It costs money to fly somewhere and find shelter, eat and drink, transportation, etc.

I am thankful that I have a job which affords me the ability to serve through donations to my friends who serve to spread the Good News of the Gospel. None of them are doing it to make money. They are going to serve.

You want to believe that only the LDS is doing this, but it simply isnt true. It is happening all over the place. I could continue telling you stories and my friends and family's mission trips for days. None were paid to do so, infact most went at great financial expense.

Just my small group of friends includes mission trips to Thailand, Mexico, Canada, Russia, Chile, Argentina, Singapore, Japan, China, Malaysia, Laos, Afghanistan, Nicaragua, Honduras, Austria, Guatamaela, Brazil, West Africa, and I am sure others. That is just in my small group of friends in the last couple years.


Mission trips arent exclusive to the LDS.

Pocketrocket06 -No, I never said anything close to that. The youg men who go on 24 mo. missions and the young women who go for 18 mos. pay all of their own expenses (many of whom have parental support) Our grand children (not unique, I assure you) have each started their own missionary fund and part of the money they get as gifts, earnings, etc. they put in their missionary fund. This does not take the place of tithing. The Church Provides them a plane ticke from the MTC to the destination and when they finish. Sr. missionary couples who serve from 1-2 years pay all of their own expenses.

But didn't you write something awhile back about how the bikes missionaries have are provided by the church and that some missionaries with larger service areas are provided cars? I could have sworn you wrote this.

Also, I applaud/abhor the way in which the LDS church sends so many out on mission for significant amounts of time. I think more churches would benefit greatly from following this model but I hate the amount of flase doctrine spread by it.

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The Church Provides them a plane ticke from the MTC to the destination and when they finish.

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That's more than what I received.

pocketrocket06 -Yes, the Church does provide the bikes and a small number that get cars who have to cover either very large geographical areas or are in leadership roles and are assisting in the training process. I would totally agree if it was false doctrine they were teach. i think the number is back over 53,000. An amazing number to leave friends, family, education and careers to serve and teach.

Soup- And how long were you gone?

OK, so now its gone from unpaid to "well, they do get some support" which definitely counts as compensation from the church since they would have had to pay for those things some other way.

We're now arguing over degree rather than the overall correctness of paying people in ecclesiastical positions. If that is the case, then you're really not that much different from a lot of Protestant churches. The Quakers don't pay their ministers (in fact they don't even really have any). Lots of smaller non-denominational churches have pastors who work non-ecclesiastical jobs to support themselves and their families. Same thing for small rural or mission Baptist churches. If the person is doing full-time ministry (40+ hours a week) why is it so wrong that they paid? Is not the worker worthy of his wages?

I was there for a summer and came back when I almost died, getting a viral and parasitic infection and losing about 50 lbs in 3 weeks. I got to come back and have part of my colon removed.

Since your other points are worthless, are you going to try to argue that lds is greater bc 2 years is more?

My 15 friends going to Chile for a 10 year mission - are they somehow better for serving 5x longer thn lds missionries? You are so predictable, its hilarious.

Soup -how are your friends going to support themselves for 10 years?

Pocketrocket06 -did you forget the scripture where Paul declares that he might make the Gospel of Christ "without charge" so that he would not "abuse" his power in the Gospel.

I honestly don't know. It isn't really my place to ask them personal finance questions.

Did you two hear that the Trinity Baptist preacher retired?

but you ignored my question entirely.

are they better than lds missionries because they are serving longer

it funny - your two biggest concerns always seem to be how the lds is perceived and money

Soup -sorry, I missed that part. Only the Lord can judge the "value" of anyones service. I sure wouldn't. I would suggest that 2 years with no family or friends is a greater sacrifice than a summer. Ten years of service with your family is laudable but you still have your family with you.

it is unnecessry to leave family behind to be a missionary

unnecessary sacrifice may be courageous but not always intelligent

When one's family is left behind, the sole focus of every waking moment is on service to the Lord and his children. There is NO competing stimuli.

