The pastor of the "largest Church in America" afraid to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ and in the process muddies the spiritual waters.

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KING: Because we've had ministers on who said, your record don't count. You either believe in Christ or you don't. If you believe in Christ, you are, you are going to heaven. And if you don't no matter what you've done in your life, you ain't. OSTEEN: Yeah, I don't know. There's probably a balance between. I believe you have to know Christ. But I think that if you know Christ, if you're a believer in God, you're going to have some good works. I think it's a cop-out to say I'm a Christian but I don't ever do anything ... KING: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all? OSTEEN: You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know ... KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they? OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God will judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus. .... CALLER: Hello, Larry. You're the best, and thank you, Joe -- Joel -- for your positive messages and your book. I'm wondering, though, why you side-stepped Larry's earlier question about how we get to heaven? The bible clearly tells us that Jesus is the way, the truth and the light and the only way to the father is through him. That's not really a message of condemnation but of truth. OSTEEN: Yes, I would agree with her. I believe that... KING: So then a Jew is not going to heaven? OSTEEN: No. Here's my thing, Larry, is I can't judge somebody's heart. You know? Only god can look at somebody's heart, and so -- I don't know. To me, it's not my business to say, you know, this one is or this one isn't. I just say, here's what the bible teaches and I'm going to put my faith in Christ. And I just I think it's wrong when you go around saying, you're saying you're not going, you're not going, you're not going, because it's not exactly my way. I'm just... KING: But you believe your way. OSTEEN: I believe my way. I believe my way with all my heart. KING: But for someone who doesn't share it is wrong, isn't he? OSTEEN: Well, yes. Well, I don't know if I look at it like that. I would present my way, but I'm just going to let god be the judge of that. I don't know. I don't know. KING: So you make no judgment on anyone? OSTEEN: No. But I... KING: What about atheists? OSTEEN: You know what, I'm going to let someone -- I'm going to let god be the judge of who goes to heaven and hell. I just -- again, I present the truth, and I say it every week. You know, I believe it's a relationship with Jesus. But you know what? I'm not going to go around telling everybody else if they don't want to believe that that's going to be their choice. God's got to look at your own heart. God's got to look at your heart, and only god knows that. KING: You believe there's a place called heaven? OSTEEN: I believe there is. Yes. You know, you've had a lot of the near-death experiences and things like that. Some of that is very, to me, not that you need that as proof, but it shows you these little kids seeing the angels and things like that.

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He is, however, a handsome and well-spoken man. And so very nice.

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The pastor of the "largest Church in America" afraid to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ and in the process muddies the spiritual waters.

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He said he is not going to judge another man's heart.

Raj - true, but IMO, he should have simply proclaimed that 'based on my faith, the only way to Heaven is through belief our risen savior, Jesus Christ.' From what was posted, it looks like he's afraid to stand up for what he says he believes and doesn't want to offend anybody for answering the question Larry King asked.

It really is a very simple answer to a simple question. He just didn't seem to want to answer it.

He does say that.

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You know what, I'm going to let someone -- I'm going to let god be the judge of who goes to heaven and hell. I just -- again, I present the truth, and I say it every week. You know, I believe it's a relationship with Jesus. But you know what? I'm not going to go around telling everybody else if they don't want to believe that that's going to be their choice. God's got to look at your own heart. God's got to look at your heart, and only god knows that.

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Raj, you are confusing two different concepts. Only God knows a person's heart. That is true. However, based on what God said in scripture, there is only one way to heaven, that is by putting faith in Jesus Christ. So to the question, "Will Jews go hell?" The answer is, "If they put their trust in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of their sins, then God will forgive their sins and grant them entry into heaven. If they do not receive Jesus, there is no other means by which they can have their sins forgiven." Now whether or not a person has actually put their trust in Jesus can only be known for sure by God and the person in question.

I am not confusing anything.

Joel is proclaiming the gospel. He's just not going to judge anyone.

Did you catch this in the interview.

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I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.

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Inquisitive person: Hey joel, I am considering becoming a christian. Will I not go to heaven if I don't believe in Jesus Christ as my savior. Joel: Well son, I just don't know. I mean you are a really good guy and sincere and all. So I can't say.


Ok, so inquisitive person then takes what joel said to mean he has a chance of going to heaven without christ. Now just how much is joel doing to get the truth of the gospel out?

He should not dis people for having differing beliefs. However, he either needs to say what he believes or just deny That Christ is the way. He sounded like a politician lobbying for votes. Heck, he sounded like john kerry in one of those debates. He never really said anything, but did his best not to offend anyone.

