All of those were decisions to attempt to unify the Church and find agreements. Church leaders spent centuries in attempts to come to an agreement with the monophysites. A small percentage went their own way. Almost all that did died out. For the most part it was one Church until the RCC went their own way. That sort of opened the door to the idea.

Any division today that still exist are due to cultural and long established Churches surviving apart from one another after the Muslim invasions and a thousand years of the Ottoman Empire.

Being under the turbin probably helped The Eastern Churches hold together. The West had no real threat to the faith to bind it.

Protestantism destroyed the Western Church.

Christianity would be stronger unified.

CrackerJackAg said:

---

All of those were decisions to attempt to unify the Church and find agreements. Church leaders spent centuries in attempts to come to an agreement with the monophysites. A small percentage went their own way. Almost all that did died out. For the most part it was one Church until the RCC went their own way. That sort of opened the door to the idea.

Any division today that still exist are due to cultural and long established Churches surviving apart from one another after the Muslim invasions and a thousand years of the Ottoman Empire.

Being under the turbin probably helped The Eastern Churches hold together. The West had no real threat to the faith to bind it.

Protestantism destroyed the Western Church.

Christianity would be stronger unified.

---

So what are we divided about? And who caused the divisions?

dermdoc said:

---

CrackerJackAg said:

---

All of those were decisions to attempt to unify the Church and find agreements. Church leaders spent centuries in attempts to come to an agreement with the monophysites. A small percentage went their own way. Almost all that did died out. For the most part it was one Church until the RCC went their own way. That sort of opened the door to the idea.

Any division today that still exist are due to cultural and long established Churches surviving apart from one another after the Muslim invasions and a thousand years of the Ottoman Empire.

Being under the turbin probably helped The Eastern Churches hold together. The West had no real threat to the faith to bind it.

Protestantism destroyed the Western Church.

Christianity would be stronger unified.

---

So what are we divided about? And who caused the divisions?

---

I originally commented on the ease at which Protestants are willing to further divide the Church without consequence or thought. I found that to be disturbing.

The discussion spiraled from there.

The division is evident. From Orthodox to Catholic the division is less theological and could be overcome at some point. Papal authority being like sand and cheese to the Orthodox.

We agree on the Sacraments and this is where I personally draw the line with the Christian Faith.

Bishops, Church Tradition, Single Baptism, The Trinity and the Eucharist (true blood and body of Christ)

I can't tell you what all 200+ MAJOR American Protestant denominations think or what the estimated 47,000 Protestant denominations worldwide think and what all divides The RCC and The Orthodox from each of them.

I would die before I even figured out who they all were.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_by_number_of_members#:~:text=Broadly%20speaking%20Protestantism%20has%20four,tens%20of%20thousands%20of%20denominations.

I would assume each Protestant group got bothered by each other and continue to divide. I don't think any one did it to them. The answer has always been to go their own way when they don't get their own way.

Protestants cut tail and ran rather than fixing the issue. It was more about independence and removing any form of higher authority than anything else in my opinion.

Going out. Have a good night.

I'm not as combative in person. Texags is never a great median for these types of discussions.

Jabin said:

---

Quote:

---

Protestants cut tail and ran rather than fixing the issue.

---

Wait, I thought that Luther tried to remain in the RCC but was kicked out? Am I wrong on that?

---

His initial intention was not to. Then things went down a path he lacked control over. Then he went all in.

Jabin said:

---

Quote:

---

Protestants cut tail and ran rather than fixing the issue.

---

Wait, I thought that Luther tried to remain in the RCC but was kicked out? Am I wrong on that?

---

This is correct.

It's really quite interesting how long Luther was actually Roman Catholic before he was excommunicated. It's a lot longer than most would think and even then, it was largely driven by him attacking the pope over indulgences, not his theological works.

dermdoc said:

---

CrackerJackAg said:

---

All of those were decisions to attempt to unify the Church and find agreements. Church leaders spent centuries in attempts to come to an agreement with the monophysites. A small percentage went their own way. Almost all that did died out. For the most part it was one Church until the RCC went their own way. That sort of opened the door to the idea.

Any division today that still exist are due to cultural and long established Churches surviving apart from one another after the Muslim invasions and a thousand years of the Ottoman Empire.