[This message has been edited by ibmagg (edited 5/11/2006 7:43p).]

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There is NO competing stimuli.

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I have known many missionaries whose wives and children had a bigger impact in the field than the "official" missionary.

there are always all kinds of competing stimuli

the world is full of stimuli

emailing or calling home or updating blog for those praying from you doesn't necessarily break your focus and quite possibly cn serve to focus you more

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When one's family is left behind, the sole focus of every waking moment is on service to the Lords and his children. There is NO competing stimuli.

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This logic seems to contradict the Mormon concept of Eternal Families.

Will your family distract you in heaven from devotion to Almighty God??

Then your family also would not distract you from a mission.

On a similar note, I will be with my family for eternity - because we are all Christians. We will all be together in heaven with the Lord of Glory.

Guys - You just don't get it do you. The ibm way is always better. As soon as you accept this the more prosperous and 'white and delightsome' you will become.

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On a similar note, I will be with my family for eternity - because we are all Christians. We will all be together in heaven with the Lord of Glory.

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This points out a very basic difference. Christians want to spend eternity with God. Mormons want to become god.

Sid -that is a nice thought and I am sure that you wish it to be true. But show me the scriptural basis on which you come to this conclusion. Only the power of the priesthood (as recorded in the New Testament -and not the phony "priesthood of the believer" makes that possible. Neither you nor your church posses it.

Rab -It has to be hard to go through life with out ears or understanding. We desire above all to be with God, our heavenly father in heaven, with our families and to be LIKE him. We will never take his place, like your son (if you have one) will take your place. If you have a son, he may become "like" you and inherit all that you have (and you hope the good without the bad) but we die and our posterity is left behind. That is not the way it works after the resurrection.

What in the world are you talking about, ibmagg? Perhaps the best place for you to start is the Gospel of John.

Psalm 113:5: Who is like the LORD our God, who is seated on high,

Answer - No one...

Wrong again TexAg73 -Try Elohim or God, the Father of jesus Christ.

Sid -Let's see if we can reach common ground. What do you think it means to be a "joint-heir" with Christ and to "inherit ALL that he Father has'? After you answwer that i think we can begin to slog our way through. these are the same kind of questions that I had for the missionaries so i know what you are probably think and/or coming from. My baptist training and education by Dr. Arthur Smith at the Texas A&M Baptist Institute of Religion had not prepared me for what I was to learn!

Ibm - God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are all the same being, and they are all addressed as Lord.

So, you are wrong again if you try to differentiate them as not being the same. have you never read John 10:30?

Texasag73 -I suggest that you study the scriptures. This is where so many of you err as you are following the Niceene creed that describes a God that does NOT exist and has NEVER existed. They are not one and the same. The only things that they are "ONE" in, is in "purpose" -to bring about the immortality and eternal life of man". When Christ prayed that the Apostles might be "one" even has he and his Father were one, he did not mean for the Apostles to come together in one big blob! He wanted them to be united in purpose that I just told you about!

You are lost, ibmagg, and I certainly won't debate my salvation with you.

You may think you need Joseph Smith, but Jesus Christ is enough for me. He was good enough for Peter and John, and He is good enough for me!

Sid -I would agree IF you had Jesus Christ. I was not aware I was debating your salvation with you. You obviously don't know or understand the scriptures nor do you want to understand that Joseph Smith is not necessary to our salvation any more than any of God's Prophets in the past. It is just that he is the Prophet of the Restoration; He did all the heavy lifting under God and Christ's direction and we revere him for the incredible work that he did under such harsh and unrelenting persecution. We love him, but we don't worship him. That is what you can't seem to get your arms around or you just don't want to understand.

Are you telling me that I don't have Jesus Christ?! Wow! You are something else.......

*geesh*

No more so than you telling me that I am lost. I would never make that "judgement" about you. I am saying the Jesus Christ that you worship-a product of the Niceene Conference -has never and does not exist.