TxAgPreacher said:

---

kurt vonnegut said:

---

One of my very favorite quotes in the whole wide world is from the German pastor Martin Niemoller about his complicity after WW2.

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak outbecause I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak outbecause I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak outbecause I was not a Jew.
Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me.

This quote hits me hard right in the feels. And the sentiment here and the regret he speaks of represents so much that we aspire to. There is a meaning in here that speaks to the thing I love the most about and wish for the most from Christianity. And I think your positions on what legal actions should be taken against trans people represents everything I hate most and wish against from Christianity.

Luckily, I think you are in the minority even amongst Christians.

---

Got it I'm a nazi, or at least a sympathizer... ridiculous.

I'm trying to save them.

---

No, you're trying to force them to think like you or at least let you control their lives.

Sapper Redux said:

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AGC said:

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kurt vonnegut said:

---

AGC said:

---

kurt vonnegut said:

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AGC said:

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Right but the opposite could also be true which is the risk in you drawing a conclusion based on what you, Kurt, think now. What about gender confused people who didn't have the opportunity kids do today for surgery and intervention, but grew out of it? How would you quantify the number of those people whose lives are immeasurably better because we didn't think it was 'good' or worth doing to indulge that idea? That's why projection (anachronism) isn't a useful tool for discussion.

---

Everything you stated above is true. However, its obviously a strawman as I did not state that EVERY LGBTQ person is better off now than they were back . . . . whenever we are talking about. I merely said that it depends on who you ask.

---

Why would someone who had gender dysphoria but grew out of it be included in lgbt+? Part of my point is that not everyone actually had it but today they would have been considered to be. Even now, the people you could ask think differently about themselves (Eddie Izzard for example). It's liquid modernity, it's not a question with a meaningful answer because everything has changed in their lifetime. They may have been content but now reframe it, despite being fine in the past.

---

You are still fighting a strawman.

My comment boils down to 'social change is perceived differently by different people'. Can you respond to just that comment?

---

Sure. Why would an individual or incredibly small group be an adequate or accurate representation of whether things are better, as opposed to other measures like social cohesion, general societal happiness, etc.?

---

These are the excuses made by all kinds of totalitarian regimes from empires to fascists to communists.

---

Those regimes also experimented on children and broke up families who disagreed with their state propaganda. You're right, the modern left's trans movement has a lot in common with them.

Edit: do you have anything besides ad hominems to offer?

That's not an ad hominem. Thats a simple fact. Stepping on the rights of individuals in the name of "social cohesion" and morality is a calling card of totalitarianism.

TxAgPreacher said:

---

kurt vonnegut said:

---

One of my very favorite quotes in the whole wide world is from the German pastor Martin Niemoller about his complicity after WW2.

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak outbecause I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak outbecause I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak outbecause I was not a Jew.
Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me.

This quote hits me hard right in the feels. And the sentiment here and the regret he speaks of represents so much that we aspire to. There is a meaning in here that speaks to the thing I love the most about and wish for the most from Christianity. And I think your positions on what legal actions should be taken against trans people represents everything I hate most and wish against from Christianity.

Luckily, I think you are in the minority even amongst Christians.

---

Got it I'm a nazi, or at least a sympathizer... ridiculous.

I'm trying to save them.

---

Nope, never said Nazi. I'm saying you've failed to learn the lesson that our German pastor friendlearned.

Do these people get a choice in whether they want to be saved by you? You aren't trying to save anyone. You are trying to force them to be saved. There is a massive difference.

Like I said before, these conversations only work when both people have enough humility to admit to the possibility they are wrong. Since you do not, we have nowhere to go.

Also, we need to stop making this about child sex change surgery and child hormone therapy. This is about basic level 'mind your own damn business'.

BluHorseShu said:

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I do, however, find it a little funny when we talk about sodomy laws as if it's only the LGBTQ community that it is intended for. Wonder how many married hetero couples engage in the disgusting practice and think nothing of it but are disgusted when non-hetero's engage in it. It's wrong...all the way around and a bit hypocritical to assume hetero couples don't do it.

---

If sodomy includes anal or oral sex, then I would be shocked if the number of Christians in this country regularly engaging in sodomy isn't in range of multiple tens of millions of Christians.

