So I'm guessing this Christmas show is a big fundraiser for the church? No idea how much tickets were, but I gotta admit this is - well, I don't have words. What would Jesus think?

I would assume this is not the Sunday service but a special event type show that they put on during Christmas.

Which is why I called it a Christmas show. It's not their service.

I sure would like to know how much tickets were.

Perusing the channel shows some other similar productions but with more traditional Christmas music. Has some 2023 stuff too.

I looked it up, it's a Christmas show they put on every year. It looks like it draws lots of criticism for being over the top, especially from Texas newspapers.

Things like this are always easy targets for criticism but I don't think it's something that bothers me. It's a side event from the weekly service, I'm sure many families enjoy it and it's probably clean and wholesome.

Curious if the gospel message is given?

10andBOUNCE said:

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Curious if the gospel message is given?

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The Gospel being that Jesus died for all mankind's sin? And rose from the dead as the first fruits of eternal life for all who believe on Him for salvation?

Or should they say the Gospel is Jesus died only for the "elect"?

Huge difference.

Either one?

10andBOUNCE said:

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Either one?

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Both can not be true.

At the heart of this production will be the simple story of Christmasthe manger, shepherds, Joseph and Mary, the Christ childand the glorious hope we have in our Savior

This is from their website.

I don't think they are going to explain the doctrine of justification through faith during it.

Frok said:

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At the heart of this production will be the simple story of Christmasthe manger, shepherds, Joseph and Mary, the Christ childand the glorious hope we have in our Savior

This is from their website.

I don't think they are going to explain the doctrine of justification through faith during it.

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But then there is Santa…? Curious how he fits into the gospel message.

This reminds me of that Christmas scene in four christmases with Vince Vaughn playing Joseph.

T dizl televizl said:

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This reminds me of that Christmas scene in four christmases with Vince Vaughn playing Joseph.

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Yes!

Zobel said:

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Bishop of Myra and punched a heretic at Nicaea.

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Literally my favorite story of all time.

You ****ed up if Saint Nic slaps you

dermdoc said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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Either one?

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Both can not be true.

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All Calvinist should be disregarded and ignored.

The scourge of Protestantism.

Don't anyone come back with our Brothers and Sisters in Christ crap. They don't see it that way.

Geez why dont you tell us how you really feel

Frok said:

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Geez why dont you tell us how you really feel

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Not a fan.

Every Calvinist I've ever sat down with was just awful.

Horrible interpretation of the faith unreflective of the joy of the Gospels

They aren't so bad, you just need to get to know them. You gotta get them out of their cage stage.

CrackerJackAg said:

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dermdoc said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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Either one?

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Both can not be true.

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All Calvinist should be disregarded and ignored.

The scourge of Protestantism.

Don't anyone come back with our Brothers and Sisters in Christ crap. They don't see it that way.

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Weird thread for this to pop in. Can you at least give some color as to why you think we are too far gone?

I too find it weird this turned into a Calvinist bashing thread.

Also humorous that the original video is at a Baptist church, a descendant of Calvinism, and embodies all that would horrify a traditional Calvinist.

10andBOUNCE said:

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CrackerJackAg said:

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dermdoc said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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Either one?

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Both can not be true.

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All Calvinist should be disregarded and ignored.

The scourge of Protestantism.

Don't anyone come back with our Brothers and Sisters in Christ crap. They don't see it that way.

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Weird thread for this to pop in. Can you at least give some color as to why you think we are too far gone?

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No thanks. I engage Calvinist like I do JW, Mormons etc. complete dismissal out of hand as lunatics.

It's every criticism that is standard run of the mill Calvinist critique. The theology is evil and contrary to the gospels. It's everything's turned to 11 that is wrong with American Christianity today.

fc2112 said:

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I too find it weird this turned into a Calvinist bashing thread.

Also humorous that the original video is at a Baptist church, a descendant of Calvinism, and embodies all that would horrify a traditional Calvinist.

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Traditional Baptist theology is totally different than Calvinism. We believe in free will to choose or reject the Gospel and do not believe in limited atonement. And abhor double predestination as we feel it tarnishes God's character. Not all the reformers agreed with Calvin especially on dp.

