The intellectual dishonesty implicit in FS and in its defenders after the fact is telling. I don't actually think the Curia is quite this obtuse, but I can't think of what they would actually hope to accomplish.

Terminus Est said:

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Cardinal Fernandez responded to some poignant questions proffered by The Pillar with one of the most bizarre answers I've ever seen. As always it seems that the most gerrymandered convoluted examples are given to justify the other 99.99% of situations that are objectively sinful

Quote:

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As I was saying, sometimes the priest, on a pilgrimage, does not know that couple, and sometimes they are two very close friends who share good things, sometimes they had sexual relations in the past and now what remains is a strong sense of belonging and mutual help. As a parish priest, I have often met such couples, who are sometimes exemplary.
Therefore, since it is not a question of the sacrament of confession(!), but of a simple blessing, it is still asked that this friendship be purified, matured and lived in fidelity to the Gospel. And even if there was some kind of sexual relationship, known or not, the blessing made in this way does not validate or justify anything.

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So you've got a random priest on a pilgrimage who is spontaneously asked by two dudes who he doesn't know for a blessing, and while they used to have sex, are now josephite friend bros who cohabitate and share good things.

The only good stuff from the article is that it seems a crackdown on the German church is coming and the Vatican is definitely feeling the heat from the different sources

https://www.pillarcatholic.com/p/cardinal-fernandez-same-sex-blessing

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Convoluted and bizarre. So, a trend I have noticed over the years... we are so focused on the exceptions, not the normative law. Take for instance the doctrine Extra Ecclesium Nulla Salus. We are immediately met with tons of "buts" and "what ifs". This is a law binding for us, not our Lord. It is the surest way to the beatific vision. Do this and you should be set. He can act outside of said law. So many calories are spent justifying our desired exceptions rather than buckling down and trying to live according to Our Blessed Lord's Divine Will. We have yet to descend into the absurdity of withholding water baptism and aiming for baptism of desire or fire. Here with FS and Cardinal Fernandez, we set about looking for excuses for sin rather than facing it and trying to conquer it. It's a similar phenomenon that Lawler discussed in his article linked earlier. Living in the exceptions... seeking the bare minimum... strikes me as vomitous lukewarmness.

TheGreatEscape said:

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This is one of the problems with my conservative Catholic allies; each one of them thinks they are a little Pope.

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Hahaha... No. You give to more to the petrine office than Vatican I intended. Like Pablo Serna.

747Ag said:

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TheGreatEscape said:

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This is one of the problems with my conservative Catholic allies; each one of them thinks they are a little Pope.

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Hahaha... No. You give to more to the petrine office than Vatican I intended. Like Pablo Serna.

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My tongue in cheek comment receives a tongue in cheek response. Very well done, good sir.

AgLiving06 said:

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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/blasphemous-sex-nativity-scene-angers-conservatives-italy-rcna131066

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Heretics

747Ag said:

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AgLiving06 said:

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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/blasphemous-sex-nativity-scene-angers-conservatives-italy-rcna131066

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Heretics

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Lol

Catholic priest delivers the equivalent of the "Sparkle Creed"

Even boldly proclaims this in line with Francis' line of thinking

Lololol

Your move, Rome

Lol

Captain Pablo said:

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747Ag said:

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AgLiving06 said:

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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/blasphemous-sex-nativity-scene-angers-conservatives-italy-rcna131066

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Heretics

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Lol

Catholic priest delivers the equivalent of the "Sparkle Creed"

Even boldly proclaims this in line with Francis' line of thinking

Lololol

Your move, Rome

Lol

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I am sure he is being fitted for a Mitre at this moment with this pontificate.