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Inquisitive person: Hey joel, I am considering becoming a christian. Will I not go to heaven if I don't believe in Jesus Christ as my savior. Joel: Well son, I just don't know. I mean you are a really good guy and sincere and all. So I can't say.

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judging from what's posted of the interview, I think Joel's response would be:

"That's not for me to decide. God will see in your heart whether you go or not. For me, its about a relationship with Jesus."

I'm with Raj on this one. Its clear that King was trying to paint Osteen into some corner here and he was just careful with his answer while proclaiming the truth at the same time.


I get a kick out of the recent Osteen bashing and his "unperfect" way of preaching. When my witnessing (or witness) gets close to "leading" as many people to Christ as Osteen does, then I will throw a few stones. Until then, I'll commend the man on the job he does for the Lord.

I will say that he isnt a favorite speaker of mine though..

It seems like you guys are looking for a specific answer without hearing what he is saying.

"If you don't believe in Jesus, you will burn in hell."

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When my witnessing (or witness) gets close to "leading" as many people to Christ as Osteen does

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Is he preaching a Gospel of, "Come to the Master," or, "Come to the Master for what's on the Master's table?"

Aggie Fanatic stole my thunder a bit. Joel is popular because he preaches a "feel" good message full of sunshine, prosperity and postive affirmations, and he does it to the exclusion of plainly stating the truth about who Christ is and how and why one can be saved.

I caught his appearance on Larry King and feel bad for anyone who relies on him for any solid, serious biblical teaching. The problem with Joel on Larry's show is he had an opportunity to clearly present the gospel of Christ and chose to "sugar" coat anything he did say, thus making his message unclear. If I were a seeker, I would have taken from his comments that my sincere heart was more important than knowing Christ.

II Tim 4:3-4 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears, and they shall turn their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."

Joel thinks things are not getting worse because he heads up a growing church. He heads up a growing church, full of those who like having their ears tickled. As far as the great things his congregation does with all of the money, I applaud them, but any Christian worth his salt has to be disappointed that someone who is seen as a spokesmen for Christianity basically chickened out on saying Jesus is the only way to heaven.

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If I were a seeker, I would have taken from his comments that my sincere heart was more important than knowing Christ.

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After knowing God, you should have a sincere heart.

How many sincere moments or thoughts do you truly have each day?

Isn't it that time when God is with you?

In the same interview he said he "doesn't go there" with regards to abortion and homosexuality.

reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering

Isn't that how we are told to preach. This man is so popular because he doesn't offend anyone. If he did then he wouldn't be raking it in. Like any good marketer he is making his clients feel good.

I'll never view him the same after seeing the advertisement for his book. He didn't want anyone to know (who didn't already know) that he was a preacher. The ad calls him an "inspirational speaker". If it said he was a preacher it would turn off those who wouldn't normally read a preachers book.

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CALLER: Hello, Larry. You're the best, and thank you, Joe -- Joel -- for your positive messages and your book. I'm wondering, though, why you side-stepped Larry's earlier question about how we get to heaven? The bible clearly tells us that Jesus is the way, the truth and the light and the only way to the father is through him. That's not really a message of condemnation but of truth. OSTEEN: Yes, I would agree with her. I believe that...

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Oh ok Joe the only to heaven is through Christ.

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KING: So then a Jew is not going to heaven? OSTEEN: No.

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Come on Joe which is it?

Raj says,

"After knowing God, you should have a sincere heart."

Raj, you cannot come to the Father without faith in Christ. You can be sincere in belief and be sincerely wrong. Joel should have pointed this out instead of backpedalling into a defensive mode of "I don't judge anyone's heart". I don't judge anyone's heart either, but if the bible is the word of God, then I can quite clearly read and understand the implications of what Jesus says.

Jesus said, if you believe not that I am He, ye shall die in your sins. (John 8:24)

Jesus said those who attempt to come to God in any other way are thiefs and robbers. (See John 10)

Jesus clearly said many times, He was God in flesh, and that He was the way of truth and salvation. No one knows the Father without knowing the Son.

Anyone with a seventh grade education can read much of the new testament and see that Jesus sets Himself apart from other religions. Why do you think people get so upset when Christians say Jesus is the only way.

If you believe Jesus is the only way and are asked a direct question about salvation, you might actually upset someone with a truthful answer. That is what is disappointing to me about Joel's responses on the Larry King show. He was more concerned with the perception of his answer than simply stating the truth of what he believes. If you saw the interview as I did and did not draw this conclusion, you are just being intellectually dishonest with yourself and me.

Regarding Jews being saved, recommend everyone read Romans chapter 11.

