PabloSerna said:

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HumpitPuryear said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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So will priests be required to bless same-sex unions?

What actions will Pope Francis take against priests
and bishops who refuse?

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They won't be required to but it will be allowed and then the pressure will be on those bigoted priests that won't. They will be forced out. What's happening in the Catholic Church is exactly what has happened with Lutheran, Episcopal, Presbyterian, and most recently Methodists. It's going to break up the church and its wealth and influence will be redirected in support progressive causes. It's the same playbook. It's a genius strategy- destroy an enemy, minimize (demonize?) its counter influence and use the spoils of war against the next enemy. The Catholic Church is the big prize.

Homosexuality is at bat but transgenderism is on deck. It doesn't end with the recognition of same sex unions.

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Brother, this is a complete misunderstanding of the document issued today. Those other Christian denominations were essentially agreeing to same sex MARRIAGE from what I have read.

Highly.. Highly encourage you to read that document carefully because it used very specific language to point out that any blessing resembling a marriage, attached as part of a civil union, wedding cake, clothes, etc.. is NOT allowed.

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They didn't start out agreeing to anything related to homosexuality. It's a process. The Pope has made a concession to the progressives. He's probably a progressive himself. If the Pope is making this concession you can be sure the cancer runs deep and wide. He has cover. It won't be the last concession.

PabloSerna said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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PabloSerna said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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PabloSerna said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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So will priests be required to bless same-sex unions?

What actions will Pope Francis take against priests
and bishops who refuse?

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From #39 - "this blessing should never be imparted in concurrence with the ceremonies of a civil union, and not even in connection with them" -

Does that answer your question?

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Clarification - Same sex blessings

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Required, no.

I had my car blessed, my dog blessed, even my house years ago. The Priest or Deacon were friends and I asked them over and they came. Simple as that.

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Yeah, no, it is not as simple as that

"should not prevent or prohibit the Church's closeness to people in every situation in which they might seek God's help through a simple blessing".

We will see how he responds when priests refuse

And they will

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I am sure Lucifer is at the ready. I already told you that his calling card is to deny God's mercy and love to the people of God.

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So anyone opposing this Pope's move is doing satan's bidding?

And this isn't the same thing as blessing a car?

PabloSerna said:

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No - anyone keeping the children away from Jesus is doing the work of the devil (Lucifer) - why can't you see that?

And - yes it is. I remember the words more clearly about my house.. that our home become a "domestic church" for our 8 children.

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Ahhh. A priest refusing to bless a gay union is doing the work of the devil. Is that right?

PabloSerna said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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PabloSerna said:

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No - anyone keeping the children away from Jesus is doing the work of the devil (Lucifer) - why can't you see that?

And - yes it is. I remember the words more clearly about my house.. that our home become a "domestic church" for our 8 children.

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Ahhh. A priest refusing to bless a gay union is doing the work of the devil. Is that right?

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Details my man.. A priest refusing to bless a gay UNION is following the DDF.

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No different than saying blessing of the relationship. Ridiculous semantics

If such relationships are "sinful", would a priest refusing to bless such a relationship be doing the devils work?

Is a priest refusing to bless your car, or dog, also doing the work of the devil?

PabloSerna said:

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I think I know where you are going with this, that once certain individual ordained ministers (that covers more than priests) refuse to bless a same sex couple- that they will appeal to the local Bishop?

Since it hasn't happened, I don't see it going down like that.

From the few LGBTQ Catholics I know, they wouldn't approach an ordained minister that they were not friends with already. Even the few write ups I have read today from sources like GLADD and NPR are quick to point out that this is not marriage. Your phrasing seems to imply that the Church is like a governmental body and not the body of Christ as we (RCC) have come to understand it. We want to live in harmony and not in fear of each other.

It is interesting to me to see/read other people's reaction, like this is the end of the world. Blessing people who love each other and want to go to mass together.

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One day you'll learn what this word means.

PabloSerna said:

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I think I know where you are going with this, that once certain individual ordained ministers (that covers more than priests) refuse to bless a same sex couple- that they will appeal to the local Bishop?

Since it hasn't happened, I don't see it going down like that.

From the few LGBTQ Catholics I know, they wouldn't approach an ordained minister that they were not friends with already. Even the few write ups I have read today from sources like GLADD and NPR are quick to point out that this is not marriage. Your phrasing seems to imply that the Church is like a governmental body and not the body of Christ as we (RCC) have come to understand it. We want to live in harmony and not in fear of each other.

It is interesting to me to see/read other people's reaction, like this is the end of the world. Blessing people who love each other and want to go to mass together.

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Governing body?

The Church certainly has rules, and doctrine, which you ignore when inconvenient

And the Pope has certainly politicized, and some might argue, weaponized his position. See Bishop Strickland, et al. And goodness, the open disdain he has for American conservative Catholics.

