's email investigation is concerned.

I started following Georg Webb a couple of months ago. Many of his tweets I don't comprehend (probably because I don't listen to his podcasts), but for some time he has been talking about a 'shared dropbox' used by the plotters at the FBI. I gather it must be a 'comm central' computer/server/file for special investigations that McCabe personally monitored & directed, Page coordinated, & which Strzok was a major contributor. If this is true, then I would assume that Horowitz's intel people likely infiltrated this 'dropbox' at some point, especially if there was a leaker/whistleblower from inside the team (such as Priestap as currently speculated).
Does anyone else follow Webb?

I stumbled upon Webb thru Jason Goodman's podcast, they have him on there from time to time. George is an interesting cat. I wondered at first if he was kin to that other Webb that somehow shot himself twice in the head. But George is an interesting dude. Kinda gets a little Alex Jonesish on occasion, but he is a ferret. He digs and digs, and throws a lot out and see what sticks. But he finds things too. He has a Youtube channel as well.

As far as those dropbox references, he does that a lot and it's likely spot on. Burner phones and off server emails that are more secure than gmail, and these dropbox accounts makes it easy to share files and not email them. Same for third party voicemail accounts like YouMail or something similar where they aren't allowing a carrier to a copy of voicemails. I think George uses dropbox like a slang for all of the above.

Roscow or aggiehawg...what does this relate to?

FireAg said:

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Roscow or aggiehawg...what does this relate to?

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Click Bait...

Not Roscoe or hawg, but I assume it is just another way for Mueller and the MSM to craft an "Obstruction of justice" narrative/case

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Click Bait...

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This.

Trump and Sessions were in a public snit over his recusal, if you recall. Sessions knew he had put Trump in a bad spot by not discussing it with him before his confirmation.

Why Mueller would GAS about it, I don't know.

FireAg said:

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Roscow or aggiehawg...what does this relate to?

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Quick read, essentially says Sessions was butthurt that Trump was mad at him for recusing from the Russia witch hunt and let Mueller get appointed as SC (or any SC). Sessions tried to resign and Trump didn't let him.

Okay...so nothing to see here...

The thing I personally am waiting for is the IG report. The Memo has me curious but the IG report is going to be what really shakes stuff up. Media will have no way to spin his findings, oh they will try but only in failure.

RoscoePColtrane said:

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The thing I personally am waiting for is the IG report. The Memo has me curious but the IG report is going to be what really shakes stuff up. Media will have no way to spin his findings, oh they will try but only in failure.

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And the expectation is that the memo and IG report pretty much line up with each other, correct?

FireAg said:

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RoscoePColtrane said:

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The thing I personally am waiting for is the IG report. The Memo has me curious but the IG report is going to be what really shakes stuff up. Media will have no way to spin his findings, oh they will try but only in failure.

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And the expectation is that the memo and IG report pretty much line up with each other, correct?

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That seems to be the premise.

FireAg said:

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RoscoePColtrane said:

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The thing I personally am waiting for is the IG report. The Memo has me curious but the IG report is going to be what really shakes stuff up. Media will have no way to spin his findings, oh they will try but only in failure.

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And the expectation is that the memo and IG report pretty much line up with each other, correct?

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Memo reportedly focuses on FISA. IG focuses on DOJ/FBI investigations. If I had to guess, what the memo covers would be a very small portion of the IG report.