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DualAg -Do you KNOW who the Osterlings [sic] are? They are not friends of the Church.
Well, excuse me for not relying on "friends of the church" for my history. Should I always go to faithful Catholic historians for the histories of the Pope, or to born-again faculty members at Liberty University for the history of Evangelical Christians? For that matter, is it necessary to consult with a patriotic German when I want to read about the history of the Third Reich?
Yes, I know who the Ostlings are. Richard N. Ostling is a well-respected religion writer for the Associated Press. He's a former
Time Magazine correspondent who wrote 23 cover stories, and has also covered religious subjects for CBS Radio and the
Newshour with Jim Lehrer on PBS.
Joan K. Ostling teaches English and Journalism. She's also a former writer and editor for the U.S. Information Agency, and a freelance newspaper writer and editor. They are well-respected within their profession.
They are not Evangelicals trying to convert Mormons. They wrote a very evenhanded book. You should pick up a copy.
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Outside of two of Joseph's loyal friends who are the only ones who were there that survived the attack, what was the coded masonic pleas for help?
Joseph was trying to use the coded Masonic plea for help from unknown Freemasons in the crowd: "Oh, Lord, my God. Is there no help for the widow's son." Unfortunately, he was gunned down before he could complete the second sentence.
Maybe this isn't so unbelievable if you'll read the passage on Freemasonry in the
Encyclopedia of Latter-day Saint History, published in the year 2000 by Desert Book--a project of three BYU professors.
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In the early summer of 1841, the Masonic order in Illinois granted dispensation for the Saints to establish a lodge in Nauvoo. Within a few months, more than 1,500 Latter-day Saint men, including Joseph Smith, had been initiated into lodges in Nauvoo and Iowa. There were more Latter-day Saint Masons than there were non-LDS Masons in all the other Illinois lodges combined (p. 718).
Is it unbelievable to you that when Joseph Smith faced the barrel of his assassins' guns he would utter a coded call for help from any other Masons who happened to be nearby?
BTW, have you ever wondered about the genesis of your temple endowment ceremony, especially the part at which the candidate for endowment stands at the veil and talks to God through the curtain? That's unadulterated Freemasonry, so much so that, according to the most recently cited source, the Masons later took umbrage and withdrew all recognition of LDS lodges. The Mormons' sin: They admitted women to the temple!
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Do you really believe that Joseph went around propositioning the wives of his followers and could have expected anyone to have remained with him?
Yep. You'd be surprised what a prophet of God can get away with.
In 1997 Todd Compton published
In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith. Of the thirty-three plural wives of Joseph he documented, there were at least 11 polyandrous unions in which Joseph's new wife was already married to another man, without a divorce having taken place. In addition, Joseph married four sister pairs and one mother-daughter pair. Compton says that in at least eight of these circumstances, the original husbands stood as witnesses for the sealing to Joseph. Some continued to live with their original husbands, but also visited Joseph. As the Ostlings state, Jospeh often used such a proposal as a loyalty test, asking close friends for their wives and daughters.
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If you are willing to make the effort, you can find out for yourself why Law was excommunicated. (hint -he couldn't keep his pants buttoned)
It sounds like Joseph couldn't either! The Church-approved
Encyclopedia of Mormonism says that Joseph took at least 28 plural wives. D. Michael Quinn's research reveals 48. Fawn Brodie, author of the Joseph Smith biography that got her excommunicated,
No Man Knows My History, also lists 48.
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He was in jail for his religious beliefs, the destruction of the press being the latest pretext. Many presses had been destroyed in Ill. without this kind of an action.
What kind of logic is this? Many people had been murdered and raped in Illinois without any kind of punishment. However, the state did have jails where they put lawbreakers like Joseph Smith when they were caught.
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He volutarily turned himself in after he had left the US and in legal jurisdiction.
If I commit a crime and flee to Mexico, should I receive accolades, or at least consideration for sentencing mitigation, if I come back voluntarily? So what? He turned himself in to face the charges. It wasn't a capital crime, and he shouldn't have been murdered, but he was in jail on legitimate charges.
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That was not a group of legal authorities who murdered him, but a group of "christians" who were so proud of their intended act that they came with faces painted black so that they could not be recognized.
Nobody is defending the mob's action. They all should have been held accountable at the bar of justice.
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Joseph felt that it was within his authority to close it down because of the danger it represented to peace and good order within the community.
Who had the political power in Nauvoo? If the rival newspaper was indeed a danger to peace and order in the community, why not go through the city fathers, whom he controlled, and have it shut down legally?
Why send a mob in the dead of night to break in, smash the press to pieces, and destroy all stored printed copies?
[This message has been edited by DualAG (edited 4/24/2006 8:36p).]
