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TheGreatEscape
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We will see if anyone participates. It is ok either way.

I'd like to start a thread about sharing if we were raised by Scripture affirming parents (yes, Catholics and Orthodox count).

Are you a Christian who still affirms the authority of the Scripture and attends church?

Are you a Christian who still affirms the authority of Scripture but do not attend a church right now?

Or did your parents not go to church? Maybe they were atheists or agnostics or of some other religion? Did they believe in God and the Bible and still not take you to church?

Also, feel free to share about what Christian tradition you are apart of and if you've journeyed to another tradition.

Of course, some are non-denom. And that's fine. But it's still a tradition.
Jabin
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TheGreatEscape said:

I'd like to start a thread about sharing if we were raised by Scripture affirming parents (yes, Catholics and Orthodox count).
Yes, most definitely.

Quote:

Are you a Christian who still affirms the authority of the Scripture and attends church?
Still affirm the authority (and complete trustworthiness) of Scripture. I've moved somewhat recently and have yet to find a church home.

Quote:

Also, feel free to share about what Christian tradition you are apart of and if you've journeyed to another tradition.
My dad was in the Army during most of my early years. My parents, who were Protestants, put more emphasis on the beliefs of the post chaplains than they did on what brand of Christianity they belonged to. The reason for that was that you could have very "liberal" chaplains from supposedly conservative traditions and, vice versa, Godly and Bible-believing chaplains from very liberal traditions.

In addition, the Christians in the Army did not seem to put much weight at all on what tradition a Christian was from.

My parents were also very active in a parachurch organization called Officers Christian Fellowship. It also put no weight at all on the Christian tradition someone was from.

That probably, as much as anything, influenced my view that Christ's church is the entire body of believers, not any one tradition, whether it be RCC, EO, Anglican, Baptist, Methodist, or any other. Growing up, I witnessed first hand the body of all believers in actual practice.

Also, Evangelicalism has changed during my lifetime. It originally was a serious body of believers, committed to discipleship and a serious approach to God's Word. Today it seems to be more about mega churches, entertainment, and youth groups, without the seriousness of past years.
Terminus Est
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We will see if anyone participates. It is ok either way.
Quote:


I'd like to start a thread about sharing if we were raised by Scripture affirming parents (yes, Catholics and Orthodox count).


Yes, we had a very Catholic household.
Quote:


Are you a Christian who still affirms the authority of the Scripture and attends church?


I attend Church, I think scripture is authoritative but the authority itself lies in the Church

Quote:


Are you a Christian who still affirms the authority of Scripture but do not attend a church right now?


N/a

Quote:


Or did your parents not go to church? Maybe they were atheists or agnostics or of some other religion? Did they believe in God and the Bible and still not take you to church?



N/a
Quote:


Also, feel free to share about what Christian tradition you are apart of and if you've journeyed to another tradition.


I am Roman Catholic and was dragged to Grace Bible Church a few times by a Corps Buddy, but I didn't really care about my faith in College.

Win At Life
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AG
I was raised with my parents attending Baptist churches. My parents were quietly faithful believers but we didn't pray at home or talk about our faith. Baptists generally hold a high view of the divine nature of the Bible, and so do I.

Explored my faith more on my own since college. Attended Catholic mass a few times and met with a priest at A&M. Visited Aldersgate Methodist, but that didn't stick. Read the entire book of Mormon. Read half the Koran, but couldn't finish it. Read a book by Khalil Gilbran. But I kept reading my Bible and became increasingly frustrated by how much I was hearing in churches that didn't match with that. Spent a lifetime doing biblical apologetic studies. Was turned off by a lot of the easy believism teachings.

All this led me to finally find answers and a lifestyle that more closely matching the Bible in Messianic Judaism. Now I am basically the lead part-time preacher at a Messianic Jewish congregation. It kind if fell to me when a number of others left or moved away over time, but there were too many odd occurrences in that transition for me to not believe Elohim had His hand in putting me in this position. He did that because I never would have gone out and started my own church (among other reasons I'm sure exist as well as I'm sure I'll never know until all is finished). I even wrote a book on Messianic apologetics, because I couldn't find one that already existed to give to people. I've posted links to that on here a few times.

I hope all that addresses most of OPs questions.

Shalom.
BrazosDog02
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AG
Raised Methodist but not seriously. We didn't go to church except on the big holidays and even then it wasn't all the time. I believe in God but not most religions. I think all have the right idea but I don't think one is better than the other.