Being under the turbin probably helped The Eastern Churches hold together. The West had no real threat to the faith to bind it.

Protestantism destroyed the Western Church.

Christianity would be stronger unified.

---

So what are we divided about? And who caused the divisions?

---

Liberalism. Liberals

As per usual

No really

You're not wrong. Protestantism is the first step to Liberalism. You have to remove the Church and God as an authority over people's lives and most importantly governments. America got God out of Governments everywhere. It's an important first step towards the individual and humanism.

America is the torch bearer for Protestant Insanity, Liberalism (classic term & not just democrats today in the event sometime thinks that's all it means), The Woke Movement and just about every other nutty thing happening in the world.

It's ok though because everyone has more stuff.

CrackerJackAg said:

---

You're not wrong. Protestantism is the first step to Liberalism. You have to remove the Church and God as an authority over people's lives and most importantly governments. America got God out of Governments everywhere. It's an important first step towards the individual and humanism.

America is the torch bearer for Protestant Insanity, Liberalism (classic term & not just democrats today in the event sometime thinks that's all it means), The Woke Movement and just about every other nutty thing happening in the world.

It's ok though because everyone has more stuff.

---

So Evangelicals are liberal? And do not believe God is sovereign?

Could have fooled me.

Wow…I literally wrote that liberalism doesn't mean liberal in the political sense today in case any one was confused ahead of time.

I also did not say Evangelical at any point. Although I would venture to say that the vast majority of evangelicals are still in favor of the separation of church and state. You would have to be because none of you would ever agree about which "church" should be in charge.

American Liberalism is the unalienable right of the individual above ALL else including God and freedom from religion. All US parties are liberal.

American Liberalism spread across the planet and removed God and The Church as authorities in every Western society. We removed the concept so thoroughly that Americans have a hard time understanding that it was ever any different or should be.

Yes, American Protestantism and Liberalism removed God from the Government and as an Authority from everyone's lives.

Like the scripture and your feelings, you get to pick and choose whenever you want and it suits your personal preference. It just means what you want it to mean.

Well said.

First you moved the goalpost and are now making a completely different statement that has nothing to do with your first statement.

Orthodoxy does not say you have to pray through anyone to get to Christ. That is not true and a complete lie. It is a lie. Don't sugar coat it. You know that and it's a lie.

The Orthodox believe in intercession. They do not say it is required.

Protestants do as well in a way. Why do you ask other people (they are just men) to pray for you? What good would that do? You don't need them to get to God.

Catholics and the Orthodox do the same thing we just believe those that have passed on can still intercede for us as well.

It's the lies people spew when they have nothing better.

If you are ok with that then no point in having a discussion.

I don't agree with protestantism (I must say I believe there is God everywhere and very good Christian's everywhere). That is obvious, but I won't sit here and say things that I know are not true.

Did not mean to make you angry and do not believe I lied.

And I never specified any particular faith tradition but was thinking primarily of Catholicism. You see it in Protestant churches also, especially mega churches, where the pastor becomes basically an idol.

I am leaving this discussion at the request of the Holy Spirit.

God bless my friend.

You too. I appreciate it.

http://shamelesspopery.com/can-catholics-and-orthodox-pray-directly-to-the-father/

And this explains it pretty well. I was wrong on my post.

I do think you have a lot of misconceptions about what Protestants believe and who we are. Just like I do of Catholic/Orthodox.

We are all brothers/sisters in Christ.

And now I am really gone from this thread.

dermdoc said:

---

http://shamelesspopery.com/can-catholics-and-orthodox-pray-directly-to-the-father/

And this explains it pretty well. I was wrong on my post.

I do think you have a lot of misconceptions about what Protestants believe and who we are. Just like I do of Catholic/Orthodox.

We are all brothers/sisters in Christ.

And now I am really gone from this thread.

---

I grew up Protestant. Baptist for 20 years growing up. Tried the nondenominational thing with The Woodlands Church and Grace church then tried Presbyterian looking for something more traditional.

Found orthodoxy in my early Thirties and fully converted at 35.

I think 33 years of twice a week Churching along with Vacation Bible School and camp qualify me just fine on general Protestant knowledge.