If the hard core Christians pushed for laws and regulations against non-LGBTQ sins the way they push against LGBTQ sins, you'd have an overnight revolution and cries of government overreach. And it would be lead by the moderate Christians. That's why no one gives a **** about heterosexual sodomy.

kurt vonnegut said:

---

TxAgPreacher said:

---

kurt vonnegut said:

---

One of my very favorite quotes in the whole wide world is from the German pastor Martin Niemoller about his complicity after WW2.

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak outbecause I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak outbecause I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak outbecause I was not a Jew.
Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me.

This quote hits me hard right in the feels. And the sentiment here and the regret he speaks of represents so much that we aspire to. There is a meaning in here that speaks to the thing I love the most about and wish for the most from Christianity. And I think your positions on what legal actions should be taken against trans people represents everything I hate most and wish against from Christianity.

Luckily, I think you are in the minority even amongst Christians.

---

Got it I'm a nazi, or at least a sympathizer... ridiculous.

I'm trying to save them.

---

Nope, never said Nazi. I'm saying you've failed to learn the lesson that our German pastor friendlearned.

Do these people get a choice in whether they want to be saved by you? You aren't trying to save anyone. You are trying to force them to be saved. There is a massive difference.

Like I said before, these conversations only work when both people have enough humility to admit to the possibility they are wrong. Since you do not, we have nowhere to go.

Also, we need to stop making this about child sex change surgery and child hormone therapy. This is about basic level 'mind your own damn business'.

---

I take back all the nice things I said earlier. That is a real weasel move. Oh I didnt say nazi just ww2 and a pastor who was "complicit"

Just nasty.

I'm not a totalitarian. I'm thoughtful, rational, and trying to help the mentally I'll. They are in no position to make this decision because of their illness.

You certainly were painting me that way and I don't appreciate the insinuation, or the dishonest denial.

I just want to go back to the basic structure of the founding. Its not radical it's the way the world has been forever. Your new stuff is the tyranny of tolerance pushed by propaganda.

It's not my fault you reject basic truths of what is harmful. I do not find that compassionate at all. I find it brutal, and a willful ignorance. Outcomes be damned.

TxAgPreacher said:

---

kurt vonnegut said:

---

TxAgPreacher said:

---

kurt vonnegut said:

---

One of my very favorite quotes in the whole wide world is from the German pastor Martin Niemoller about his complicity after WW2.

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak outbecause I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak outbecause I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak outbecause I was not a Jew.
Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me.

This quote hits me hard right in the feels. And the sentiment here and the regret he speaks of represents so much that we aspire to. There is a meaning in here that speaks to the thing I love the most about and wish for the most from Christianity. And I think your positions on what legal actions should be taken against trans people represents everything I hate most and wish against from Christianity.

Luckily, I think you are in the minority even amongst Christians.

---

Got it I'm a nazi, or at least a sympathizer... ridiculous.

I'm trying to save them.

---

Nope, never said Nazi. I'm saying you've failed to learn the lesson that our German pastor friendlearned.

Do these people get a choice in whether they want to be saved by you? You aren't trying to save anyone. You are trying to force them to be saved. There is a massive difference.

Like I said before, these conversations only work when both people have enough humility to admit to the possibility they are wrong. Since you do not, we have nowhere to go.

Also, we need to stop making this about child sex change surgery and child hormone therapy. This is about basic level 'mind your own damn business'.

---

I take back all the nice things I said earlier. That is a real weasel move. Oh I didnt say nazi just ww2 and a pastor who was "complicit"

Just nasty.

I'm not a totalitarian. I'm thoughtful, rational, and trying to help the mentally I'll. They are in no position to make this decision because of their illness.

You certainly were painting me that way and I don't appreciate the insinuation, or the dishonest denial.

I just want to go back to the basic structure of the founding. Its not radical it's the way the world has been forever. Your new stuff is the tyranny of tolerance pushed by propaganda.

It's not my fault you reject basic truths of what is harmful. I do not find that compassionate at all. I find it brutal, and a willful ignorance. Outcomes be damned.

---

I do think this is a big crux of the problem. You and many like you are under some illusion that you have some idea of the way things should be based on some delusion about the way they were.

The reality is things never really were the way you thought they were and they really weren't "the good old days."

