Apologies if I've missed something. Lot of block quoting going on (direct reply is better). I'd be happy to respond directly if so.
That said, a few things -

"Abortion is a Jewish value" according to many Jewish organizations in the wake of Dobbs.
ALSO - Ben Shapiro is correct it's not.

This speaks to a major point of the thread - this large, complex term, radically re-defined by grave necessity amid the ruins of 70 AD, has as the primary unifying characteristic rejection of single messianic claim, of Jesus.

This is why the half dozen converts I've highlighted (despite say, a major Jewish figure such as Norman Lear STOPPED being Jewish at 100 years old) are so notable, even as they could practice atheism, or aspects of Buddhist teaching, and still be the term. But "Jews for Jesus" - their critics are correct! Not Jewish.

But, but "Ethno" …. Well, what's the detail there? The MAIN unifying aspect?

Christ or Barabbas…. This is the dividing line.

"Working in Tiberius in the Middle Ages
the Masoretes recognized the possibility of human error when copying the Hebrew Bible. They tried to combat it by adding supplements to the text. In the margins of the Masoretes' manuscripts, there are innumerable notes masorah safeguard the text. The precision with which the Masoretes were able to preserve the Hebrew text beginning in the seventh century C.E. is astounding. Nevertheless, the Masoretes WERE NOT WORKING with the ORIGINAL Hebrew manuscripts of the Bible. CORRUPTIONS had already crept into the VERSIONS they copied."

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/bible-versions-and-translations/errors-in-the-masoretes-original-hebrew-manuscripts-of-the-bible/

Quote:

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"Abortion is a Jewish value" according to many Jewish organizations in the wake of Dobbs.
ALSO - Ben Shapiro is correct it's not.

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Jewish law requires a woman to get an abortion if the pregnancy threatens her life. But that's a rare situation. While opinions differ on when exactly an abortion is permissible, the casual use of abortion as birth control is generally discouraged.

For a brief overview, see Wikipedia, MyJewishLearning, or Chabad.

Don't doubt it. My point is the MANY public statements after Dobbs, ALONGSIDE Praeger and Shapiro saying the exact opposite.

(Language of "fundamental value" …)

Both "sides" can be correct, pointing once again to the confusion of this large term, formed post 70, united by opinion of the Nazarene.

TheGreatEscape said:

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"Working in Tiberius in the Middle Ages
the Masoretes recognized the possibility of human error when copying the Hebrew Bible. They tried to combat it by adding supplements to the text. In the margins of the Masoretes' manuscripts, there are innumerable notes masorah safeguard the text. The precision with which the Masoretes were able to preserve the Hebrew text beginning in the seventh century C.E. is astounding. Nevertheless, the Masoretes WERE NOT WORKING with the ORIGINAL Hebrew manuscripts of the Bible. CORRUPTIONS had already crept into the VERSIONS they copied."

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/bible-versions-and-translations/errors-in-the-masoretes-original-hebrew-manuscripts-of-the-bible/

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Problems and corruptions exist in the LXX. There is no original copy of the scriptures and the Masoretic text is not only the oldest complete version of the Hebrew Bible that we have, it appears to be extremely accurate to the textual tradition it represents. Again, the version of Isaiah in the Masoretic text is identical to one of the version of Isaiah in the writings of Qumran, written 1000 years earlier, while the LXX version of Isaiah matches no known text.

It's Reddit, but this subreddit is for folks who work in academic biblical fields and they discuss the research on the topic:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/s/ntEsBGTpaf
https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/s/SCtolCsKUO
https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/s/yZvPfSfh3I

BonfireNerd04 said:

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Quote:

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"Abortion is a Jewish value" according to many Jewish organizations in the wake of Dobbs.
ALSO - Ben Shapiro is correct it's not.

---

Jewish law requires a woman to get an abortion if the pregnancy threatens her life. But that's a rare situation. While opinions differ on when exactly an abortion is permissible, the casual use of abortion as birth control is generally discouraged.

For a brief overview, see Wikipedia, MyJewishLearning, or Chabad.

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I have already posted three articles on the issue, which has led to the vast majority of physical-Jews voting in support of democrats and pro-abortion legislation.

That's great that they got Isaiah correct. Thank the Essenes for that.

But we now have older and better manuscripts to help us.

Look how verse 22 quantifies how Abraham is the heir of the earth? For it is God who ultimately possess the earth via Abraham.

Genesis 14:19-22 (ESV)

{19 And he blessed him and said,

"Blessed be Abram by God Most High,
Possessor of heaven and earth;
20 and blessed be God Most High,
who has delivered your enemies into your hand!"
And Abram gave him a tenth of everything. 21 And the king of Sodom said to Abram, "Give me the persons, but take the goods for yourself." 22 But Abram said to the king of Sodom, "I have lifted my hand to the Lord, God Most High, Possessor of heaven and earth,}

Now why in the world would the text repeat itself in verse 29, like your Middle Ages Masoretic text does?

Has nothing to do with the Essenes. The texts that formed Masoretic text existed alongside the Essenes. The Pharisees were not using Essene manuscripts. It's worth pointing out that the Qumran community had two versions of Isaiah, so saying the Masoretic text just took one and said that was good is illogical. It seems unlikely there was ever just one version of each book of the Hebrew Bible.

As for why the repeat, because it's a formal title. Abram hadn't been given any promises by God at that point. His name was still Abram. And you've screwed yourself there. The quote you just gave was from the LXX, not the Masoretic text.

Here's a different English translation of the LXX which is more closely aligned with the Masoretic text. It seems you're screwed by your translation.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/lxx/genesis/14.html

Jesus and the Apostles knew the Hebrew text and also quoted from the LXX (Septuagint).

Here is Jewish Paul. His name was Saul of Tarsus in Hebrew.

Romans 4:13 (ESV)

"13 For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith."

TheGreatEscape said:

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Jesus and the Apostles knew the Hebrew text and also quoted from the LXX (Septuagint).

Here is Jewish Paul. His name was Saul of Tarsus in Hebrew.

Romans 4:13 (ESV)

"13 For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith."

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The authors of the New Testament used the LXX. That's all you can say.

Paul was a Pharisee of Pharisees from the tribe of Benjamin. Paul's tutor was Gamaliel who was a very respected Hebrew scholar of his day. If the Septuagint contradicted his Hebrew scrolls, then he would have deferred. But Paul didn't defer in the letter to the Romans passage which supports the prior Hebrew text before it was burned by the Romans later in 70AD. The Romans also desiccated everything in the Herod's Temple before it was destroyed large stone by very large stone. And if you have seen the wall in Jerusalem that was left, then you'll notice that these stones were HUGE.

Must have been aliens.

Jesus also went to the temple as a child and searched the scriptures there. I'm certain that the priests also had Hebrew scrolls.

It's weird that Paul, supposedly a disciple of Gamaliel, would go against his teacher by killing Christians. Or be getting letters from the high priest (Acts 9:1-2), who was a Sadducee.

Yes. And Paul was accepted and was forgiven in the office of an Apostle both by the other Apostles, prebytors, bishops, early church fathers, and all the way to today.

Thus demonstrating that some of you may have a Demarcus Road experience, so to speak, and come to the fulfillment of Jesus' continuation of both law and covenant.

It's amazing to me that many physical-Jews object to the Ten Commandments and yet claim the Reformed view of the Law is off because of our understanding of what we call the ceremonial law.

And I just made an OP about it.

Psalm 86:9 (ESV)

"All the nations you have made shall come
and worship before you, O Lord,
and shall glorify your name."

And how exactly are the nations going to worship and glorify the name of the Lord?