AgLiving06 said:

---

CrackerJackAg said:

---

You're not wrong. Protestantism is the first step to Liberalism. You have to remove the Church and God as an authority over people's lives and most importantly governments. America got God out of Governments everywhere. It's an important first step towards the individual and humanism.

America is the torch bearer for Protestant Insanity, Liberalism (classic term & not just democrats today in the event sometime thinks that's all it means), The Woke Movement and just about every other nutty thing happening in the world.

It's ok though because everyone has more stuff.

---

This is only true if you hold to a view of "the church" as a formal structure. EO's support for this is marginal at best and more manmade traditional than anything else.

America is more the torch bearer for evangelicalism in the modern sense than anything else. The true Protestant groups find their identity not in america, but in the historical christian church that was corrupted and then reformed.

---

Believe what you want but you back it up 500 years and even at the start of the Protestant Reformation in Europe you would have been thought a loon for saying that.

Get out of Europe (The Middle East still had a very large Christian along with the Balkans and Russia etc…) and every one is just going "what the hell is happening over there ".

Just because you justify it today and it's normal doesn't mean it was. It's just gone really far.

The "original christian church was corrupted and reformed"? Which of the hundreds of differing/conflicting churches did it reform into?

Without really thinking I can think of at least 6 major conflicts and a lot of bloodshed fought over differing Protestant faiths.

Justinians reconquest of the West wasn't a religious war but a war of conquest for previously held Roman lands.

Thank God for that because outside of Clovis and the Pope (still orthodox then) Europe was entirely Arian.

If not for that we all grow up thinking Jesus was not the Son of God and that the Trinity is some kooky idea the Eastern Orthodox Christian have.

CrackerJackAg said:

---

AgLiving06 said:

---

CrackerJackAg said:

---

You're not wrong. Protestantism is the first step to Liberalism. You have to remove the Church and God as an authority over people's lives and most importantly governments. America got God out of Governments everywhere. It's an important first step towards the individual and humanism.

America is the torch bearer for Protestant Insanity, Liberalism (classic term & not just democrats today in the event sometime thinks that's all it means), The Woke Movement and just about every other nutty thing happening in the world.

It's ok though because everyone has more stuff.

---

This is only true if you hold to a view of "the church" as a formal structure. EO's support for this is marginal at best and more manmade traditional than anything else.

America is more the torch bearer for evangelicalism in the modern sense than anything else. The true Protestant groups find their identity not in america, but in the historical christian church that was corrupted and then reformed.

---

Believe what you want but you back it up 500 years and even at the start of the Protestant Reformation in Europe you would have been thought a loon for saying that.

Get out of Europe (The Middle East still had a very large Christian along with the Balkans and Russia etc…) and every one is just going "what the hell is happening over there ".

Just because you justify it today and it's normal doesn't mean it was. It's just gone really far.

The "original christian church was corrupted and reformed"? Which of the hundreds of differing/conflicting churches did it reform into?

Without really thinking I can think of at least 6 major conflicts and a lot of bloodshed fought over differing Protestant faiths.

Justinians reconquest of the West wasn't a religious war but a war of conquest for previously held Roman lands.

Thank God for that because outside of Clovis and the Pope (still orthodox then) Europe was entirely Arian.

If not for that we all grow up thinking Jesus was not the Son of God and that the Trinity is some kooky idea the Eastern Orthodox Christian have.

---

Without thinking, I can think of a Russian Orthodox Patriarch supporting Putin this very second.

Without thinking, I can think of Popes who burned christians at the stake for daring to question his authority.

Without thinking, I can think of I can point to things like the filioque and the Pope that "proceeded" protestant groups.

Without thinking, I can think of councils and counter councils that disagreed with each other.

It's a myth that there was no disagreement or violence prior to the Reformers. It's also a myth that because of the Reformation, suddenly there were different views. Those always existed. The real difference was that as long as you bent the knee to the Pope, he more or less let you believe whatever you wanted.

Titus 3

AgLiving06 said:

---

CrackerJackAg said:

---

AgLiving06 said:

---

CrackerJackAg said:

---

You're not wrong. Protestantism is the first step to Liberalism. You have to remove the Church and God as an authority over people's lives and most importantly governments. America got God out of Governments everywhere. It's an important first step towards the individual and humanism.