"Also, we need to stop making this about child sex change surgery and child hormone therapy. This is about basic level 'mind your own damn business'. "

You would like that wouldn't you? Just ignore this and cutting parents out of the decision, drag queen story time, men in women's sports, explicit books in the library, etc. let's just ignore all of the disgusting degeneracy that's causing the public backlash. Nothing to see here but bigoted Christians.

Sapper Redux said:

---

That's not an ad hominem. Thats a simple fact. Stepping on the rights of individuals in the name of "social cohesion" and morality is a calling card of totalitarianism.

---

So like the trans movement that socially transitions kids without notifying parents or takes them from their homes for not being affirming?

Just stop digging man. It's embarrassing how desperately you want someone else to be the bad guy when they react to your tyranny.

Macarthur said:

---

TxAgPreacher said:

---

kurt vonnegut said:

---

TxAgPreacher said:

---

kurt vonnegut said:

---

One of my very favorite quotes in the whole wide world is from the German pastor Martin Niemoller about his complicity after WW2.

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak outbecause I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak outbecause I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak outbecause I was not a Jew.
Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me.

This quote hits me hard right in the feels. And the sentiment here and the regret he speaks of represents so much that we aspire to. There is a meaning in here that speaks to the thing I love the most about and wish for the most from Christianity. And I think your positions on what legal actions should be taken against trans people represents everything I hate most and wish against from Christianity.

Luckily, I think you are in the minority even amongst Christians.

---

Got it I'm a nazi, or at least a sympathizer... ridiculous.

I'm trying to save them.

---

Nope, never said Nazi. I'm saying you've failed to learn the lesson that our German pastor friendlearned.

Do these people get a choice in whether they want to be saved by you? You aren't trying to save anyone. You are trying to force them to be saved. There is a massive difference.

Like I said before, these conversations only work when both people have enough humility to admit to the possibility they are wrong. Since you do not, we have nowhere to go.

Also, we need to stop making this about child sex change surgery and child hormone therapy. This is about basic level 'mind your own damn business'.

---

I take back all the nice things I said earlier. That is a real weasel move. Oh I didnt say nazi just ww2 and a pastor who was "complicit"

Just nasty.

I'm not a totalitarian. I'm thoughtful, rational, and trying to help the mentally I'll. They are in no position to make this decision because of their illness.

You certainly were painting me that way and I don't appreciate the insinuation, or the dishonest denial.

I just want to go back to the basic structure of the founding. Its not radical it's the way the world has been forever. Your new stuff is the tyranny of tolerance pushed by propaganda.

It's not my fault you reject basic truths of what is harmful. I do not find that compassionate at all. I find it brutal, and a willful ignorance. Outcomes be damned.

---

I do think this is a big crux of the problem. You and many like you are under some illusion that you have some idea of the way things should be based on some delusion about the way they were.

The reality is things never really were the way you thought they were and they really weren't "the good old days."

---

LOL Dude, we're old. We KNOW how things used to be, we were there! Get out with your gaslighting. We didn't have to worry about a middle school teacher suggesting we were the wrong sex and offering to help us transition without telling our parents. That just never happened. We never had a frightening oversexualized clown come to the library to read us books.

The gender- confused calling other people delusional. Man, you got some stones whether you want them or not, LOL.

You guys have to get off libs of tik tok. It's rotting your brain.

AGC said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

That's not an ad hominem. Thats a simple fact. Stepping on the rights of individuals in the name of "social cohesion" and morality is a calling card of totalitarianism.

---

So like the trans movement that socially transitions kids without notifying parents or takes them from their homes for not being affirming?

Just stop digging man. It's embarrassing how desperately you want someone else to be the bad guy when they react to your tyranny.

---

The way you sidestep the abuse faced by many LGBTQ kids to try and blame others is impressive. Almost as impressive as how you're ignoring the totalitarian tendencies in your argument.

HumpitPuryear said:

---

Macarthur said:

---

TxAgPreacher said:

---

kurt vonnegut said:

---

TxAgPreacher said:

---

kurt vonnegut said:

---

One of my very favorite quotes in the whole wide world is from the German pastor Martin Niemoller about his complicity after WW2.

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak outbecause I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak outbecause I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak outbecause I was not a Jew.
Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me.

This quote hits me hard right in the feels. And the sentiment here and the regret he speaks of represents so much that we aspire to. There is a meaning in here that speaks to the thing I love the most about and wish for the most from Christianity. And I think your positions on what legal actions should be taken against trans people represents everything I hate most and wish against from Christianity.