Call it what you want, I guess. But I don't think for a second that you want to "live in harmony", unless that means getting your way. If the Pope had gone a different direction, you would be screaming from the rooftops what an injustice this was

But in any event, quit dodging

I will ask it your way.

If a priest refuses to bless a same-sex couple, because that priest believes their relationship is sinful, is that priest working on behalf of Satan?

It's a pretty simple question

PabloSerna said:

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The words are important. Don't you recall the recent Baptism scandal in Arizona where many people had to go back for their baptism because of the deviation of a few words by a Priest.

What I sense from some people is that the Church is bowing down to pressure from the liberals I assume? When in fact the Church is more like the Good Shepherd seeking out the lost sheep, leaving the more obedient sheep behind. So no concession. Just a building of a bridge to show that God loves them and wishes they come back home to share in the meal.

I also am speculating that this effort is recognizing that there are persons that are really homosexual and not heterosexual. What is clear, and important to remember, is that God's mercy and love are at the center of this development.

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Why can't you answer that very, very simple question?

PabloSerna said:

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"If a priest refuses to bless a same-sex couple, because that priest believes their relationship is sinful, is that priest working on behalf of Satan?"

No because of the Primacy of Conscience.

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Then why in the tap dancing **** did you say it???!!!

PabloSerna said:

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You used the words, "refusing" and "union" - adding the reason that he "believes" it to be sinful, changes everything.

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Omg

Robert Royal and Father Murray at The Catholic Thing have a good video about this. Stand up for the deposit of faith and the kinship of Jesus Christ or compromise. Those are the choices, always have been and always will be.

This is good

Statement from Bishop Andrew Cozzens of the Diocese of Crookston (MN) on Vatican’s new declaration on pastoral blessings and same-sex couples. pic.twitter.com/DnSIKxUlOR

— Jonathan Liedl (@JLLiedl) December 19, 2023

BREAKING: @BishStrickland urges 'brother bishops' to resist #PopeFrancis' new CDF document calling for blessings of homosexual couples.

"We simply must say ‘no.’" https://t.co/0vs8lDJnGj

— Stephen Kokx (@StephenKokx) December 18, 2023

Dad-O-Lot said:

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It is clear in reading the document that it is not proposing blessings of same sex relationships; only that people who are in such a relationship can receive a blessing. These are not the same thing and the document goes to great pains to indicate this.

Without this Declaration, it is very possible that some Bishop somewhere would give his Imprimatur on a "Rite of Blessing of Same Sex Couples". (may have already happened for all I know). This Declaration clearly states that this would not be licit.

While Western Media paints this Declaration as broadening the scope of Priestly Blessings, in all reality, it is restricting it.

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I'm going off of this:

Quote:

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Within the horizon outlined here is the possibility of blessings of couples in irregular situations and of same-sex couples

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The "couple" receives the blessing together, as a couple, in an acknowledged illicit relationship.

Agreed it sets an upper limit on what form the blessings may take, but I disagree that it is not proposing blessings of same sex relationships. You have to play a lot of semantic games to separate a couple from the relationship that they have. It is a narrow path (not mentioned anywhere) that I have seen to go from the two men/women are together, doing whatever they do per the secular world's new customs and any way that this coupling is something that can be blessed. The theologically defensible qualifier "insofar as you are chaste and/or seeking chastity" is very thin, but possibly identifiable if you look hard enough. I've never heard of a friendship being blessed, but that's the best analog I could think of.

Chastity is hard for single people and married men and women. Those that fail at it don't get a free pass to show up with their mistresses and have their priest say, "good that you showed up to seek God in whatever it is that you are doing here, now go back to being friendly acquaintances that help each other out in a positive way". Either a same sex coupling is harmful to the individual and disordered against God's plan for us, or it isn't. All people should seek God's blessings and they should be mercifully dispensed by the Church, but not in the context of something the Church says is a sin.

Blessing a same sex couple, as a couple, redefines (again, my interpretation) the implications of a disordered relationship under natural law and its consequences with respect to sin. The Pope has the power to do that, for sure, but the Church is never so clear about how you should live your life as it is when it comes to sexuality. It is an ever present dynamic in most every human's psyche and the strictures by which we are supposed to use that dynamic are specific and unambiguously codified doctrines.

My read is that when we have difficulty meeting those strictures, the doctrinally accurate response is "suck it up and suffer or endure ECT" and that's a message that does not sound at all pastoral in today's broader culture.

The world changed, and culturally, Catholic doctrine on human sexuality is way outside of the norm and no one can understand why that is a good thing.

RAB91 said:

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Point of clarification: priests could always bless individuals as individuals, and I cannot envision a priest worth His salt withholding such a blessing. In point of fact, a blessing upon all the faithful occurs at the end of every offering of the Mass—so no need for an…

— Father V (@father_rmv) December 19, 2023

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It is a SINGLE blessing, given to two people openly in a relationship, who are both present before the priest, at the same time

It is a blessing of the relationship/union, silly semantic games notwithstanding