Ah well. Maybe next time

https://www.ncregister.com/news/progressive-disappointment-at-synod-2024?amp

Absolutely on point!

747Ag said:

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Watch out for "unilateral," non-synodal documents though... like Fiducia Suplicans...

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This may sound weird, but I kind of prefer the Papal unilateral approach to a bunch of rando goofs with a a bad agenda

Wish we could trust both clergy and laity to make good decisions but alas

Remind me again why synods are even valid forms of discussion and decreeance?

It was never meant to be some sort of document producing effort. Just a listening opportunity of the issues the Church is facing at the parish level. For that alone- it has very much been a success, any other spin is just for clicks.

one MEEN Ag said:

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Remind me again why synods are even valid forms of discussion and decreeance?

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Well according to Pablo Serna, it was to create a unified church. Uniformity in major issues, like women deacons, same-sex relationship relationships, etc

Captain Pablo said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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Remind me again why synods are even valid forms of discussion and decreeance?

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Well according to Pablo Serna, it was to create a unified church. Uniformity in major issues, like women deacons, same-sex relationship relationships, etc

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clueless.

PabloSerna said:

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It was never meant to be some sort of document producing effort. Just a listening opportunity of the issues the Church is facing at the parish level. For that alone- it has very much been a success, any other spin is just for clicks.

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Yeah, right. That's not the tune you were singing several months ago.

To you, the Synod on synodality was huge, and meant to create uniformity in the church on Major issues

Not surprising you are downplaying its failure to do so

I know what I am, but what are you!!

To be honest, I have been following the Synod very closely but based on the last time I posted on here about it- it went over like a lead ballon. So, I do not see any potential of a rational discussion on this board- unfortunately.

ETA: it is huge in the sense that it is the first time in the church's 2000+ year history that they have invited laity to participate in this type of setting. That is huge any way you feel about it.

PabloSerna said:

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It was never meant to be some sort of document producing effort. Just a listening opportunity of the issues the Church is facing at the parish level. For that alone- it has very much been a success, any other spin is just for clicks.

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So when someone says they are lutheran, missouri synod. That's just lutheranism that had a listening opportunity, right? No real differences than the evangelical lutherans, correct?

Clearly you're playing fast and loose here. If you get what you want, its binding. If you don't, it was just an opportunity to share grievances - keep chipping away until you get what you want.

And that is why I think Synod's shouldn't even be a thing. What about church needs changing or reforming theologically wise? Thats whats at stake here. Someone wants to change church. And a synod is a formal step in the changing process.

one MEEN Ag said:

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PabloSerna said:

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It was never meant to be some sort of document producing effort. Just a listening opportunity of the issues the Church is facing at the parish level. For that alone- it has very much been a success, any other spin is just for clicks.

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So when someone says they are lutheran, missouri synod. That's just lutheranism that had a listening opportunity, right? No real differences than the evangelical lutherans, correct?

Clearly you're playing fast and loose here. If you get what you want, its binding. If you don't, it was just an opportunity to share grievances - keep chipping away until you get what you want.

And that is why I think Synod's shouldn't even be a thing. What about church needs changing or reforming theologically wise? Thats whats at stake here. Someone wants to change church. And a synod is a formal step in the changing process.

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Oh, you better believe it's a big deal. Look what happened in Germany.

And you better believe Serna would be dancing in the streets, proclaiming this to be the biggest thing since Vatican II had it gone his way

But it didn't, so, meh, it was never meant to be much in the first place

There's website about the Synod on Synodality. Please check it out for a better understanding. Nothing has changed from day 1. There was some excitement, if you want to call it that, when the German Catholic Church decided to jump the gun and post their own list of issues which were dominated by LGBTQ+ concerns and criticisms of the current pastoral and CCC approach. The Vatican quickly put that down and warned them against that process.

Some on here, in the past, have vilified Father James Martin SJ. He has been reporting quite often. If you follow New Ways Ministries like do- lots of updates. Again- this is a listening session (two years in the running) to bring forth what the faithful are dealing with. The Bishops will vote on a document, that ALREADY includes LGBTQ issues. That will be the ONLY document coming out of this Synod on Synodality. HTH

Captain Pablo said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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PabloSerna said:

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It was never meant to be some sort of document producing effort. Just a listening opportunity of the issues the Church is facing at the parish level. For that alone- it has very much been a success, any other spin is just for clicks.

---

So when someone says they are lutheran, missouri synod. That's just lutheranism that had a listening opportunity, right? No real differences than the evangelical lutherans, correct?

Clearly you're playing fast and loose here. If you get what you want, its binding. If you don't, it was just an opportunity to share grievances - keep chipping away until you get what you want.

And that is why I think Synod's shouldn't even be a thing. What about church needs changing or reforming theologically wise? Thats whats at stake here. Someone wants to change church. And a synod is a formal step in the changing process.

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Oh, you better believe it's a big deal. Look what happened in Germany.

And you better believe Serna would be dancing in the streets, proclaiming this to be the biggest thing since Vatican II had it gone his way

But it didn't, so, meh, it was never meant to be much in the first place

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showing your ignorance yet again..

