600 pages?
Mueller dismisses top FBI agent in Russia probe for anti-Trump texts
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Last: 2 days ago by JFABNRGR
So Trump was right again - Enemy of the peopleMouthBQ98 said:
There's your 4th amendment protections being **** on by the DOJ.
And counting....
In other words, thanks for the immunity, but now I am going to completely blow apart my clients credibility to be used against his former client.Ellis Wyatt said:
When he says "I am not sure," he means, "My story was a complete fabrication."
That was my worst fear, that FISA procedures were being used on American citizens for criminal purposes and not counter-intelligence purposes.MouthBQ98 said:
There's your 4th amendment protections being **** on by the DOJ.
Some people might tend to view fruit of the poisonous tree as a "technicality" but it is the cornerstone of the Fourth Amendment.
When the government is allowed to manufacture evidence by circular sourcing to secure a secret Title I FISA warrant on American citizens, they are violating their Fourth Amendment rights and any evidence obtained thereby is inadmissible. Period.
As a corollary, if the FBI/DOJ want to include media reports in FISA apps (a practice that I view skeptically in the first place) some effort must be made to ascertain that the reporter's sources are different and also reliable. And those efforts stated clearly (not a footnote) within the application itself.
Of course I would prefer that FISA courts no longer accept media reports as corroboration at all. And they be eliminated from FISA procedures completely. Either FBI/DOJ have probable cause on their own or they don't.
The swamp is deeper than we thought. Remember this thread started with the text messages between Strzok and Page that IG Horowitz found. Everything else has unraveled from there.FriscoKid said:
600 pages?
We could reach 1000 pages easy.
I'd love to be a fly on wall during Bruce Oher hearings today.
Congrats again to those of you doing the hard work of keeping this thread relevant and informative. Given the last few years on this board, its a pretty big accomplishment.
I'm not convinced Ohr wasn't just a patsy go-between since counter-intel wasn't his job.Prognightmare said:
I'd love to be a fly on wall during Bruce Oher hearings today.
But he does have valuable information about just what was "the firewall" that Steele was so nervous about. Moreover, he will likely contradict a lot of Glenn Simpson's testimony under oath.
In my view, the person who holds the treasure trove of info is Judge Rosemary Collyer at FISC.
Who's side is she on?aggiehawg said:I'm not convinced Ohr wasn't just a patsy go-between since counter-intel wasn't his job.Prognightmare said:
I'd love to be a fly on wall during Bruce Oher hearings today.
But he does have valuable information about just what was "the firewall" that Steele was so nervous about. Moreover, he will likely contradict a lot of Glenn Simpson's testimony under oath.
In my view, the person who holds the treasure trove of info is Judge Rosemary Collyer at FISC.
Swamp creatureMooreTrucker said:Who's side is she on?aggiehawg said:I'm not convinced Ohr wasn't just a patsy go-between since counter-intel wasn't his job.Prognightmare said:
I'd love to be a fly on wall during Bruce Oher hearings today.
But he does have valuable information about just what was "the firewall" that Steele was so nervous about. Moreover, he will likely contradict a lot of Glenn Simpson's testimony under oath.
In my view, the person who holds the treasure trove of info is Judge Rosemary Collyer at FISC.
Not what I wanted to see....
Just my assumption.
Hopefully, the law's. As the Supervising Judge for the FISA courts she has access to every application and order filed against American citizens. In light of the testimony of FBI agent Moffa that they routinely used leaks to provide circular sourcing as a pretext to secure warrants (IOW defrauding the FISA courts, her court) I would hope that she is diving into those apps to see how widespread that practice really was.MooreTrucker said:Who's side is she on?aggiehawg said:I'm not convinced Ohr wasn't just a patsy go-between since counter-intel wasn't his job.Prognightmare said:
I'd love to be a fly on wall during Bruce Oher hearings today.
But he does have valuable information about just what was "the firewall" that Steele was so nervous about. Moreover, he will likely contradict a lot of Glenn Simpson's testimony under oath.
In my view, the person who holds the treasure trove of info is Judge Rosemary Collyer at FISC.
ETA: Or that Chief Justice Roberts orders such a review himself.
Hands down my favorite thread - I check it daily. Thank you to all those who contribute to help others understand what is going on.
Why am I only reading about this circular sourcing issue here?
This would seem to be a pretty big f'ing deal.
This would seem to be a pretty big f'ing deal.
I venture to say that the average schmoe wouldn't even understand what "circular sourcing" is, much less what it means in all of this.Wildcat said:
Why am I only reading about this circular sourcing issue here?
This would seem to be a pretty big f'ing deal.
It was discussed a lot when the Carter Page FISA app was released. But an FBI agent told Meadow's committee last Friday that Page's FISA warrant wasn't a one off. They did it much more often.Wildcat said:
Why am I only reading about this circular sourcing issue here?