Luckily, I think you are in the minority even amongst Christians.

---

Got it I'm a nazi, or at least a sympathizer... ridiculous.

I'm trying to save them.

---

Nope, never said Nazi. I'm saying you've failed to learn the lesson that our German pastor friendlearned.

Do these people get a choice in whether they want to be saved by you? You aren't trying to save anyone. You are trying to force them to be saved. There is a massive difference.

Like I said before, these conversations only work when both people have enough humility to admit to the possibility they are wrong. Since you do not, we have nowhere to go.

Also, we need to stop making this about child sex change surgery and child hormone therapy. This is about basic level 'mind your own damn business'.

---

I take back all the nice things I said earlier. That is a real weasel move. Oh I didnt say nazi just ww2 and a pastor who was "complicit"

Just nasty.

I'm not a totalitarian. I'm thoughtful, rational, and trying to help the mentally I'll. They are in no position to make this decision because of their illness.

You certainly were painting me that way and I don't appreciate the insinuation, or the dishonest denial.

I just want to go back to the basic structure of the founding. Its not radical it's the way the world has been forever. Your new stuff is the tyranny of tolerance pushed by propaganda.

It's not my fault you reject basic truths of what is harmful. I do not find that compassionate at all. I find it brutal, and a willful ignorance. Outcomes be damned.

---

I do think this is a big crux of the problem. You and many like you are under some illusion that you have some idea of the way things should be based on some delusion about the way they were.

The reality is things never really were the way you thought they were and they really weren't "the good old days."

---

LOL Dude, we're old. We KNOW how things used to be, we were there! Get out with your gaslighting. We didn't have to worry about a middle school teacher suggesting we were the wrong sex and offering to help us transition without telling our parents. That just never happened. We never had a frightening oversexualized clown come to the library to read us books.

The gender- confused calling other people delusional. Man, you got some stones whether you want them or not, LOL.

---

Another impressive example of assuming everything was fine because you personally weren't harmed by what happened.

Macarthur said:

---

You guys have to get off libs of tik tok. It's rotting your brain.

---

Glad to see that you don't deny any of the things you don't want discussed

Sapper Redux said:

---

HumpitPuryear said:

---

Macarthur said:

---

TxAgPreacher said:

---

kurt vonnegut said:

---

TxAgPreacher said:

---

kurt vonnegut said:

---

One of my very favorite quotes in the whole wide world is from the German pastor Martin Niemoller about his complicity after WW2.

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak outbecause I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak outbecause I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak outbecause I was not a Jew.
Then they came for meand there was no one left to speak for me.

This quote hits me hard right in the feels. And the sentiment here and the regret he speaks of represents so much that we aspire to. There is a meaning in here that speaks to the thing I love the most about and wish for the most from Christianity. And I think your positions on what legal actions should be taken against trans people represents everything I hate most and wish against from Christianity.

Luckily, I think you are in the minority even amongst Christians.

---

Got it I'm a nazi, or at least a sympathizer... ridiculous.

I'm trying to save them.

---

Nope, never said Nazi. I'm saying you've failed to learn the lesson that our German pastor friendlearned.

Do these people get a choice in whether they want to be saved by you? You aren't trying to save anyone. You are trying to force them to be saved. There is a massive difference.

Like I said before, these conversations only work when both people have enough humility to admit to the possibility they are wrong. Since you do not, we have nowhere to go.

Also, we need to stop making this about child sex change surgery and child hormone therapy. This is about basic level 'mind your own damn business'.

---

I take back all the nice things I said earlier. That is a real weasel move. Oh I didnt say nazi just ww2 and a pastor who was "complicit"

Just nasty.

I'm not a totalitarian. I'm thoughtful, rational, and trying to help the mentally I'll. They are in no position to make this decision because of their illness.

You certainly were painting me that way and I don't appreciate the insinuation, or the dishonest denial.

I just want to go back to the basic structure of the founding. Its not radical it's the way the world has been forever. Your new stuff is the tyranny of tolerance pushed by propaganda.

It's not my fault you reject basic truths of what is harmful. I do not find that compassionate at all. I find it brutal, and a willful ignorance. Outcomes be damned.