My mother was the local Bible church secretary and admin for many years. We went to that church sometimes.

I married a Catholic but she also didn't buy into it all. The kids are Catholic and went through the sacraments to get to baptism and confirmation and that's about it.

We don't currently attend church. We just never bought into the whole religion and church thing so it was tough to play pretend every Sunday for us. So, we stopped.

We actively read the Bible on occasion but also aren't fully sold on simple things like Mary being a virgin. Since that's sort of not a question to be asked and since that's sort of the basis of Christianity….we just kind of keep to ourselves.
dermdoc
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AG
Raised Southern Baptist and was at church twice on Sunday and on Wednesday nights.

Never lost my faith completely but med school, internship, and residency took up a lot of time and I quit going to church. Got real mad at God and well meaning Christians when my dad died suddenly.

Went from Houston Med Center back to my home town of Beaumont to put my mom to work for me for 22 years.

Started going to my old Baptist church again with my young family and became very involved. Served as Deacon, Deacon chair twice, seemed like I headed every committee. Taught Sunday school.

Semi retired to College Station and now attend a non denominational church, Brazos Fellowship, and love it.

My favorite thing though is Friday am Bible study with about 20 like minded Christians from all denominations.

Has been going on for about 30 years and meets at a McDonald's so it is called McChurch.

Never have I had the peace, or as I call it shalom, as I do now. Right now drinking coffee reading my Bible in a year. Never dreamed I would enjoy so much spending time reading Scripture and prayer as I do now.


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dermdoc
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AG
TheGreatEscape said:

We will see if anyone participates. It is ok either way.

I'd like to start a thread about sharing if we were raised by Scripture affirming parents (yes, Catholics and Orthodox count).

Are you a Christian who still affirms the authority of the Scripture and attends church?

Are you a Christian who still affirms the authority of Scripture but do not attend a church right now?

Or did your parents not go to church? Maybe they were atheists or agnostics or of some other religion? Did they believe in God and the Bible and still not take you to church?

Also, feel free to share about what Christian tradition you are apart of and if you've journeyed to another tradition.

Of course, some are non-denom. And that's fine. But it's still a tradition.


Curious about your journey.

Have you always been a Calvinist?
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
AGC
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AG
TheGreatEscape said:

We will see if anyone participates. It is ok either way.

I'd like to start a thread about sharing if we were raised by Scripture affirming parents (yes, Catholics and Orthodox count).

Are you a Christian who still affirms the authority of the Scripture and attends church?

Are you a Christian who still affirms the authority of Scripture but do not attend a church right now?

Or did your parents not go to church? Maybe they were atheists or agnostics or of some other religion? Did they believe in God and the Bible and still not take you to church?

Also, feel free to share about what Christian tradition you are apart of and if you've journeyed to another tradition.

Of course, some are non-denom. And that's fine. But it's still a tradition.


1. Maybe? Parents divorced when I was very young. Went to a Baptist church during elementary but remember a conversation with my mom about whether she actually believed and she told me she still read the Bible. It was less than convincing (even for a ~3rd grader). However we lived with family for a year or two and she made my step dad go a little when they remarried until middle school. My dad started taking me in middle school and I kept going when I could drive.

2. Yes.

3. N/A.

4. N/A.

5. Raised Baptist, attended some non-denom (Baptist) during that phase of life. We are now Anglican
TheGreatEscape
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dermdoc said:

TheGreatEscape said:

We will see if anyone participates. It is ok either way.

I'd like to start a thread about sharing if we were raised by Scripture affirming parents (yes, Catholics and Orthodox count).

Are you a Christian who still affirms the authority of the Scripture and attends church?

Are you a Christian who still affirms the authority of Scripture but do not attend a church right now?

Or did your parents not go to church? Maybe they were atheists or agnostics or of some other religion? Did they believe in God and the Bible and still not take you to church?

Also, feel free to share about what Christian tradition you are apart of and if you've journeyed to another tradition.

Of course, some are non-denom. And that's fine. But it's still a tradition.


Curious about your journey.

Have you always been a Calvinist?


This is quite long…

I've appreciated every post and hope for more testimonies to be shared. It's good for the redeemed of the Lord to say so.

