HumpitPuryear said:

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Aggrad08 said:

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HumpitPuryear said:

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DOJ collaborating with Twitter to remove a candidate from their platform is over the line. States trying to bar a candidate from the ballot is over the line. The multiple cases of lawfare playing out is over the line. You're a fool if you can't see how people see that and don't think "Hmmm, if the tyrants are willing go this far to keep me from voting for that candidate than by god I'm going to support that candidate."

I'm a DeSantis supporter so I'm not goaltending for anyone. DeSantis supporters really wanted all of this Trump attention to stop. CNN should be called Trump TV. They were never interested in covering DeSantis and that hurt his campaign.

And if I'm responsible for Trump than you are responsible for Biden. You really want to go there?

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First off, your general point is fundamentally absurd. Yes the democrats elevated trump because they thought it profitable to give extra air time to Donald trump to help paint conservatives as stupid and ridiculous. This doesn't even remotely make it 100% or even substantially their fault. Republicans still had to buy what he was selling. There is no walking around that responsibility. Democrats gave trump free air time, their blame extends only as far as that.

I agree states trying to remove trump from the ballot is over the line, but that isn't the initial act, it's a reactionary act to what trump did that was truly over the line. What is really over the line is a sitting president of the US asking his vice president to not just fail to certify an election with no actual evidence of election determinable fraud, but to outright overturn the results. Name a single thing any sitting democrat has done or tried to so that would be more damaging to the republic than had this worked.

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"Hmmm, if the tyrants are willing go this far to keep me from voting for that candidate than by god I'm going to support that candidate."

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The idea that the trump personality cult doesn't exist but for lawfare is nonsense. The trump cult far predates this.

The real fool is one who generally thinks anyone, anywhere in government is a more tyrannical threat than trump himself. Trump is such a narcissist he pretends he's never lost a single election anywhere. Even when he won he claimed fraud because he lost the popular vote. Trump constantly and blindly claiming fraud while never producing evidence has fundamentally undermined election credibility. And I'm someone who supports voter ID laws.

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And if I'm responsible for Trump than you are responsible for Biden. You really want to go there?

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It's adorable that trump supporters think we are worried about this. Biden isn't a personality cult. We just aren't worried about defending him, and even if obliged, you can take every negative thing he's said, done, or tried to do, and give 5 examples of trump for each one. Biden is a standard everyday Washington politician with all the bad that comes with. Trump is a delusional man child that's burned the bridge of virtually everyone he's ever worked with. If not for trump being his opponent Biden's chances would be terrible this round and probably last as well.

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LOL wow, OK man. The guy is easily the worst president in history if you even want to call him the president. It's pretty obvious he's a placeholder for whoever is actually calling the shots. His forte is supposedly foreign relations. It's one area that presidents have lots of influence over and he's taken a situation that was in great shape under Trump and turned it into a train wreck. He's even wrecked our relationship with Israel which is pretty hard to do. His Sec or State is goading Russia into a wider conflict. Destroying the energy industry. Leaving the strategic oil reserve empty, etc. You have a true stomach for risk if you aren't worried about four more years of Biden. Congrats I guess.

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This childlike hyperbole is why conservatives never find themselves at the adults table. To call him the worst president in history is to simply not know your history.

TxAgPreacher said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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TxAgPreacher said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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TxAgPreacher said:

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The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

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Deist language in the Declaration (not a legal document and not a governing document) is not proving your point. Where is your religion enshrined in the Constitution?

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You are the cherry picker. You are so dishonest. It's obvious the founders did not agree with you, so I'm not even going to engage.

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Lol. You don't have an argument. You're just posting random quotes. That's not an argument. That's barely evidence for an argument.

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I could post hundreds of quotes, but its a waste of time, because its so obviously absurd.

Yes the Christian men who have dozens of quotes about the bible being fundamentally important didn't use the bible in the way they governed.

It's so insane I know that even you don't believe that.

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Except last time you tried this with me you couldn't post hundreds of quotes and could only refer to a book written by a guy with a bachelor's of theology that is proven to be full of over a dozen completely made up quotes, that is discredited by conservative scholars and that is degraded by its own publisher which admits its full of lies.

TxAgPreacher said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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TxAgPreacher said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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TxAgPreacher said:

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Quote:

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The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

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Deist language in the Declaration (not a legal document and not a governing document) is not proving your point. Where is your religion enshrined in the Constitution?

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You are the cherry picker. You are so dishonest. It's obvious the founders did not agree with you, so I'm not even going to engage.