AgLiving06 said:

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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/blasphemous-sex-nativity-scene-angers-conservatives-italy-rcna131066

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This is what happens when the Pope sows confusion amongst the Church

It can be argued Paul VI opened the window to let the smoke in.
When the person who is supposed to defend the Faith uses his authority to distort the Faith. To bless what is wicked. To say what is good is bad. To misuse the authority that is given by Christ is an usurpation regardless of how he obtained the seat, which lets face it in the best of light was irregular. To try to push anyone who disagrees with this pope into the blanket category of a sedevacantesist is dishonest to say the least. He came in joking about causing a schism and has done his damnest since saying it.

PabloSerna said:

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Posting only because this is further proof of the smoke of Satan that Pope Paul VI warned about…

"the usurpation of the Chair of Peter"

This is code for the false Pope narrative that all who disagree with the Bishop of Rome, to include all elected since 1958, are in their opinion false Popes.

So in fact they would argue that there is no valid Pope and anything coming out of Rome is the work of the devil.

I just stumbled upon this not too long ago and want to discuss in a separate thread.

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There is a necessary distinction to be made between those who held that Benedict XVI remained pope regardless of the resignation and the 1958 sedecantist positions. The quoted author is of the former. Yet the commonality between the positions is that they are both error.

But what of the lightning strike itself wherein only the halo, keys, and blessing hand are obliterated on the Pope's birthday and the day preceding a declaration that has seen much resistance from many, many bishops?

747Ag said:

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PabloSerna said:

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Posting only because this is further proof of the smoke of Satan that Pope Paul VI warned about…

"the usurpation of the Chair of Peter"

This is code for the false Pope narrative that all who disagree with the Bishop of Rome, to include all elected since 1958, are in their opinion false Popes.

So in fact they would argue that there is no valid Pope and anything coming out of Rome is the work of the devil.

I just stumbled upon this not too long ago and want to discuss in a separate thread.

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There is a necessary distinction to be made between those who held that Benedict XVI remained pope regardless of the resignation and the 1958 sedecantist positions. The quoted author is of the former. Yet the commonality between the positions is that they are both error.

But what of the lightning strike itself wherein only the halo, keys, and blessing hand are obliterated on the Pope's birthday and the day preceding a declaration that has seen much resistance from many, many bishops?

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There was a interesting split of power between Benedict and Francis. With Benedict retaining title of Pope, wearing white and keeping his ring. Archbishop Georg Gnswein Benedict's secretary recently mentioned there were errors in his resignation without mentioning what they were or their extent was, but it adds more oddity to this Papacy. There is also the long held theory that the Papacy was the Katechon mentioned by St. Paul, and the acceleration of wickedness since Benedict's passing has been striking. I don't know what is going on, and I am not endorsing that Francis isn't pope, but to pretend any of this is normal is madness.

jrico2727 said:

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747Ag said:

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PabloSerna said:

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Posting only because this is further proof of the smoke of Satan that Pope Paul VI warned about…

"the usurpation of the Chair of Peter"

This is code for the false Pope narrative that all who disagree with the Bishop of Rome, to include all elected since 1958, are in their opinion false Popes.

So in fact they would argue that there is no valid Pope and anything coming out of Rome is the work of the devil.

I just stumbled upon this not too long ago and want to discuss in a separate thread.

---

There is a necessary distinction to be made between those who held that Benedict XVI remained pope regardless of the resignation and the 1958 sedecantist positions. The quoted author is of the former. Yet the commonality between the positions is that they are both error.

But what of the lightning strike itself wherein only the halo, keys, and blessing hand are obliterated on the Pope's birthday and the day preceding a declaration that has seen much resistance from many, many bishops?

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There was a interesting split of power between Benedict and Francis. With Benedict retaining title of Pope, wearing white and keeping his ring. Archbishop Georg Gnswein Benedict's secretary recently mentioned there were errors in his resignation without mentioning what they were or their extent was, but it adds more oddity to this Papacy. There is also the long held theory that the Papacy was the Katechon mentioned by St. Paul, and the acceleration of wickedness since Benedict's passing has been striking. I don't know what is going on, and I am not endorsing that Francis isn't pope, but to pretend any of this is normal is madness.