"… Let the redeemed of the LORD say so, Whom he hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy; And gathered them out of the lands, from the east, and from the west, From the north, and from the south." Psalm 107:2-3

Thank you, Doc. First of all, I believe that all traditions who affirm the Athanasian, Nicene, and Apostolic Creeds are objectively Christian. Even if they have never read them to find out…Yes, I realize there is one line in the Nicene Creed that differs with my Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters.

Anyhow, my parents moved from First Baptist when I was 8.
They joined a charismatic church, even though all of my relatives were either Baptist or conservative Bible believing Lutherans.

The charismatic church we left to was in the same county and was called Church on the Rock in Rockwall, Texas.
Pastor Larry Lea was the former youth pastor of Beverly Hills Baptist Church in Dallas.
He graduated from Dallas Baptist and Southwestern Theological Seminary.
He was heavily a sink or swim Arminian. I know there are other types because grandparents on both sides were very dedicated Baptists. Spent a lot of weekends with my grandparents and went to church with the Baptists.

Anyway, the word is the word. This was before the health and wealth stuff started to influence people in the wrong direction. The word was being preached. He was dynamic and I've never heard another preacher quite like him in person. He effectively made our church a praying church. We had constant sword drills (Bible book locating practice) in the Church on the Rock school.

Then they found out that Larry had two houses and land that was messy with the IRS and Larry started calling himself an apostle at the end. So he handed the church over to someone of the Pentecostal tradition. Then Larry went through a divorce and remarried. There were some other questionable acts that may or may not be true. I don't know.

Larry's church went from 12 people in 1980 to over 5,000 and he parted ways in 1990.
I continued with the new pastor until 2000.
Joined a church plant that was started by his son John Aaron Lea. He was preaching about the sovereignty of God in providence and salvation. He's also a great preacher.
I started reading Luther and Calvin on my own.

Then I went to DBU and finished in 2004 with a degree in Biblical Studies. Became a Presbyterian my Senior year.
Went to Westminster Seminary Dallas campus for a year. Now its called Redeemer Seminary.
It was strenuous for me and I was single. So I left to start teaching middle school history and coaching.

Got married two years into teaching to someone who grew up Church of Christ and then wealth and health charismatic. She went to church with me and then we had twin daughters and a step son that I still pray for and love.

She divorced me in 2012. I was humiliated and heartbroken that I wasn't able to keep her happy as is the duty of a Christian husband. Found her shopping around and she wasn't repentant. I was forced to leave the Presbyterian Church after the divorce. As Adam wrongly said to God…"It was the women that you gave me."
She stopped attending there and claims that she doesn't believe in God anymore. She remarried and then divorced him a couple of years later.

So my poor children have been through a lot of grief.
They are 14 now. Please, please…keep us in your prayers. God works through prayer.

So after my divorce, I lost my job. Then was hired late and had to move to South Texas. I hardly ever went to church.
I started using Cocaine and snorted some meth. This went on for three years, even though I was working out and chasing women in fornication.

Those drugs got bad and I stopped going to work. I came into work all dissociated after scoring very, very high in my teacher evaluation. That school district drug tests. So I was drug tested and failed. Lost my job. Lost my career of nearly ten years.

Moved back to Rockwall with my parents. Started snorting adderall and snorting capsules of gabapenten and trying to create music. Well…that was foolish. But I really felt hopeless and hard to accept the finding of another Godly women, especially with my economic status and confidence in Christ lacking.

I started hallucinating badly. I punched my brother (sucker punch). I've never been violent. Only fought twice because I was being punched back in my freshmen year at public school. I smashed most of the windows of businesses across the street and took an iPad, which I placed at my dad and mom's door. Went to jail for a year.

Went to a 90 day rehab. Went to sober living.

My parents were still going to their church as usual.
I worked down in Dallas on my knees gathering clothes and shoes into trash bags for a year. Then worked at a Surplus store. Now I work an humble job at a restaurant.

But my dad and I spent 7 years living together before he passed and my mom has been reformed since 2017. My brother has been reformed since 2019. And my dad was reformed by 2019. Passed in 2022.

We watched countless sermons together on YouTube by RC Sproul, Sinclair Ferguson, Tim Keller, John MacAurthur, Voddie Baucham and Steve Lawson.

I work on Sundays from 3-9. So I just recently started to attend a "Bible thumping" Anglican Church just five minutes down the road. I'm making new quality friends and I just love the expository preaching. Something about being present underneath the preaching of the word.