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Lol. You don't have an argument. You're just posting random quotes. That's not an argument. That's barely evidence for an argument.

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I could post hundreds of quotes, but its a waste of time, because its so obviously absurd.

Yes the Christian men who have dozens of quotes about the bible being fundamentally important didn't use the bible in the way they governed.

It's so insane I know that even you don't believe that.

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Quotes. All you have are decontextualized quotes. That's not an argument. Yes, plenty of framers were traditional Christians. They also, overwhelmingly though not universally, did not want a religiously-influenced government and looked towards pagan Rome and Greece for their ideas about a republican government.

Sapper Redux said:

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TxAgPreacher said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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TxAgPreacher said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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TxAgPreacher said:

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Quote:

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The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

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Deist language in the Declaration (not a legal document and not a governing document) is not proving your point. Where is your religion enshrined in the Constitution?

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You are the cherry picker. You are so dishonest. It's obvious the founders did not agree with you, so I'm not even going to engage.

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Lol. You don't have an argument. You're just posting random quotes. That's not an argument. That's barely evidence for an argument.

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I could post hundreds of quotes, but its a waste of time, because its so obviously absurd.

Yes the Christian men who have dozens of quotes about the bible being fundamentally important didn't use the bible in the way they governed.

It's so insane I know that even you don't believe that.

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Quotes. All you have are decontextualized quotes. That's not an argument. Yes, plenty of framers were traditional Christians. They also, overwhelmingly though not universally, did not want a religiously-influenced government and looked towards pagan Rome and Greece for their ideas about a republican government.

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Name five that were not deeply religious. Keep in mind diest of that day are far more religious than most "religious" today.

You really dont need the context when the statements speak for themselves. You're grasping at straws here.

For whatever its worth, back when the Constitution was written there was still a lot of tension between Catholics and Protestants, a lot of memories of fighting to install a king that would favor one side or the other...our founding fathers had enough problems without that religious rivalry, so its not surprising they just said let people be free to worship as they want.
But there was a time when certain states required church attendance, and even in the 1950's Texas still required businesses to close on Sundays.

I think we all know who's worldview precludes them from lying and who's does not.

I may be mistaken from time to time, but nothing stops you from lying all of the time.

The more I study history, the more I am of the mind that our founders were a mixed bag of Christians and Deists. I think this is a lot more complex than we are or are not a Christian nation. I think the freedom you all are talking about is a two way street. They envisioned the state free of any official religion, and they also envisioned personal liberties regarding religion.

Where things get muddy is that they clearly believed in the Judeo/Christian values as the center piece of our society. If we are not all following a similar set of moral guidelines, society will run off the rails. Everyone being their own moral police is not going to work.

With all that being said, I think the founders would in no way, shape, or form give credence to a transgender visibility day. Judeo/Christian guidelines are timeless and don't ebb and flow with the times.

So the question for me (as an evangelical Christian) is not if we are a Christian nation (we are not), but if we are going to rally around traditional Judeo/Christian precepts in order to form our society. I would argue that the founders intended this outcome, but that ship has obviously sailed.

I mostly agree. We are not a Christian nation.... ANYMORE.

But it was clearly made for Christians, by Christians originally.

Name 5 founders that were not religious.

10andBOUNCE said:

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religious =/= Christian

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The deism they had was rooted in the bible.

Aggrad08 said:

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HumpitPuryear said:

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Aggrad08 said:

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HumpitPuryear said:

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DOJ collaborating with Twitter to remove a candidate from their platform is over the line. States trying to bar a candidate from the ballot is over the line. The multiple cases of lawfare playing out is over the line. You're a fool if you can't see how people see that and don't think "Hmmm, if the tyrants are willing go this far to keep me from voting for that candidate than by god I'm going to support that candidate."

I'm a DeSantis supporter so I'm not goaltending for anyone. DeSantis supporters really wanted all of this Trump attention to stop. CNN should be called Trump TV. They were never interested in covering DeSantis and that hurt his campaign.

And if I'm responsible for Trump than you are responsible for Biden. You really want to go there?

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First off, your general point is fundamentally absurd. Yes the democrats elevated trump because they thought it profitable to give extra air time to Donald trump to help paint conservatives as stupid and ridiculous. This doesn't even remotely make it 100% or even substantially their fault. Republicans still had to buy what he was selling. There is no walking around that responsibility. Democrats gave trump free air time, their blame extends only as far as that.