America is the torch bearer for Protestant Insanity, Liberalism (classic term & not just democrats today in the event sometime thinks that's all it means), The Woke Movement and just about every other nutty thing happening in the world.

It's ok though because everyone has more stuff.

---

This is only true if you hold to a view of "the church" as a formal structure. EO's support for this is marginal at best and more manmade traditional than anything else.

America is more the torch bearer for evangelicalism in the modern sense than anything else. The true Protestant groups find their identity not in america, but in the historical christian church that was corrupted and then reformed.

---

Believe what you want but you back it up 500 years and even at the start of the Protestant Reformation in Europe you would have been thought a loon for saying that.

Get out of Europe (The Middle East still had a very large Christian along with the Balkans and Russia etc…) and every one is just going "what the hell is happening over there ".

Just because you justify it today and it's normal doesn't mean it was. It's just gone really far.

The "original christian church was corrupted and reformed"? Which of the hundreds of differing/conflicting churches did it reform into?

Without really thinking I can think of at least 6 major conflicts and a lot of bloodshed fought over differing Protestant faiths.

Justinians reconquest of the West wasn't a religious war but a war of conquest for previously held Roman lands.

Thank God for that because outside of Clovis and the Pope (still orthodox then) Europe was entirely Arian.

If not for that we all grow up thinking Jesus was not the Son of God and that the Trinity is some kooky idea the Eastern Orthodox Christian have.

---

Without thinking, I can think of a Russian Orthodox Patriarch supporting Putin this very second.

Without thinking, I can think of Popes who burned christians at the stake for daring to question his authority.

Without thinking, I can think of I can point to things like the filioque and the Pope that "proceeded" protestant groups.

Without thinking, I can think of councils and counter councils that disagreed with each other.

It's a myth that there was no disagreement or violence prior to the Reformers. It's also a myth that because of the Reformation, suddenly there were different views. Those always existed. The real difference was that as long as you bent the knee to the Pope, he more or less let you believe whatever you wanted.

---

America is not the good guy in the war. There isn't one. The Patriarch sees the encroachment of the American Woke/Gay/Liberal mindset as an ultimate evil. He isn't wrong.

Again you are talking RCC/Protestant. That's a you guys beef.
You both killed every chance you got. None of you are innocent victims.

Pope and the Filioque is a you guys thing.

Seven are recognized and universal. Every Orthodox Church agrees with them. 100%
Even the Heterodox agree with the first four. They just got split off by the Muslims in the 7th century so that kind of made unity tough.

Yes, always disagreements. That's why the Orthodox sat down and worked it out, had councils, argued and eventually came to agreement. We didn't do what you guys did and created a thousand independent churches with no structure or authority other than ones self.

You guys have gone all over the place. Most of you guys believe in the rapture.

CrackerJackAg said:

---

AgLiving06 said:

---

CrackerJackAg said:

---

AgLiving06 said:

---

CrackerJackAg said:

---

You're not wrong. Protestantism is the first step to Liberalism. You have to remove the Church and God as an authority over people's lives and most importantly governments. America got God out of Governments everywhere. It's an important first step towards the individual and humanism.

America is the torch bearer for Protestant Insanity, Liberalism (classic term & not just democrats today in the event sometime thinks that's all it means), The Woke Movement and just about every other nutty thing happening in the world.

It's ok though because everyone has more stuff.

---

This is only true if you hold to a view of "the church" as a formal structure. EO's support for this is marginal at best and more manmade traditional than anything else.

America is more the torch bearer for evangelicalism in the modern sense than anything else. The true Protestant groups find their identity not in america, but in the historical christian church that was corrupted and then reformed.

---

Believe what you want but you back it up 500 years and even at the start of the Protestant Reformation in Europe you would have been thought a loon for saying that.

Get out of Europe (The Middle East still had a very large Christian along with the Balkans and Russia etc…) and every one is just going "what the hell is happening over there ".

Just because you justify it today and it's normal doesn't mean it was. It's just gone really far.

The "original christian church was corrupted and reformed"? Which of the hundreds of differing/conflicting churches did it reform into?

Without really thinking I can think of at least 6 major conflicts and a lot of bloodshed fought over differing Protestant faiths.

Justinians reconquest of the West wasn't a religious war but a war of conquest for previously held Roman lands.