This would seem to be a pretty big f'ing deal.
So, it's back in the news.
Is circular sourcing by FBI and DOJ similar to planting guns on criminals by local LEO?
Are both criminal offenses?
Are both criminal offenses?
Not really. Using circular sourcing in FISA warrant apps are defrauding a federal court and a civil rights violation.VaultingChemist said:
Is circular sourcing by FBI and DOJ similar to planting guns on criminals by local LEO?
Are both criminal offenses?
But I can see how you view both as "planting evidence."
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Conceptually, the analogy makes sense.VaultingChemist said:
Is circular sourcing by FBI and DOJ similar to planting guns on criminals by local LEO?
Are both criminal offenses?
The more interesting question is whether information leaked to the press is accurate, how it was obtained, etc.
It could be accurate information insofar as the FBI found it in an investigation and did not fabricate it, but if they cannot corroborate it, they cannot present it to a FISA court. So, they leak it to the press, who reports it, then the FBI uses that "independent" reporting as corroboration for the single source evidence they have, and deceive the court in doing so. They use single source uncorroborated information and present it as corroborated multiple source information with this deceptive practice.
The FISA process ostensibly exists to protect the fourth Amendment rights of Americans, and breaking its strict process rules and deceiving the courts then becomes a serious 4th amendment civil rights violation by the FBI.
People doing this should be subject to criminal charges IMHO.
The FISA process ostensibly exists to protect the fourth Amendment rights of Americans, and breaking its strict process rules and deceiving the courts then becomes a serious 4th amendment civil rights violation by the FBI.
People doing this should be subject to criminal charges IMHO.
I clearly seem to remember someone saying "salaciuos and unverfied".
Oh yes, it was that paragon of virtue James Comey.
Oh yes, it was that paragon of virtue James Comey.
Among the latter, under pretence of governing they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves and sheep.”
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Carrington, January 16, 1787
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Carrington, January 16, 1787
Didn't Moffa just testify last Friday about this, behind closed doors before the House Judiciary Committee and House Oversight Committee? It's been long speculated that this was going on, but Moffa cemented that this wasn't just an isolated incident, but appeared that they did it quite a bit. Like Dixie said using media period in an a secret hearing should be illegal.
Never take a hostage you aren't willing to shoot,
Remember, America doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.
Code 7 10-42
Remember, America doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.
Code 7 10-42
Is there a chance this is why the Flynn case is on pause? Mueller knows the gig is up when the Flynn defense team gets their chance in court?
Hillary paid for warrant to spy on Trump.
Flynn hasn't really been pushing it. The delays seem to be mutually agreed upon.FriscoKid said:
Is there a chance this is why the Flynn case is on pause? Mueller knows the gig is up when the Flynn defense team gets their chance in court?
Have you thought about why that may be?
TurkeyBaconLeg said:Flynn hasn't really been pushing it. The delays seem to be mutually agreed upon.FriscoKid said:
Is there a chance this is why the Flynn case is on pause? Mueller knows the gig is up when the Flynn defense team gets their chance in court?
Have you thought about why that may be?
Unintentional flag. Sorry.
Potential issue in the Flynn case is the 302 done by Strzok, not the dossier.
I knew Ohr would contradict Simpson but was surprised he contradicted Page. I was only aware of the one meeting between Ohr, Strzok, Page and Pienta.drcrinum said:
I wouldn't trust Glenn Simpson in the slightest. For instance, he claimed he didn't know anything about the Trump Tower meeting, even though he had dinner with Veselnitskaya both the day before and the day after the meeting.
https://dailycaller.com/2018/08/27/source-fbi-congress-leaked-stories-spy-warrants/
Quote:
FBI official disputed the claims about Moffa's testimony, and TheDCNF's source is acknowledging that he did not explicitly say that the FBI has leaked information to the press that is later used to obtain FISAs.
The initial claims about Moffa's testimony are "just not true," the FBI official told TheDCNF.
Meadows clarified his comments in a statement to TheDCNF.
"Jonathan Moffa made it clear to the committee the FBI routinely uses media reports to corroborate analytic work product," he said.
"We have emails and texts plainly showing the FBI leaks to the media, raising major red flags. If FBI executives want the American people to believe they haven't used leaks to their advantage, they are not being honest."
TheDCNF's source cited an internal "miscommunication" regarding statements about Moffa's testimony.
"Moffa's admission that the FBI regularly uses media reports to corroborate their own work products is a huge admission given what we know about the FBI's incredible culture of leaking for their own purposes. He never explicitly said: 'we use our own leaks.' Frankly, he doesn't have to."
Never take a hostage you aren't willing to shoot,
Remember, America doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.
Code 7 10-42
Remember, America doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.
Code 7 10-42
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