I agree states trying to remove trump from the ballot is over the line, but that isn't the initial act, it's a reactionary act to what trump did that was truly over the line. What is really over the line is a sitting president of the US asking his vice president to not just fail to certify an election with no actual evidence of election determinable fraud, but to outright overturn the results. Name a single thing any sitting democrat has done or tried to so that would be more damaging to the republic than had this worked.

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"Hmmm, if the tyrants are willing go this far to keep me from voting for that candidate than by god I'm going to support that candidate."

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The idea that the trump personality cult doesn't exist but for lawfare is nonsense. The trump cult far predates this.

The real fool is one who generally thinks anyone, anywhere in government is a more tyrannical threat than trump himself. Trump is such a narcissist he pretends he's never lost a single election anywhere. Even when he won he claimed fraud because he lost the popular vote. Trump constantly and blindly claiming fraud while never producing evidence has fundamentally undermined election credibility. And I'm someone who supports voter ID laws.

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And if I'm responsible for Trump than you are responsible for Biden. You really want to go there?

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It's adorable that trump supporters think we are worried about this. Biden isn't a personality cult. We just aren't worried about defending him, and even if obliged, you can take every negative thing he's said, done, or tried to do, and give 5 examples of trump for each one. Biden is a standard everyday Washington politician with all the bad that comes with. Trump is a delusional man child that's burned the bridge of virtually everyone he's ever worked with. If not for trump being his opponent Biden's chances would be terrible this round and probably last as well.

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LOL wow, OK man. The guy is easily the worst president in history if you even want to call him the president. It's pretty obvious he's a placeholder for whoever is actually calling the shots. His forte is supposedly foreign relations. It's one area that presidents have lots of influence over and he's taken a situation that was in great shape under Trump and turned it into a train wreck. He's even wrecked our relationship with Israel which is pretty hard to do. His Sec or State is goading Russia into a wider conflict. Destroying the energy industry. Leaving the strategic oil reserve empty, etc. You have a true stomach for risk if you aren't worried about four more years of Biden. Congrats I guess.

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This childlike hyperbole is why conservatives never find themselves at the adults table. To call him the worst president in history is to simply not know your history.

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Trump will put the gays in camps.
Trump wants to dissolve the government and be king.
J6 is worse than 911. J6 is worse than the civil war.

Yeah, nothing hyperbolic from the left. Nothing to see here.

The whole point of my original post was about radicalization on the right. I didn't even mention Trump. Trump is a symptom not a cause. But lefties are so fixated on the man you can't have any meaningful discussion with them. Very adult behavior indeed.

10andBOUNCE said:

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shsuAg12 said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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religious =/= Christian

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The deism they had was rooted in the bible.

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I understand that, but it basically meant they picked and chose what they really believe as far as their own personal religious convictions. Many use the Bible as their moral compass but are far from God and are most definitely not Christian.

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Would anyone other than a deeply religious and devout man spend hours upon hours seeking for truth in the bible, and wrestling with it? Removing the parts that they didn't like, and clinging to the parts that they did?

And TJ is the main one they cite at deist. I find the argument extremely dishonest that they didn't base what they did on the bible.

The founders, who's religion I hate, and don't believe in, actually agree with me!

kurt vonnegut said:

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dermdoc said:

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kurt vonnegut said:

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Oh ,cool your jets. I was responding to the hyperbole of assigning 100% blame to democrats as though conservatives have exactly zero responsibility for their own actions.

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Well, just in this thread we have been called Christofascists, bigots, Nazis, etc. And it happens daily in the MSM.

And I do see the causal effect this has on conservative Christians.

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I might sympathize with you if you objected at all to the name call directed toward the other side. How many stars did you give to posts calling us sick, perverted, child grooming pedophiles?

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In this thread? Sorry must have missed it. I am citing actual things posted in this thread. There was even a link to the term bigot.

The problem is that your side and my side have totally different visions of what this country has been , is being, and will be.

Aggrad08 said:

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Yes our country is run by clowns-no argument from me. But that doesn't mean we should participate by making the same clownish arguments as long as it's in favor of the red or blue team.

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Ummm, I was talking about radicalization of the right. You're the one that made the clownish comment about Trump. I never mentioned Trump and only mentioned Biden related to his hostile comments about other Americans.

In my opinion Biden is the worst president at least in modern times. That's a statement of opinion, one held by a lot of Democrats as well as Republicans. I gave some quick examples of why I hold that opinion and why four more years is a risky proposition given the decline in the last three. You attacked me on my opinion and didn't address any of the facts supporting it. But I'm the crazy one. 10-4 little buddy. Have a nice weekend.