---

I do think this is a big crux of the problem. You and many like you are under some illusion that you have some idea of the way things should be based on some delusion about the way they were.

The reality is things never really were the way you thought they were and they really weren't "the good old days."

---

LOL Dude, we're old. We KNOW how things used to be, we were there! Get out with your gaslighting. We didn't have to worry about a middle school teacher suggesting we were the wrong sex and offering to help us transition without telling our parents. That just never happened. We never had a frightening oversexualized clown come to the library to read us books.

The gender- confused calling other people delusional. Man, you got some stones whether you want them or not, LOL.

---

Another impressive example of assuming everything was fine because you personally weren't harmed by what happened.

---

None of the stuff that you want normalized was allowed to happen. Did trans degenerates occasionally diddle a kid or worse? Sure but society didn't tolerate it and for good and clear reason. You are the one that's delusional.

Sapper Redux said:

---

AGC said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

That's not an ad hominem. Thats a simple fact. Stepping on the rights of individuals in the name of "social cohesion" and morality is a calling card of totalitarianism.

---

So like the trans movement that socially transitions kids without notifying parents or takes them from their homes for not being affirming?

Just stop digging man. It's embarrassing how desperately you want someone else to be the bad guy when they react to your tyranny.

---

The way you sidestep the abuse faced by many LGBTQ kids to try and blame others is impressive. Almost as impressive as how you're ignoring the totalitarian tendencies in your argument.

---

Literally no one here wants any kid bullied. You are lying as usual. One of our fundamental issues with what you advocate it's the irreparable damage done to kids in the name of the movement. We are protecting children FROM YOU!

barbacoa taco said:

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CrackerJackAg said:

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barbacoa taco said:

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CrackerJackAg said:

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Rocag said:

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In American Christianity, persecution is when other people don't inconvenience themselves to make accommodations for you.

This day is every March 31st. Get over yourselves.

---

As a Christian Easter Sunday is sacred and only to be celebrated as such. I understand this is a secular country and respect that.

Therefore:

As an American and a human I find transgender recognition day disgusting. I think it's icky and gross and I don't want to recognize or know them. They do not deserve violence or attacks of any kind. They should be able to live their lives peacefully as they choose. Everyone else should be able to live theirs without having to "recognize" them or celebrate them or even acknowledge them.

It's sick.

---

then don't recognize the day. no one cares.

I'm so damn tired of all this fake outrage. All the outrage over trans visibility day was pure manufactured outrage. I'm so over it. It's on March 31 every year, and happened to coincide with Easter this year and won't again until 2086. so what. Christians don't own that day. It didn't take away anyone's right to celebrate Easter and go to church. it only affected people who wanted to be affected by it.

in a normal world we'd all just see it and say "oh. ok." then go about our Easter. but we don't live in a normal world. we live in a world where everything is terrible and outrageous and we have to throw a hissy fit over everything that hurts our fee fees.

and Trump, a guy who has never touched a Bible in his life (other than the ones he tried to scam people with last week of course), threw a fit on social media over this just to rile up conservatives and get them all angry and pissed off and hating everyone who isn't in their tribe. Keep in mind, he has ZERO good intentions here. He does not give a flying molecular **** about Easter. He's just pandering to evangelicals to say "omg Biden bad. transgender bad. transgender want to take away Jesus."

i'm so over this ***** everyone who's still mad about this and let it ruin their Easter is a miserable person anyway.

---

I think I made it clear that I understand as a secular country that Easter has nothing to do with it.

I would just like to double down on the fact that I think it's gross, and I do not believe it to be worthy of any recognition, as if it was an accomplishment to have gender dysmorphia.

There is no fake outrage. I think it's wrong that our government is pushing these type of ideologies and trying to make them a normal and respectable behavior.

It's a mental illness and a vile disgusting one at that.

---

There is definitely fake outrage. Fox News was reporting on this so much they may as well have said "hello viewers, please be outraged at this thing." Then all the crying from conservatives on twitter about how Biden and the Democrats are "out to get" Christians and eradicate Christianity. It's such annoying hyperbole and hyperventilating, and it's insulting to everyone's intelligence.

I really do not care how you feel about trans day of visibility. There are stupid holidays or days of recognition for everything. Today is Autism Awareness Day. did you know that? I didn't until I googled it. April 5 is International Day of Conscience (whatever that means). point being there's a silly thing to recognize every day of the year, why would trans day be different? Oh, because it's a touchy issue that riles people up. That's the only reason.

