jrico2727 said:
Sapper Redux said:
jrico2727 said:
UTExan said:
jrico2727 said:
Sapper Redux said:
So the people of the ancient nation of Judah have settled back in the land they were from and started a modern nation. And because they aren't Christians it doesn't count as… what? A nation of Jews descended from Abraham?
Not what I said.
It is a secular state full of mostly secular people who do share a common ancestry to varying degrees. No dispute there.
To use it in the Christian Zionists perspective that basically by blessing Isreal they are blessing themselves in a superstitious reciprocation. Also, by bringing the Jews back to the Holy Land they will hasten the second coming by such things as rebuilding the temple, and restoring animal sacrifice. So in that sense yes.
So you have subzero problems with a state built around ethnic identity but the fact that Christian Zionists support it is what really irritates you?
No just so called Christians doing their best to bring on the reign of Antichrist weather they realize it or not. The whole point of zionism is messianic . Problem is he has already come and the one they want to bring ain't him.
But hook em right
No it isn't. It's explicitly not that. Zionism began as a response to the brutal oppression and persecution of Jews in Eastern Europe, the poverty and repression in the MENA region, and gained popularity after the Dreyfus Affair in France, one of the supposedly most tolerant of European nations. The goal of Zionism is a state for Jews to be free of oppression and persecution. It was always a secular goal. Any messianic Kingdom of Israel would look different than the state of Israel and any Orthodox or Haredi Jew you spoke to would emphasize that. Also, the Jewish expectations for the messiah would look very different from the claims made about an Antichrist.
I know the standard story and for most this probably true. And considering you dismiss anything that takes a supernatural understanding that is sufficient for you.
However they didn't bring in red heffers from Texas because brisket is delicious.
Zionism was mostly secular and the later Aliyahs were driven by a lot of immigration to secular moshavs (agricultural communities).
Much of that land was purchased from Arabs. Today in the West Bank it is just taken by force. American evangelicals were certainly supportive generally of Israel from 1948. Harry Truman was, despite objections from the State Department and other officials who were hesitant to alienate newly emerging oil producing states in the region.
You may be conflating certain figures' preoccupation with Israel establishing a temple with blind support for Israeli policy. I doubt any action taken by any evangelical is going to speed such an event. The millennial reign, if we believe scripture, is going to feature a royal government administering justice with righteousness and strict obedience to its authority.
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
-Havelock Vetinari