Thank God for that because outside of Clovis and the Pope (still orthodox then) Europe was entirely Arian.

If not for that we all grow up thinking Jesus was not the Son of God and that the Trinity is some kooky idea the Eastern Orthodox Christian have.

---

Without thinking, I can think of a Russian Orthodox Patriarch supporting Putin this very second.

Without thinking, I can think of Popes who burned christians at the stake for daring to question his authority.

Without thinking, I can think of I can point to things like the filioque and the Pope that "proceeded" protestant groups.

Without thinking, I can think of councils and counter councils that disagreed with each other.

It's a myth that there was no disagreement or violence prior to the Reformers. It's also a myth that because of the Reformation, suddenly there were different views. Those always existed. The real difference was that as long as you bent the knee to the Pope, he more or less let you believe whatever you wanted.

---

America is not the good guy in the war. There isn't one. The Patriarch sees the encroachment of the American Woke/Gay/Liberal mindset as an ultimate evil. He isn't wrong.

Again you are talking RCC/Protestant. That's a you guys beef.
You both killed every chance you got. None of you are innocent victims.

Pope and the Filioque is a you guys thing.

Seven are recognized and universal. Every Orthodox Church agrees with them. 100%
Even the Heterodox agree with the first four. They just got split off by the Muslims in the 7th century so that kind of made unity tough.

Yes, always disagreements. That's why the Orthodox sat down and worked it out, had councils, argued and eventually came to agreement. We didn't do what you guys did and created a thousand independent churches with no structure or authority other than ones self.

You guys have gone all over the place. Most of you guys believe in the rapture.

---

Gotcha. So the EO supports Putin invading another country "because of woke/gay mindset." That's a bold claim.

And now we move the goalposts.

Your exact words earlier were "From Orthodox to Catholic the division is less theological and could be overcome at some point. Papal authority being like sand and cheese to the Orthodox."

Now you want to claim all those theological differences are "you guys." No. These are theological questions for the Christian Church to look at and address.

So no, the filioque is not a "you guys" it was something that led to a split between the east and west. As I pointed out before, you hide behind "not the west." The filioque was in usage in the west well before the split and instead of resolving it, there was a split. Which is the reality. Once you get past the first 6 ecumenical councils, there was no depth or unity of much of anything, including the Lords Supper.

7 Councils are not recognized and universal. Rome holds to 21 of them. The first 6 are widely understood and accepted, the 7th is partially recognized for not being wrong per se, but built on a faulty foundation.

Then you end by throwing out nonsense (which is odd for someone who claims to not be confrontational). The rapture is a modern invention that no Reformer believe in. You're just throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks.

AgLiving06 said:

---

CrackerJackAg said:

---

AgLiving06 said:

---

CrackerJackAg said:

---

AgLiving06 said:

---

CrackerJackAg said:

---

You're not wrong. Protestantism is the first step to Liberalism. You have to remove the Church and God as an authority over people's lives and most importantly governments. America got God out of Governments everywhere. It's an important first step towards the individual and humanism.

America is the torch bearer for Protestant Insanity, Liberalism (classic term & not just democrats today in the event sometime thinks that's all it means), The Woke Movement and just about every other nutty thing happening in the world.

It's ok though because everyone has more stuff.

---

This is only true if you hold to a view of "the church" as a formal structure. EO's support for this is marginal at best and more manmade traditional than anything else.

America is more the torch bearer for evangelicalism in the modern sense than anything else. The true Protestant groups find their identity not in america, but in the historical christian church that was corrupted and then reformed.

---

Believe what you want but you back it up 500 years and even at the start of the Protestant Reformation in Europe you would have been thought a loon for saying that.

Get out of Europe (The Middle East still had a very large Christian along with the Balkans and Russia etc…) and every one is just going "what the hell is happening over there ".

Just because you justify it today and it's normal doesn't mean it was. It's just gone really far.

The "original christian church was corrupted and reformed"? Which of the hundreds of differing/conflicting churches did it reform into?

Without really thinking I can think of at least 6 major conflicts and a lot of bloodshed fought over differing Protestant faiths.

Justinians reconquest of the West wasn't a religious war but a war of conquest for previously held Roman lands.