And no, it's not because it happened to fall on Easter. Easter can be any day from like March 23 to April 25. So any made up day that falls within that period will fall on Easter at some point. Big frickin' deal.

---

No fake outrage. I don't care about the holiday thing. That's whatever.

My actual outrage is that the government wants to virtue signal over something I find vile and disgusting and unworthy of recognition.

That's the only outrage.

HumpitPuryear said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

AGC said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

That's not an ad hominem. Thats a simple fact. Stepping on the rights of individuals in the name of "social cohesion" and morality is a calling card of totalitarianism.

---

So like the trans movement that socially transitions kids without notifying parents or takes them from their homes for not being affirming?

Just stop digging man. It's embarrassing how desperately you want someone else to be the bad guy when they react to your tyranny.

---

The way you sidestep the abuse faced by many LGBTQ kids to try and blame others is impressive. Almost as impressive as how you're ignoring the totalitarian tendencies in your argument.

---

Literally no one here wants any kid bullied. You are lying as usual. One of our fundamental issues with what you advocate it's the irreparable damage done to kids in the name of the movement. We are protecting children FROM YOU!

---

You're making violence against LGBTQ kids easier and turning a blind eye to it because they have a "mental illness." Nothing I've seen conservatives propose actually helps LGBTQ people. It just ostracizes them and provides tacit permission to demean and harm them.

There you go making violence by LGBTQ kids more likely.
See how that works?

Sapper Redux said:

---

HumpitPuryear said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

AGC said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

That's not an ad hominem. Thats a simple fact. Stepping on the rights of individuals in the name of "social cohesion" and morality is a calling card of totalitarianism.

---

So like the trans movement that socially transitions kids without notifying parents or takes them from their homes for not being affirming?

Just stop digging man. It's embarrassing how desperately you want someone else to be the bad guy when they react to your tyranny.

---

The way you sidestep the abuse faced by many LGBTQ kids to try and blame others is impressive. Almost as impressive as how you're ignoring the totalitarian tendencies in your argument.

---

Literally no one here wants any kid bullied. You are lying as usual. One of our fundamental issues with what you advocate it's the irreparable damage done to kids in the name of the movement. We are protecting children FROM YOU!

---

You're making violence against LGBTQ kids easier and turning a blind eye to it because they have a "mental illness." Nothing I've seen conservatives propose actually helps LGBTQ people. It just ostracizes them and provides tacit permission to demean and harm them.

---

Mild bullying (non violent)has its place amongst children. It's how people learn to adapt to group norms and "toughen up" a bit during child hood.

Shame, in healthy doses, needs to make a come back in this country.

Kids are growing up without being told they are thought of as freak shows and end up surprised when they grow up and society doesn't care for them.

Trans whatever's grow up and find out that men don't want to date them. The shock!!

Kid should have been told ten years prior.

Sapper Redux said:

---

HumpitPuryear said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

AGC said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

That's not an ad hominem. Thats a simple fact. Stepping on the rights of individuals in the name of "social cohesion" and morality is a calling card of totalitarianism.

---

So like the trans movement that socially transitions kids without notifying parents or takes them from their homes for not being affirming?

Just stop digging man. It's embarrassing how desperately you want someone else to be the bad guy when they react to your tyranny.

---

The way you sidestep the abuse faced by many LGBTQ kids to try and blame others is impressive. Almost as impressive as how you're ignoring the totalitarian tendencies in your argument.

---

Literally no one here wants any kid bullied. You are lying as usual. One of our fundamental issues with what you advocate it's the irreparable damage done to kids in the name of the movement. We are protecting children FROM YOU!

---

You're making violence against LGBTQ kids easier and turning a blind eye to it because they have a "mental illness." Nothing I've seen conservatives propose actually helps LGBTQ people. It just ostracizes them and provides tacit permission to demean and harm them.

---

Strawman, much?

CrackerJackAg said:

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Sapper Redux said:

---

HumpitPuryear said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

---

AGC said:

---

Sapper Redux said:

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That's not an ad hominem. Thats a simple fact. Stepping on the rights of individuals in the name of "social cohesion" and morality is a calling card of totalitarianism.