The other thing that attracted me to the Calvinist (Reformed) side of things is that the Holy Spirit is actually being emphasized and is all powerful in the work of redemption and bearing the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Anyway, if you've made it this far…I appreciate your prayers as we pray for each other and participate in the growth of God's kingdom throughout the whole world!

Oh and praise be to God alone that I have been celibate for 7 years. I am very content and happy with the way things are.















TheGreatEscape
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Always learning…
dermdoc
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AG
TheGreatEscape said:

dermdoc said:

TheGreatEscape said:

We will see if anyone participates. It is ok either way.

I'd like to start a thread about sharing if we were raised by Scripture affirming parents (yes, Catholics and Orthodox count).

Are you a Christian who still affirms the authority of the Scripture and attends church?

Are you a Christian who still affirms the authority of Scripture but do not attend a church right now?

Or did your parents not go to church? Maybe they were atheists or agnostics or of some other religion? Did they believe in God and the Bible and still not take you to church?

Also, feel free to share about what Christian tradition you are apart of and if you've journeyed to another tradition.

Of course, some are non-denom. And that's fine. But it's still a tradition.


Curious about your journey.

Have you always been a Calvinist?


This is quite long…

I've appreciated every post and hope for more testimonies to be shared. It's good for the redeemed of the Lord to say so.

"… Let the redeemed of the LORD say so, Whom he hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy; And gathered them out of the lands, from the east, and from the west, From the north, and from the south." Psalm 107:2-3

Thank you, Doc. First of all, I believe that all traditions who affirm the Athanasian, Nicene, and Apostolic Creeds are objectively Christian. Even if they have never read them to find out…Yes, I realize there is one line in the Nicene Creed that differs with my Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters.

Anyhow, my parents moved from First Baptist when I was 8.
They joined a charismatic church, even though all of my relatives were either Baptist or conservative Bible believing Lutherans.

The charismatic church we left to was in the same county and was called Church on the Rock in Rockwall, Texas.
Pastor Larry Lea was the former youth pastor of Beverly Hills Baptist Church in Dallas.
He graduated from Dallas Baptist and Southwestern Theological Seminary.
He was heavily a sink or swim Arminian. I know there are other types because grandparents on both sides were very dedicated Baptists. Spent a lot of weekends with my grandparents and went to church with the Baptists.

Anyway, the word is the word. This was before the health and wealth stuff started to influence people in the wrong direction. The word was being preached. He was dynamic and I've never heard another preacher quite like him in person. He effectively made our church a praying church. We had constant sword drills (Bible book locating practice) in the Church on the Rock school.

Then they found out that Larry had two houses and land that was messy with the IRS and Larry started calling himself an apostle at the end. So he handed the church over to someone with a Pentecostal tradition. Then Larry went through a divorce and remarried. There were some other questionable acts that may or may not be true. I don't know.

Larry's church went from 12 people in 1980 to over 5,000 and he parted ways in 1990.
I continued with the new pastor until 2000.
Joined a church plant with that was started by his son John Aaron Lea. He was preaching about the sovereignty of God in providence and salvation. He's also a great preacher.
I started reading Luther and Calvin on my own.

Then I went to DBU and finished in 2004 with a degree in Biblical Studies. Became a Presbyterian my Senior year.
Went to Westminster Seminary Dallas campus for a year. How called Redeemer Seminary.
It was strenuous for me and I was single. So I left to start teaching middle school history and coaching.

Got married two years into teaching to someone who grew up Church of Christ and then wealth and health charismatic. She went to church with me and then we had twin daughters and a step son that I still pray for and love.

She divorced me in 2012. I was humiliated and heartbroken that I wasn't able to keep her happy as is the duty of a Christian husband. Found her shopping around and she wasn't repentant. I was forced to leave the Presbyterian Church after the divorce. As Adam wrongly said to God…"It was the women that you gave me."
She stopped attending there and claims that she doesn't believe in God anymore. She remarried and then divorced him a couple of years later.

So my poor children have been through a lot of grief.
They are 14 now. Please, please…keep us in your prayers. God works through prayer.

So after my divorce, I lost my job. Then was hired late and had to move to South Texas. I hardly ever went to church.
I started using Cocaine and snorted some meth. This went on for three years, even though I was working out and chasing women in fornication.

