USCCB afraid to call a spade a spade again. - Page 2

PabloSerna

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5:26p, 10/3/24

AG

Mea culpa.. here I am again.

This happens to be on the main page over at www.npr.org:

In excerpt from new memoir, Melania Trump says women have the 'right to choose' abortion

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I know some of you have this idea that messaging is not that important, but I want to present exhibit 1 (see link above) because way back in the day; the folks (well meaning people) advocating for a woman's right to choose abortion was overshadowed by life of an unborn child being killed in the mother's womb.

Abortion then and I still say now- is horrific. The lie that was spewed to make people swallow abortion was to spin it as a "reproductive right" and not discuss the life of the unborn child by any means. So, it started with turning the argument into an argument about reproductive health, not just abortion, but family planning, and cancer screening.

This was a strategic move to de-humanize abortion. Another aspect of this maneuver was to paint the other side as "anti-abortion" instead of "Pro Life." Why? Because it puts them in your home field. Now it can be all about the procedure and not about the life of the unborn child. Pro Life folks recognize the trap set, but not all it appears.

When I say messaging, I am not talking about the Gospel of Life message of truth, I am talking about the messaging that the self-proclaimed "Pro-Choice" folks initiated to confuse many, especially young minds. That is why pictures of a dead fetus, sonograms, and pictures of babies inside their mother's womb sucking their thumbs are like kryptonite to their whole charade.

That is why I refuse to dehumanize the horror that is abortion by limiting the truth of God to "anti-abortion."

“Falsehood flies and the truth comes limping after it” -Jonathan Swift, 1710

The Banned

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In reply to PabloSerna • 5:58p, 10/3/24

PabloSerna said:
I did answer. Just quoted someone.

Saying the church is anti-abortion does not mean the church isn't pro-life. You've seemed to draw some sort of arbitrary line where the two can not coexist.

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Zobel

Joined: Oct 12, 2006

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In reply to PabloSerna • 6:01p, 10/3/24

AG

PabloSerna said:
If the devil has done anything, it is on full display right now. We are twisting words to give them a meaning they didn't have before. Zobel is reaching into encyclicals to win a point.

????

The church is anti murder. It is also anti stealing and anti idolatry. I think we can safely even go as far as to say that God hates abortion.

That has no bearing on being pro-life other than being a prerequisite. You can't be pro-life without being anti-abortion. If you're not anti-abortion you're not pro-life. It is important to be anti-abortion so you CAN be pro-life. No one has ever, ever said the church is ONLY anti-abortion or that somehow that limits you from being pro-life.

This is a stupid argument and I genuinely have no idea what you're trying to prove by having it.

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ramblin_ag02

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In reply to Quo Vadis? • 8:33p, 10/3/24

AG

Quo Vadis? said:
ramblin_ag02 said:
It's not politically toxic to say "anti-abortion". Both sides of the issue are at least somewhat "anti-abortion", in that no one thinks abortion is awesome and should be encouraged. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone genuinely "pro-abortion"

The politicized terms are pro-life and pro-choice, and each group tries to paint the other as anti-life or anti-choice.

I wouldnt have disagreed with you 10 years ago doc, but there is a non zero portion of the left that thinks abortion is great. I would bet they make up around 10-15% of the pro-choice movement. Full on abortion revelers and celebrators.

see them every year at the March for life in Austin. They show us their papers from their abortions and say they're going out to have sex and get another one just for us. Some counter protestors have the number of abortions they've gotten like a jersey number on their shirt.

That's awful. And all the more reason to contrast ourselves with that

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Bearpitbull

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10:28p, 10/3/24

I'm prolife but I think the criticism from the left that most prolifers, generally, don't give two ****s about the kid once he is born is more accurate that we want to admit. To me, we need to be liberal only relative to giving kids the best chance at a start in this rightfully competitive world, particularly if their parents struggle to provide a decent home. In the end, it would make the prolife crowd look like their faith was actually fueling their compassion and not just some combo of wanting to be on the right team and the odd satisfaction of self righteousness.

The truly conservative view is pro-life with exceptions for health, sexual assault, incest, etc. Then to aggressively carry that love for others through their childhood years programming wise and then dial back after they are adults. Crime and costs to society would be far, far lower.

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Quo Vadis?

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In reply to Bearpitbull • 11:24p, 10/3/24

Bearpitbull said:
I'm prolife but I think the criticism from the left that most prolifers, generally, don't give two ****s about the kid once he is born is more accurate that we want to admit. To me, we need to be liberal only relative to giving kids the best chance at a start in this rightfully competitive world, particularly if their parents struggle to provide a decent home. In the end, it would make the prolife crowd look like their faith was actually fueling their compassion and not just some combo of wanting to be on the right team and the odd satisfaction of self righteousness.

The truly conservative view is pro-life with exceptions for health, sexual assault, incest, etc. Then to aggressively carry that love for others through their childhood years programming wise and then dial back after they are adults. Crime and costs to society would be far, far lower.

I don't agree with that, I think abortions for incest, rape, etc should still be illegal but I agree with almost everything else.

Neoliberalism is over. The free market had its chance and we found quickly that we weren't mature or virtuous enough to deserve it. Free meals for kids at schools, massive tax breaks for stay at home moms, state marriage dowries, single mother assistance, all of those things that make the neo-liberal shriek "ack socialism" are greatly needed.

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