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100%

TheGreatEscape said:

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What is the estimation of voters among the Cardinals to elect a conservative Pope to turn this thing around?
I mean when the Pope passes away or resigns…

I'm not sure about Francis's health. Are you?
Might be a factor in him pushing for his agenda right before Christmas?

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Most of the Cardinals of voting age are Francis appointees, so in one sense we will get a Francis II at the next conclave. However, Francis has deliberately sought Cardinals from the periferies. In this regard, many of them do not know each other. Perhaps a challenge to finding a consensus on the next pope. Wildcard... It's bishops from the periferies that have resoundingly rejected Fiducia Supplicans due to its pastoral approach that skirts around the settled moral theology.

747Ag said:

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TheGreatEscape said:

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What is the estimation of voters among the Cardinals to elect a conservative Pope to turn this thing around?
I mean when the Pope passes away or resigns…

I'm not sure about Francis's health. Are you?
Might be a factor in him pushing for his agenda right before Christmas?

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Most of the Cardinals of voting age are Francis appointees, so in one sense we will get a Francis II at the next conclave. However, Francis has deliberately sought Cardinals from the periferies. In this regard, many of them do not know each other. Perhaps a challenge to finding a consensus on the next pope. Wildcard... It's bishops from the periferies that have resoundingly rejected Fiducia Supplicans due to its pastoral approach that skirts around the settled moral theology.

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Agreed. If anything, Fiducia Supplicans gives an otherwise disjoint set of cardinal electors something to coalesce around.

aggietony2010 said:

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747Ag said:

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TheGreatEscape said:

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What is the estimation of voters among the Cardinals to elect a conservative Pope to turn this thing around?
I mean when the Pope passes away or resigns…

I'm not sure about Francis's health. Are you?
Might be a factor in him pushing for his agenda right before Christmas?

---

Most of the Cardinals of voting age are Francis appointees, so in one sense we will get a Francis II at the next conclave. However, Francis has deliberately sought Cardinals from the periferies. In this regard, many of them do not know each other. Perhaps a challenge to finding a consensus on the next pope. Wildcard... It's bishops from the periferies that have resoundingly rejected Fiducia Supplicans due to its pastoral approach that skirts around the settled moral theology.

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Agreed. If anything, Fiducia Supplicans gives an otherwise disjoint set of cardinal electors something to coalesce around.

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I think we see a moderate like Cardinal Muelle at best. For a more orthodox I think they would be an African like Cardinal Sarah. All we can do is pray we get the Pope we need not the one we deserve.

Cardinal Mueller is not a moderate. He has been very vocal about his dissatisfaction with Francis. I pray for him, Cardinal Burke, Cardinal Sarah, and Cardinal Brandemueller every day.
In God we must trust!!!!

jrico2727 said:

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Mark Fairchild said:

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Cardinal Mueller is not a moderate. He has been very vocal about his dissatisfaction with Francis. I pray for him, Cardinal Burke, Cardinal Sarah, and Cardinal Brandemueller every day.

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Quote:

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In God we must trust!!!!

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Quote:

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I very much appreciate his bravery by standings for the traditional Catholic teachings. When I say he is a moderate I am bringing up he has a lot of friends on the left and has been open to a lot of liberal ideas. He is respected by both sides and that is rare these days.

Honored to meet Cardinal Gerhard Müller at the @Synod_va. I've longed admired his friendship with Gustavo Gutiérrez, the father of liberation theology. His Eminence graciously gave me his book with Gutiérrez "On the Side of the Poor" and I gave him a copy of my book on Jesus... pic.twitter.com/I9mahMjlf7

— James Martin, SJ (@JamesMartinSJ) October 12, 2023

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++Mueller is one of the better bishops/Cardinals. Moderate is a relative term. He's become a stronger voice over time given what has been coming from Rome.