Thank God for that because outside of Clovis and the Pope (still orthodox then) Europe was entirely Arian.

If not for that we all grow up thinking Jesus was not the Son of God and that the Trinity is some kooky idea the Eastern Orthodox Christian have.

---

Without thinking, I can think of a Russian Orthodox Patriarch supporting Putin this very second.

Without thinking, I can think of Popes who burned christians at the stake for daring to question his authority.

Without thinking, I can think of I can point to things like the filioque and the Pope that "proceeded" protestant groups.

Without thinking, I can think of councils and counter councils that disagreed with each other.

It's a myth that there was no disagreement or violence prior to the Reformers. It's also a myth that because of the Reformation, suddenly there were different views. Those always existed. The real difference was that as long as you bent the knee to the Pope, he more or less let you believe whatever you wanted.

---

America is not the good guy in the war. There isn't one. The Patriarch sees the encroachment of the American Woke/Gay/Liberal mindset as an ultimate evil. He isn't wrong.

Again you are talking RCC/Protestant. That's a you guys beef.
You both killed every chance you got. None of you are innocent victims.

Pope and the Filioque is a you guys thing.

Seven are recognized and universal. Every Orthodox Church agrees with them. 100%
Even the Heterodox agree with the first four. They just got split off by the Muslims in the 7th century so that kind of made unity tough.

Yes, always disagreements. That's why the Orthodox sat down and worked it out, had councils, argued and eventually came to agreement. We didn't do what you guys did and created a thousand independent churches with no structure or authority other than ones self.

You guys have gone all over the place. Most of you guys believe in the rapture.

---

Gotcha. So the EO supports Putin invading another country "because of woke/gay mindset." That's a bold claim.

And now we move the goalposts.

Your exact words earlier were "From Orthodox to Catholic the division is less theological and could be overcome at some point. Papal authority being like sand and cheese to the Orthodox."

Now you want to claim all those theological differences are "you guys." No. These are theological questions for the Christian Church to look at and address.

So no, the filioque is not a "you guys" it was something that led to a split between the east and west. As I pointed out before, you hide behind "not the west." The filioque was in usage in the west well before the split and instead of resolving it, there was a split. Which is the reality. Once you get past the first 6 ecumenical councils, there was no depth or unity of much of anything, including the Lords Supper.

7 Councils are not recognized and universal. Rome holds to 21 of them. The first 6 are widely understood and accepted, the 7th is partially recognized for not being wrong per se, but built on a faulty foundation.

Then you end by throwing out nonsense (which is odd for someone who claims to not be confrontational). The rapture is a modern invention that no Reformer believe in. You're just throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks.

---

I didn't say that. I said he supports him. Geez…

Yes, you guys are much more alike than different in our eyes. The RCC are just theologically closer.

The Orthodox Church and its 300 million members are unified in one belief.

21 councils is a you guys/RCC thing. Don't care.
No we don't have any responsibility to sit down and come to compromise or change one belief we have held for millennia.

We tried having that conversation four and a half centuries ago and it was a waste of time.

This is too.

Have a good night. I'm finished with this thread. It's just running around in circles with you guys.

CrackerJackAg said:

---

AgLiving06 said:

---

CrackerJackAg said:

---

AgLiving06 said:

---

CrackerJackAg said:

---

AgLiving06 said:

---

CrackerJackAg said:

---

You're not wrong. Protestantism is the first step to Liberalism. You have to remove the Church and God as an authority over people's lives and most importantly governments. America got God out of Governments everywhere. It's an important first step towards the individual and humanism.

America is the torch bearer for Protestant Insanity, Liberalism (classic term & not just democrats today in the event sometime thinks that's all it means), The Woke Movement and just about every other nutty thing happening in the world.

It's ok though because everyone has more stuff.

---

This is only true if you hold to a view of "the church" as a formal structure. EO's support for this is marginal at best and more manmade traditional than anything else.

America is more the torch bearer for evangelicalism in the modern sense than anything else. The true Protestant groups find their identity not in america, but in the historical christian church that was corrupted and then reformed.

---

Believe what you want but you back it up 500 years and even at the start of the Protestant Reformation in Europe you would have been thought a loon for saying that.

Get out of Europe (The Middle East still had a very large Christian along with the Balkans and Russia etc…) and every one is just going "what the hell is happening over there ".