In fact, it is a huge point of contention in the Southern Baptist convention due to different views on soteriology. Growing up in a Southern Baptist church, I had never been confronted with five point Calvinists and frankly was shocked. I decided if that was "true Christianity" (as I was told by Calvinists), then I did not want to be a Christian anymore and I left the church for several years, I had always been taught that God was love and certainly did not preordain his created people to eternal torment.


This article is a pretty good summary of the divide.

https://ib2news.org/2017/10/05/southern-baptists-and-reformed-theology/

I personally believe that reformed views are incompatible with traditional Southern Baptist theology/soteriology and wish the Calvinists/Reformed would have their own convention and leave us alone.

dermdoc said:

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I personally believe that reformed views are incompatible with traditional Southern Baptist theology/soteriology and wish the Calvinists/Reformed would have their own convention and leave us alone.

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Agreed

10andBOUNCE said:

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dermdoc said:

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I personally believe that reformed views are incompatible with traditional Southern Baptist theology/soteriology and wish the Calvinists/Reformed would have their own convention and leave us alone.

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Agreed

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I will say that you are one of the most civil Calvinists I have interacted with. My own personal experiences have not all been that way.

And my confrontation with Calvinists drove me to delve into Scripture and study to affirm my beliefs. Which was very good.

And I became convinced that Calvinism/Reformed theology/soteriology was not compatible with the entirety of Scripture. Or church tradition.

dermdoc said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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dermdoc said:

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I personally believe that reformed views are incompatible with traditional Southern Baptist theology/soteriology and wish the Calvinists/Reformed would have their own convention and leave us alone.

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Agreed

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I will say that you are one of the most civil Calvinists I have interacted with. My own personal experiences have not all been that way.

And my confrontation with Calvinists drove me to delve into Scripture and study to affirm my beliefs. Which was very good.

And I became convinced that Calvinism/Reformed theology/soteriology was not compatible with the entirety of Scripture. Or church tradition.

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That's putting it nicely.

It is corrosive, turns people from the faith and incompatible with Christianity proper or even polite society.

You should roll your eyes and walk away like you do the weird people handing out magazines on the sidewalk.

CrackerJackAg said:

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dermdoc said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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dermdoc said:

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I personally believe that reformed views are incompatible with traditional Southern Baptist theology/soteriology and wish the Calvinists/Reformed would have their own convention and leave us alone.

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Agreed

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I will say that you are one of the most civil Calvinists I have interacted with. My own personal experiences have not all been that way.

And my confrontation with Calvinists drove me to delve into Scripture and study to affirm my beliefs. Which was very good.

And I became convinced that Calvinism/Reformed theology/soteriology was not compatible with the entirety of Scripture. Or church tradition.

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That's putting it nicely.

It is corrosive, turns people from the faith and incompatible with Christianity proper or even polite society.

You should roll your eyes and walk away like you do the weird people handing out magazines on the sidewalk. I went you should roll your eyes and walk away like you do the weird people handing out magazines on the sidewalk

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Sorry but I do not feel that way. I am more just leave me and my traditional Baptist theology alone and I will leave them alone.

Start your own convention. Do not try to infiltrate Baptist churches by hiding your Calvinist/Reformed beliefs.

I understand that. As a theologically sound Protestant (such as yourself) I can imagine it's easier to tolerate these guys.

I'm coming from the perspective of being at odds with even the Catholic Church over its Western legal framework of Christianity.

Calvinist seem like pissy Barbarians living on the edge of the woods, where can still unfortunately see them, waving their arms and ejaculating grunts that make no sense.

If they just went a tad further off the fringe we could stop having to see them and forget they exist.

Other than that I have no opinion.

Have a great day.

CrackerJackAg said:

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I understand that. As a theologically sound Protestant (such as yourself) I can imagine it's easier to tolerate these guys.

I'm coming from the perspective of being at odds with even the Catholic Church over its Western legal framework of Christianity.

Calvinist seem like pissy Barbarians living on the edge of the woods, where can still unfortunately see them, waving their arms and ejaculating grunts that make no sense.

If they just went a tad further off the fringe we could stop having to see them and forget they exist.

Other than that I have no opinion.

Have a great day.

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Still in Vegas after the bowl game. Fixing to eat a croque madame at Brasserie B washed down with a good red wine. Nap then dinner at Wolfgang Puck's Italian joint at the Mandalay Bay.

Up 70 dollars after a bunch of big football bets. I am a genius. Especially if Washington covers tonight. Life is good. And so is God.