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So like the trans movement that socially transitions kids without notifying parents or takes them from their homes for not being affirming?

Just stop digging man. It's embarrassing how desperately you want someone else to be the bad guy when they react to your tyranny.

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The way you sidestep the abuse faced by many LGBTQ kids to try and blame others is impressive. Almost as impressive as how you're ignoring the totalitarian tendencies in your argument.

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Literally no one here wants any kid bullied. You are lying as usual. One of our fundamental issues with what you advocate it's the irreparable damage done to kids in the name of the movement. We are protecting children FROM YOU!

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You're making violence against LGBTQ kids easier and turning a blind eye to it because they have a "mental illness." Nothing I've seen conservatives propose actually helps LGBTQ people. It just ostracizes them and provides tacit permission to demean and harm them.

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Mild bullying (non violent)has its place amongst children. It's how people learn to adapt to group norms and "toughen up" a bit during child hood.

Shame, in healthy doses, needs to make a come back in this country.

Kids are growing up without being told they are thought of as freak shows and end up surprised when they grow up and society doesn't care for them.

Trans whatever's grow up and find out that men don't want to date them. The shock!!

Kid should have been told ten years prior.

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Ah, so kids NEED to have violence visited on them because of who they are. So that your norms can be enforced. Lovely.

HumpitPuryear said:

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"Also, we need to stop making this about child sex change surgery and child hormone therapy. This is about basic level 'mind your own damn business'. "

You would like that wouldn't you? Just ignore this and cutting parents out of the decision, drag queen story time, men in women's sports, explicit books in the library, etc. let's just ignore all of the disgusting degeneracy that's causing the public backlash. Nothing to see here but bigoted Christians.

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I have explicitly argued against cutting parents out of the decision, transitioning kids, and trans women in sports. I've been to a drag queen story time and its freaking hilarious what Christians think it is versus what it actually is. And I'm okay with removing explicit books as long as we can define the terms and apply the same rules to books about straight people.

You are deliberately misrepresenting my position.

TxAgPreacher said:

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I take back all the nice things I said earlier. That is a real weasel move. Oh I didnt say nazi just ww2 and a pastor who was "complicit"

Just nasty.

I'm not a totalitarian. I'm thoughtful, rational, and trying to help the mentally I'll. They are in no position to make this decision because of their illness.

You certainly were painting me that way and I don't appreciate the insinuation, or the dishonest denial.

I just want to go back to the basic structure of the founding. Its not radical it's the way the world has been forever. Your new stuff is the tyranny of tolerance pushed by propaganda.

It's not my fault you reject basic truths of what is harmful. I do not find that compassionate at all. I find it brutal, and a willful ignorance. Outcomes be damned.

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I'll be perfectly honest, my choice in using Martin Niemoller's quote had nothing to do with its association with Nazi Germany. I legitimately love that quote.

Totalitarianism is by definition a form of government that attempts to assert total control over its citizens. All laws and rules are some form of control, but to me, the thing that makes some governments less totalitarian than others is a) willingness to listen and represent the will of the citizens and b) maximizing individual freedoms. The second is important I think

Take something like blasphemy. There is zero debate that blasphemy against the Christian God is bad and immoral by the moral standards set by Christianity. But, it is not illegal here (at least not any more). My use of blasphemy does not impede your rights. But a law against blasphemy would limit my rights. It is a law with a clear net negative in social rights. It is a law about moral control and its a law you see in totalitarian countries throughout the Middle East, Russia, Korea. . .

I've already made it clear that I do not support transitioning children - my concern is an adult who wishes to transition or otherwise live a lifestyle as a different gender. Laws that would permit an adult to do as they wish does not impede your rights. But it does limit the rights of others. It is also a law with a net negative in rights.

I am not calling you a fascist or a totalitarian. I absolutely think that the laws you would promote are in this case. Perhaps in other aspects, you are not. But, we can find out. Let me list a bunch of 'sins' and you tell me whether or not they should be made illegal.

Adultery
Sex before marriage
Divorce
Rejection of God
Worshipping a false God
Not going to church on Sunday
Blasphemy
Laziness
Greed
Drunkeness
Gluttony
Lying (not under oath or on official documents, etc.)
Lust
Gossip
Bigotry
Apathy
Selfishness
Vanity
Jealousy

I think the problem with the metal illness argument is that you need to be able to define mental illness in a concrete way and then apply it equally to anyone and everyone in order for it to be consistent.