The "good thief" on the cross was saved at the last minute after coming to Jesus. The same could happen to Jews, atheists, Hindus, Buddhists, etc., on their deathbed. Only God knows if they have truly accepted His Son as the Messiah or not.

Yes....he is very handsome and delivers a slick, packaged, upbeat message. However, he is a modern day false prophet.

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modern day false prophet

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I'm not aware of any prophecies he has made. I would call him a false teacher, not a false prophet. Let's be fair to the man.

Theif on the cross... That incident was in the old law was it not. The law of Christ was not in effect until he died on the cross. Just because it's in the new testament doesn't mean it is a part of the New will of God.

Jews reject Christ -- some say he was just a good man. Not accepting him as who he is (the son of God -- the Messiah) is rejecting him. I don't say it -- God says.

73 -- does this leave anything to doubt:

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John 8:24 -- unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.

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I believe it because Christ said it. I have no other reason to believe it other than that. Why would I want to believe it. I have family who don't believe. However, that doesn't change the fact.




[This message has been edited by 77 (edited 6/24/2005 10:08p).]

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John 8:24 -- unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.

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77 - We are in violent agreement..My point is that this could happen just before you die, like what happened to the "good thief"....God's mercy knows no timetable.

The parable of the workers in the vineyard all getting paid the same wages comes to mind...

Well of course that's true. Someone who becomes a Christian when they are 91 years old has the same right to be in heaven as someone who has had faith in Christ since 15 etc...

In fact an interesting story I have been told that is accurate is that Jeffrey Dahmer believed the gospel before he died. If true -- all the evil things he did have been wiped away, and has EVERY right that God gives him to be in heaven.

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I would call him a false teacher, not a false prophet. Let's be fair to the man.

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Why would you call him a false teacher?

Just because he won't condemn non-christians to hell?

When an evangelist preaches against sin it is not the evangelist that judges/condemns -- IT IS THE WORD OF GOD!

If I said "unless you believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, you will die in your sins" -- am I judging? No I am not judging the word of God is judging -- you will find that exactly in John 8:24. If it comes from the word of God it's not judging. If it comes from man then it is judging.

Hey, all those of you who play the "judge not, lest ye be judged" card, I suggest that you invest in a cheap paperback concordance and actually take the time, yes, it will take time, you will not be able to depend on your preacher or local teacher you to tell you this, and look up "judge," "judging," and other concepts that are close, and actually find out what the entire Word says about that judgment issue.

Trotting out this " I can't judge someones' heart," stuff is basically organic fertalizer.

If you think I sounded judgmental, you are correct, and when I tell you that you have grown in the Lord and are a blessing to me that is also judgmental. We are just "blessed" and OK with a stroke, but tell me something I don't like, and, hey, "judge not, lest ye be judged."

[This message has been edited by The Lone Stranger (edited 6/25/2005 2:48p).]

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judging from what's posted of the interview, I think Joel's response would be:

"That's not for me to decide. God will see in your heart whether you go or not. For me, its about a relationship with Jesus."

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Raj95,

If you are going to be honest with yourself you know that to be a Christian means one believes that the only way to the father is through the son. The son is Jesus Christ. Raj, I assume you know that Joel says he is a Christian. So then he has to believe what Christ taught about salvation. Wouldn't you agree? If he does not, then he is not a Christian. And to be honest, I have no problem with him not being a Christian, if he admits that he is not. However, when he says he is, then leads people to believe that belief in salvation through Christ is not necessary to make it to heaven/the father, I have a problem. If you cannot see where the problem is here then you are blinded by some agenda. Your arguments supporting Joel are disingenuous and have not basis other than being a "feel good" way of looking at "making it to heaven."

I understand that there are many different views on God and salvation. However, most of those views have a core which, if you do not believe them, you really are not a believer in that view. Rather you are just a bystander wannabe. Joel gave the impression that he may not necessarily believe that people need to believe in who Christ is and what he did to be saved. If that is true then he is not a Christian, plain and simple. Let me clarify for you raj before you twist what I said. I am only stating that a belief in Christ is essential to being a Christian. I am not saying I know what is in Joel's heart. Now if it is true that Joel does not believe that Christ is the way, the only way, he needs to stop saying he is a Christian. He either believes what Christ taught, or he does not. There is no middle ground. To be in the middle is to not believe. It would be like a muslim saying they are muslim but believing you have to believe that Jesus is the only way to the father. You can't have it both ways.

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Why would you call him a false teacher?

Just because he won't condemn non-christians to hell?