Just because you justify it today and it's normal doesn't mean it was. It's just gone really far.

The "original christian church was corrupted and reformed"? Which of the hundreds of differing/conflicting churches did it reform into?

Without really thinking I can think of at least 6 major conflicts and a lot of bloodshed fought over differing Protestant faiths.

Justinians reconquest of the West wasn't a religious war but a war of conquest for previously held Roman lands.

Thank God for that because outside of Clovis and the Pope (still orthodox then) Europe was entirely Arian.

If not for that we all grow up thinking Jesus was not the Son of God and that the Trinity is some kooky idea the Eastern Orthodox Christian have.

---

Without thinking, I can think of a Russian Orthodox Patriarch supporting Putin this very second.

Without thinking, I can think of Popes who burned christians at the stake for daring to question his authority.

Without thinking, I can think of I can point to things like the filioque and the Pope that "proceeded" protestant groups.

Without thinking, I can think of councils and counter councils that disagreed with each other.

It's a myth that there was no disagreement or violence prior to the Reformers. It's also a myth that because of the Reformation, suddenly there were different views. Those always existed. The real difference was that as long as you bent the knee to the Pope, he more or less let you believe whatever you wanted.

---

America is not the good guy in the war. There isn't one. The Patriarch sees the encroachment of the American Woke/Gay/Liberal mindset as an ultimate evil. He isn't wrong.

Again you are talking RCC/Protestant. That's a you guys beef.
You both killed every chance you got. None of you are innocent victims.

Pope and the Filioque is a you guys thing.

Seven are recognized and universal. Every Orthodox Church agrees with them. 100%
Even the Heterodox agree with the first four. They just got split off by the Muslims in the 7th century so that kind of made unity tough.

Yes, always disagreements. That's why the Orthodox sat down and worked it out, had councils, argued and eventually came to agreement. We didn't do what you guys did and created a thousand independent churches with no structure or authority other than ones self.

You guys have gone all over the place. Most of you guys believe in the rapture.

---

Gotcha. So the EO supports Putin invading another country "because of woke/gay mindset." That's a bold claim.

And now we move the goalposts.

Your exact words earlier were "From Orthodox to Catholic the division is less theological and could be overcome at some point. Papal authority being like sand and cheese to the Orthodox."

Now you want to claim all those theological differences are "you guys." No. These are theological questions for the Christian Church to look at and address.

So no, the filioque is not a "you guys" it was something that led to a split between the east and west. As I pointed out before, you hide behind "not the west." The filioque was in usage in the west well before the split and instead of resolving it, there was a split. Which is the reality. Once you get past the first 6 ecumenical councils, there was no depth or unity of much of anything, including the Lords Supper.

7 Councils are not recognized and universal. Rome holds to 21 of them. The first 6 are widely understood and accepted, the 7th is partially recognized for not being wrong per se, but built on a faulty foundation.

Then you end by throwing out nonsense (which is odd for someone who claims to not be confrontational). The rapture is a modern invention that no Reformer believe in. You're just throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks.

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I didn't say that. I said he supports him. Geez…

Yes, you guys are much more alike than different in our eyes. The RCC are just theologically closer.

The Orthodox Church and its 300 million members are unified in one belief.

21 councils is a you guys/RCC thing. Don't care.
No we don't have any responsibility to sit down and come to compromise or change one belief we have held for millennia.

We tried having that conversation four and a half centuries ago and it was a waste of time.

This is too.

Have a good night. I'm finished with this thread. It's just running around in circles with you guys.

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Lol. You speak out both sides of your mouth. Karill is the patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church who supports Putin, and also the EO is "unified in one belief." Good luck squaring that circle.

You do a wonderful job of driving home the point I made earlier. You're basic argument for the EO amounts to "not the western church." That's a cop out and lazy. The western church is the church that it is because it struggled with heresies and heretics and corrupt "leaders." Reunification will mean dealing with those issues and accepting where they are correct and challenging where they may be wrong.

Do I wish the west was more unified? sure. Do I believe at this time that Lutheranism is the Reformed Western Church going back to the Church Fathers? absolutely. Do I recognize you and many on here as brothers and sisters in Christ? Yes, and so do the EO.