Those drugs got bad and I stopped going to work. I came into work all dissociated after scoring very, very high in my teacher evaluation. That school district drug tests. So I was drug tested and failed. Lost my job. Lost my career of nearly ten years.

Moved back to Rockwall with my parents. Started snorting adderall and snorting capsules of gaba penten and trying to create music. Well…that was foolish. But I really felt hopeless and hard to accept the finding of another Godly women, especially with my economic status and confidence in Christ lacking.

I started hallucinating badly. I punched my brother (sucker punch). I've never been violent. Only fought twice because I was being punched back in my freshmen year at public school. I smashed most of the windows of businesses across the street and took an iPad, which I placed at my dad and mom's door. Went to jail for a year.

Went to a 90 day rehab. Went to sober living.

My parents were still going to their church as usual.
I worked down in Dallas on my knees gathering clothes and shoes into trash bags for a year. Then worked at a Surplus store. Now I work an humble job at a restaurant.

But my dad and spent 5 years together before he passed and my mom has been reformed since 2014. My brother has been reformed since 2011. And my dad was reformed by 2019. Passed in 2022.

We watched countless sermons together on YouTube by RC Sproul, Sinclair Ferguson, Tim Keller, John MacAurthur, Voddie Baucham and Steve Lawson.

I work on Sundays from 3-9. So I just recently started to attend a "Bible thumping" Anglican Church just five minutes down the road. I'm making new quality friends and I just love the expository preaching. Something about being present underneath the preaching of the word.

The other thing that attracted me to the Calvinist (Reformed) side of things is that the Holy Spirit is actually being emphasized and is all powerful in the work of redemption and bearing the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Anyway, if you've made it this far…I appreciate your prayers as we pray for each other and participate in the growth of God's kingdom throughout the whole world!


















Wow. What a testimony! Blessed to have you as a brother in Christ.

And for the record, I was the sword drill champ at Calder Baptist in Beaumont as a youngster.

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Jabin
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Quote:

And for the record, I was the sword drill champ at Calder Baptist in Beaumont as a youngster.
You're just lucky I didn't attend there. I had all the sword drill cheats figured out, including a bible with the books marked on the page edges.

Nothing like cheatin' to win a Sword Drill.
TheGreatEscape
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I always won most all of the sword drills as well! Being at the home of an of my family members is like going to church. And I am very glad that you hold church at your clinic. Being a Christian isn't just for Sundays. All of Christ in all of life. Dualism is terrible for the soul.

I just don't believe ORU and other places of study are cutting it for being a charismatic pastor. If they're going to go that route then go to DBU and then go to Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. They are Arminian but if that's your cup of tea, please go there.

We expect attorneys and doctors to be trained in their practices. Why shouldn't the minister of God not be trained with the same rigor in their studies.

Generally speaking, if your education in the Scripture and church history is low, then you are only really helping people of lower education levels or anti-intellectual, especially when it comes to the study of God's word. The Holy Spirit is not separate from the Spirit breathed word.

Plus, you want to be skilled in the Bible academically to be able to keep and grow people of higher levels of learning. If not, you're just not going to be the best for those types.

Today's charismatic church is definitely chaos.
Sorry if that offends fellow brothers and sisters of Christ. But I was in that particular branch from 1990-2000.
I tune into TBN on occasions to also see what the masses are getting and I weep.
dermdoc
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AG
Definitely not charismatic but do listen to the small, still voice.

I used to think God was mad at me.

Now I know he loves me and created me as a masterpiece.
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TheGreatEscape
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Amen and amen
Jabin
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Quote:

I used to think God was mad at me.
Out of curiosity, and if it's not too personal, why was that? Is that what gives rise to what your frequent concern over Calvinism and double predestination?
88Warrior
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My mother was raised in the Church of God denomination in rural Central Louisiana and my father as a Southern Baptist in Deep East Texas…They were both believers but did not regularly attend church but would drop me off at the Baptist Church for worship and for RA's as a kid. I was baptized in that Baptist church as a teenager. I married my Methodist wife and chose to go the UMC route with her. Raised our children in the UMC until the wheels came off for all the known reasons. Started worshipping at a Baptist church until we moved out of state. Got to Oklahoma and found a "conservative" Methodist church that had disaffiliated from the UMC . The church has yet to join a new denomination but are looking at/vetting different options. I guess for now you can call me "Wesleyan"…I've personally never have had a believer's "crisis" or ever doubted the existence of God. I'm as close to Him now as I've ever been..
canadiaggie
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UTExan
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Former Southern Baptist until I discovered charismatic Christianity and did some historical study on the western Christian church. Had Huguenot ancestors that left France and fled to Holland after the Catholics came down hard on Protestants, then to America. The other side were apparently Presbyterian until the evangelical Methodists came along. Mom's side characterized by "shouting Methodists" while Dad's side tended to be pietistic Protestant.
I prefer the evangelical ecumenism I find in para-church ministries and steer far clear of partisan politically minded churches and clergy.
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
-Havelock Vetinari
TheGreatEscape
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You're Assembly of God, correct? Have many friends who attend.
Thank you for sharing.
dermdoc
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AG
Jabin said:

Quote:

I used to think God was mad at me.
Out of curiosity, and if it's not too personal, why was that? Is that what gives rise to what your frequent concern over Calvinism and double predestination?


Not too personal at all. I suffered from scrupulosity and thought I was damned to hell through no real reason or event.

Read tons and studies a lot.

Finally found peace and learned that God loved me no matter what.

My relationship with God is very real and I can not comprehend the God I have met would pre ordain people he created to hell without them having a chance.

So yeah, it is very troubling theology to me. How can you have kids if you do not know whether they will arbitrarily be pre ordained to hell without any chance.
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TheGreatEscape
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That's because the unregenerate are at war with God until God intervenes.

Romans 8:7 (ESV)

"7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot."
TheGreatEscape
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And I wonder where Zobel is. He's probably the most scholarly on the board. He represents his tradition extremely well.

I wonder what his background is?

Maybe Zobel is a bot developed in some genius AI computer lab by the clergy of the Eastern Orthodox Church?

canadiaggie
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AG
Nizari Isma'ili Shi'i Muslim.

Edit: nvm, should have read the OP, which was asking about Christian backgrounds.

In that case: Nestorian Heretic
dermdoc
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AG
TheGreatEscape said:

That's because the unregenerate are at war with God until God intervenes.

Romans 8:7 (ESV)

"7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot."


I had been regenerate, baptized, served in church leadership for years. I was definitely not hostile to God.
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TheGreatEscape
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dermdoc said:

TheGreatEscape said:

That's because the unregenerate are at war with God until God intervenes.

Romans 8:7 (ESV)

"7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot."


I had been regenerate, baptized, served in church leadership for years. I was definitely not hostile to God.


Apologies. That's not what I was referring to at all. I was referring to:

"…I can not comprehend the God I have met would pre ordain people he created to hell without them having a chance."

The unregenerate are at war with God. Some translations use the word enmity.

Romans 8:7 (ESV)

"7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot."

And also:

Romans 1:18 (ESV)

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth."
Jabin
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A long time ago I decided that predestination and free will can both be true. Any attempt to deny that is an artificial man-made limitation placed upon God. The reason that we cannot understand it is that we are not God. The Calvinists, despite their claims to glorify God and his transcendence, seem to actually put him in a box of their own definition by their insistence on predestination. Their insistence on it is strange to me because they do so in the face of all of the Biblical passages clearly stating free will, even if those exact words are not used. An example is the oft-quoted passage "Choose this day whom you will serve." If there is no free will, that passage is meaningless and made a mockery.

I don't know, but suspect, that the answer to the antinomy is that God is outside of time. Free will vs. predestination becomes a silly distinction to a person like God who can see all of time at once, and can choose to intervene or not intervene in time at will.
TheGreatEscape
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Yes. "Choose you this day" and it is God who provides us with a heart of flesh to respond and freely choose by the all powerful Holy Spirit.
dermdoc
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AG
TheGreatEscape said:

That's because the unregenerate are at war with God until God intervenes.

Romans 8:7 (ESV)

"7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot."
And what if He does not intervene? What if that is your son or daughter?Do you think that is the character of God as revealed through Jesus?

Do you believe God loves all people?
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UTExan
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TheGreatEscape said:

You're Assembly of God, correct? Have many friends who attend.
Thank you for sharing.