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You are correct Raj, it is not for Joel to decide who goes to heaven. In fact, nobody here has said that is what he is doing. So it is very confusing as to why you get so defensive by continually saying this. However, Christ told his disciples to go to all the world and preach the gospel. Part of that gospel includes the fact that Christ said you can only get to the father through him. By preaching this, Joel is not deciding anything about who is saved and who is not, he is only obeying his master by stating what being a Christian means. However, when Joel changes what the gospel says when he preaches or gives interviews, he is becoming very luke warm in regards to the truth about the gospel of Christ. And honestly, if you don't believe that knowing Christ as your savior is necessary for joe blow to get to heaven, then you really don't think it would be necessary for yourself.

Raj, you have no basis to stand on in your arguments. All you are doing is pulling a bunch of quotes out and making irrelevant comments. The truth is that if Joel is a Christian then he believes that the only way to the father for any person is through the son, Jesus Christ. Jesus did not teach that it could be different for each person. He said that he is the only way. If you have a problem with what Jesus taught then say you have a problem with what Jesus taught. It is just a matter of believing Christ's teachings or not. But stop trying to say make it seem like we are saying things that we are not saying. It only makes your arguments that much more ridiculous.

He said that he believes God will judge everyone's heart at the end of times. Perhaps he also means that God will judge whether you accepted Christ or not. Why is it his decision all of a sudden to say whether or not people are going to heaven or hell. How many people would he save telling them theyre doomed to hell. Ive found that that approach tends to only push people further.

It seems to me he is saying love your fellow man instead of hop on the wagon or we'll see ya in hell. I'd say his strategy is very effective.

That is not the point.

If I say a homosexual will not inherit the kingdom of God -- I am not judging -- I am preaching the word of God. (I Cor 6:9-11)

See the difference. That is what we are talking about.

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Why is it his decision all of a sudden to say whether or not people are going to heaven or hell. How many people would he save telling them theyre doomed to hell. Ive found that that approach tends to only push people further.

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corpsguy05, do you believe what Jesus said about himself? If you do then you should have no problem with a preacher saying what jesus taught. In fact, you should want the preacher to teach exactly what Jesus taught and nothing else. Now if you don't believe what Jesus taught then I can see how you would say what you said as it really would not matter to you whether somebody knew the truth about being a Christian or not. So, which is it you believe?

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It seems to me he is saying love your fellow man instead of hop on the wagon or we'll see ya in hell. I'd say his strategy is very effective.

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Not sure where you got that. You would have to be pretty insecure to come up with that after all that has been said on this thread. So again I ask you, do you believe what Jesus said about salvation or not? If you don't then you should not be concerned about this at all. If you do then you are purposely misleading people about salvation in a need you would have to not offend them.

Once again I will point out that nobody here has done what you are saying. We are not condemning anybody to hell or heaven. We are only repeating what Jesus taught. If you believe in him you are saved by his blood, if you don't then you are not. Why does that bother you so much, especially if you don't believe it?

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Why is it his decision all of a sudden to say whether or not people are going to heaven or hell. How many people would he save telling them theyre doomed to hell. Ive found that that approach tends to only push people further

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This is a false dichotomy. There shouldn't be an "either/or" here. A good preacher should preach both - Choose God now and live happily forever with Him in heaven, or reject God now and go to hell forever. The bible preaches both, so I'm not sure why preachers hesitate to do so.

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Not sure where you got that. You would have to be pretty insecure to come up with that after all that has been said on this thread. So again I ask you, do you believe what Jesus said about salvation or not? If you don't then you should not be concerned about this at all. If you do then you are purposely misleading people about salvation in a need you would have to not offend them.

Once again I will point out that nobody here has done what you are saying. We are not condemning anybody to hell or heaven. We are only repeating what Jesus taught. If you believe in him you are saved by his blood, if you don't then you are not. Why does that bother you so much, especially if you don't believe it?

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Holy crap what Church do you go to? They should be arrested for brain washing.

BaronVonAggie,

Too general, and over the top... You should address specific things, and not just condemn him in that way... What you did did not seem in love.

[This message has been edited by Notafraid (edited 6/26/2005 9:59p).]

WOW. I'm glad this was thread was started. My wife and I wanted to go to his church as we were in Houston visiting family.
He sure does sound wishy-washy.
Now I'm staying clear of his church.

Billy Graham would have never back pedaled on any of those questions from Larry King.
Billy Graham always told people about the salvation of Jesus Christ. I've heard countless times Mr. Graham state simply only those who put their faith in Him and had a relationship with Him would go to Heaven.

It sounds like Olsteen is adding some portion of good works and good deeds into the mix.

Regarding he and his father visiting India.

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I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. They love God.

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What God? Not the God I worship. You can be sincere, and be sincerely wrong.

I'm saving this interview script and I plan to show it next time someone brings up his book or his church. What a shame.