PabloSerna said:

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There's website about the Synod on Synodality. Please check it out for a better understanding. Nothing has changed from day 1. There was some excitement, if you want to call it that, when the German Catholic Church decided to jump the gun and post their own list of issues which were dominated by LGBTQ+ concerns and criticisms of the current pastoral and CCC approach. The Vatican quickly put that down and warned them against that process.

Some one here, in the past, have vilified Father James Martin SJ. He has been reporting quite often. If you follow New Ways Ministries like do- lots of updates. Again- this is a listening session (two years in the running) to bring forth what the faithful are dealing with. The Bishops will vote on a document, that ALREADY includes LGBTQ issues. That will be the ONLY document coming out of this Synod on Synodality. HTH

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The Vatican warned the Germans, but they didn't do anything about it, did they?

Research man.. research.

ETA: Link to an AP article from 2023.

"We must be patient, dialogue and accompany these people on the real synodal path," Francis said, referring to his global consultation. The aim, he said, is to "help this more elitist (German) path so that it does not end badly in some way, but so is also integrated into the church."

"Always try to unite,'' the pope added.

The difference is in the title of the event, Synod on Synodality. The RCC has defined that word as, "fraternal collaboration and discernment." HTH


ETA: There will be no groundbreaking shift in doctrine. This was known since 2018. Anything else is spin, spun by talking heads that either know their audience doesn't follow the real developments in Rome or are purposefully seeking to divide the faithful.

PabloSerna said:

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Research man.. research.

ETA: Link to an AP article from 2023.

"We must be patient, dialogue and accompany these people on the real synodal path," Francis said, referring to his global consultation. The aim, he said, is to "help this more elitist (German) path so that it does not end badly in some way, but so is also integrated into the church."

"Always try to unite,'' the pope added.

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Yes I know that, and like said, they're basically doing nothing

That statement is wishy washy crap, trying to play both sides, and in the end, letting them do what they already said they're gonna do

If Francis wanted to squash it, he would have done so

"Unity" - Francis doesn't know what that word means

PabloSerna said:

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The difference is in the title of the event, Synod on Synodality. The RCC has defined that word as, "fraternal collaboration and discernment." HTH


ETA: There will be no groundbreaking shift in doctrine. This was known since 2018. Anything else is spin, spun by talking heads that either know their audience doesn't follow the real developments in Rome or are purposefully seeking to divide the faithful.

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Hilarious that you accuse others of doing what Francis does

Since I got you on this topic.. here is my take:

This thread is Exhibit A of what the Synod on Synodality is aiming to avoid. That an "elite" few can change the course of doctrine or pastoral approach.

A clear example is that of the German Church getting ahead of the process, maybe out of fear that their agenda, such as "same-sex marriage" would not make it to the final report. So they created their own process, called "Synodal Path" (how convenient to use the same words to sow confusion, ahem- Captain Pablo). Other Bishops in Germany had clear opposition to this "Synodal Path" and alerted the Vatican which came in to denounce this assembly. Was it enough? Those topics have been brought up but will likely never make it to the final report. They tried to skip the real process and exclude anyone that disagreed with them. As the Pope wrote, that once ideology entered the picture, the Holy Spirit left.

Now image for a moment that another group, say one that claims to be the "true Church" because it has stayed "true to the ancient teachings of the Fathers!" (I'm making this up, but you get the idea) and they want to hijack the Synod on Synodality by holding their own "Synodal Path" - well you can bet it will receive the same rebuke from the Vatican.

So, the groundbreaking, earth shattering, news making thing that is coming out of the Synod on Synodality is that the Church recognizes that it needs to walk this "synodal path" together. We (RCC) must make room in our tent for both the German Church and other Churches from around the world to move forward with the mission.

This approach has been discussed (Link) in the 2018 Synodality in the Life and Mission of the Church.

Not exactly "meh" to me.

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(excerpt, underling this approach)

CONCLUSION
JOURNEYING TOGETHER IN THE PARRHESIA OF THE SPIRIT

120. Pope Francis teaches that "to walk together is the constitutive way of the Church; the figure that enables us to interpret reality with the eyes and heart of God; the condition for following the Lord Jesus and being servants of life in this wounded time. The breath and pace of the Synod show what we are, and the dynamism of communion that animates our decisions; only in this way can we truly renew our pastoral ministry and adapt it to the mission of the Church in today's world; only in this way can we address the complexity of this time, thankful for the journey accomplished thus far, and determined to continue it with parrhesia".
121. The parrhesa of the Spirit required the People of God on its synodal journey is the trust, frankness and courage to "enter into the expanse of God's horizon" in order to "ensure that a sacrament of unity exists in the world and that man is therefore not destined for dispersion and confusion". The lived and enduring experience of synodality is, for the People of God, a source of the joy promised by Jesus, a catalyst of new life, the springboard for a new phase of missionary commitment.
May Mary, Mother of God and Mother of the Church, who "joined the disciples in praying for the coming of the Holy Spirit (cf. Acts 1,14), and thus made possible the missionary outburst which took place at Pentecost", accompany the synodal pilgrimage of the People of God, pointing the way and teaching us the beautiful, tender and strong style of this new phase of evangelization.