An argument can be made for taking action against someone who has a mental illness who is liable to physically harm themselves or kill themselves. I don't think this applies to trans persons. And if it does, then I think you need to apply the same standard to anyone wishing to get plastic surgery.

Mental illness cannot simply be the excuse for someone being different from you or having a different worldview. There are actual diagnosable mental disorders like depression, bipolar disorder, OCD, phobias, eating disorders, PSTD, schizophrenia, and all other manners of personality and mental disorders. With the exception of people who present a clear and existential threat to themselves, we let all of these mentally ill people choose treatment or choose no treatment.

HumpitPuryear said:

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What is preventing an adult from transitioning if they want to?

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Preacher was advocating for changing laws and treating trans people as mentally ill and preventing them from being able to transition.

kurt vonnegut said:

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TxAgPreacher said:

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I take back all the nice things I said earlier. That is a real weasel move. Oh I didnt say nazi just ww2 and a pastor who was "complicit"

Just nasty.

I'm not a totalitarian. I'm thoughtful, rational, and trying to help the mentally I'll. They are in no position to make this decision because of their illness.

You certainly were painting me that way and I don't appreciate the insinuation, or the dishonest denial.

I just want to go back to the basic structure of the founding. Its not radical it's the way the world has been forever. Your new stuff is the tyranny of tolerance pushed by propaganda.

It's not my fault you reject basic truths of what is harmful. I do not find that compassionate at all. I find it brutal, and a willful ignorance. Outcomes be damned.

---

I'll be perfectly honest, my choice in using Martin Niemoller's quote had nothing to do with its association with Nazi Germany. I legitimately love that quote.

Totalitarianism is by definition a form of government that attempts to assert total control over its citizens. All laws and rules are some form of control, but to me, the thing that makes some governments less totalitarian than others is a) willingness to listen and represent the will of the citizens and b) maximizing individual freedoms. The second is important I think

Take something like blasphemy. There is zero debate that blasphemy against the Christian God is bad and immoral by the moral standards set by Christianity. But, it is not illegal here (at least not any more). My use of blasphemy does not impede your rights. But a law against blasphemy would limit my rights. It is a law with a clear net negative in social rights. It is a law about moral control and its a law you see in totalitarian countries throughout the Middle East, Russia, Korea. . .

I've already made it clear that I do not support transitioning children - my concern is an adult who wishes to transition or otherwise live a lifestyle as a different gender. Laws that would permit an adult to do as they wish does not impede your rights. But it does limit the rights of others. It is also a law with a net negative in rights.

I am not calling you a fascist or a totalitarian. I absolutely think that the laws you would promote are in this case. Perhaps in other aspects, you are not. But, we can find out. Let me list a bunch of 'sins' and you tell me whether or not they should be made illegal.

Adultery
Sex before marriage
Divorce
Rejection of God
Worshipping a false God
Not going to church on Sunday
Blasphemy
Laziness
Greed
Drunkeness
Gluttony
Lying (not under oath or on official documents, etc.)
Lust
Gossip
Bigotry
Apathy
Selfishness
Vanity
Jealousy

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To my knowledge, none of your list of sins are taught as normal behavior in schools or in society. As I have mentioned before, there are no days or months celebrating adultery or any of the other sins you listed.

And nobody is saying that any of the sins listed are good and to be celebrated.

Sapper Redux said:

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That's not an ad hominem. Thats a simple fact. Stepping on the rights of individuals in the name of "social cohesion" and morality is a calling card of totalitarianism.

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Every law or legislation steps on the "rights" of some individuals.

You still misunderstand the causal effect here. There are no days or months celebrating adultery or those other sins because Christians aren't trying to legislate against them.

Imagine what would happen if Christians said that being Hindu was immoral and therefore Hindus are not permitted to wear Hindu clothing to school or in public, serve in the military, or have Hindu characters in books that exist in schools? I guaruntee you'd see some Hindu pride days pop up. Of course that won't happen. And it won't happen because apparently rejection of God and worshipping a false God is okay. But 'pretending' to be a different gender. . . . well, thats where we have to draw the line, right?

dermdoc said:

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And nobody is saying that any of the sins listed are good and to be celebrated.

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Did I ask you to celebrate them?