Attended an AG church until Covid. My wife's Methodist church has an uncharacteristically Biblical preacher who is much more a Biblical literalist than most Methodist clergy. I am attending there with her, but yes, my preference is an AG church.
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
-Havelock Vetinari
Redstone
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AG
Son of a Southern Baptist deacon

Catholic convert since 2006

TheGreatEscape
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dermdoc said:

TheGreatEscape said:

That's because the unregenerate are at war with God until God intervenes.

Romans 8:7 (ESV)

"7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot."
And what if He does not intervene? What if that is your son or daughter?Do you think that is the character of God as revealed through Jesus?

Do you believe God loves all people?



Yes. Yes I do. First of all, the covenant blessing extends in a special way to our children. God works through families as well.

Secondly, God would be just in sending everyone to hell.
dermdoc
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AG
TheGreatEscape said:

dermdoc said:

TheGreatEscape said:

That's because the unregenerate are at war with God until God intervenes.

Romans 8:7 (ESV)

"7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot."
And what if He does not intervene? What if that is your son or daughter?Do you think that is the character of God as revealed through Jesus?

Do you believe God loves all people?



Yes. Yes I do. First of all, the covenant blessing extends in a special way to our children. God works through families as well.

Secondly, God would be just in sending everyone to hell.
Agree.

But how do you equate God loves all people with double pre destination?
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TheGreatEscape
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Where in the Bible has God changed from the Old Testament in the New Testament?

Where in the Bible does God obligate himself to save everyone?

And also…God would be just in sending everyone to hell, correct?
PabloSerna
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AG
TheGreatEscape said:

We will see if anyone participates. It is ok either way.

I'd like to start a thread about sharing if we were raised by Scripture affirming parents (yes, Catholics and Orthodox count).

Are you a Christian who still affirms the authority of the Scripture and attends church?

Are you a Christian who still affirms the authority of Scripture but do not attend a church right now?

Or did your parents not go to church? Maybe they were atheists or agnostics or of some other religion? Did they believe in God and the Bible and still not take you to church?

Also, feel free to share about what Christian tradition you are apart of and if you've journeyed to another tradition.

Of course, some are non-denom. And that's fine. But it's still a tradition.
Your choice of words are interesting if only because it sheds light on how different we are and at the same time profess the same creed.

First, my parents divorced when I was 2 years old, so I never really got to know my father except through occasional hunting/fishing trips as a youth. Haven't talked to him in more than 20 years. My sister however, sees him more regularly as she has moved back to that part of Texas. I should do more!

My mother however, is a "living saint" as we say in the RCC. Texts me daily bible verses, novenas, chaplets, and a lot of emojis. She and her sister (Aunt Dee) are the organizers for the Blessed Sacrament prayer team in Cibolo, TX. I was raised a "cradle Catholic" meaning I have never known another denomination (tradition as you say) than holy mother church. My grandmother was a devout Catholic woman and my great-grandmother even more devout than all of us combined - a real prayer warrior! They regularly say the Angelus, followed by a litany of prayers daily. I have fallen short, way short, of their example and I also have the Divine Office to say daily as a Dominican. We say the Liturgy of the Hours as a community monthly - but I need to do better, mea culpa!

We didn't "attend church" on Sunday - we went to mass early and we rarely missed. Would have been heath related if we didn't go as kids. Mass was followed by visiting family, eating all kinds of wonderful food (Mexican, of course), watching football, playing football/baseball with cousins, and coming home in the afternoon. Those were some very formative years in my youth. It was God and Family - Dallas Cowboys a distant third.

It wasn't until I came to TAMU that I ever strayed from the faith. I can pin it down to a certain event and professor that challenged what I had taken for granted for so long- that there is a God. In 1990, I excitedly joined a number of other Aggie architecture students as an exchange student in Guatemala. We studied a summer at the Universidad de Francisco Marroquin under the tutelage of esteemed architect, Warren Orbaugh, who was very interested in debating all things religious. Loved the classes, they have been doing sustainable, green building long before it was happening here in the USA. His books are a template for what took place here in the mid 90's and early 2000's.

We were all having dinner one evening at one of the sponsor's extravagant homes, high in the mountains surrounding Ciudad de Guatemala, when he asked us, "Do you believe in God?" - We were all young and said, of course. Good Aggies! So he proceeded to ask some high level theological questions about the nature of God and, as he put it, the improbability of the existence of God. At the time, I had never questioned the existence of God, however, I had never had to defend my belief in a supreme, omnipotent, all knowing being. Arquitecto Orabaugh 1, Pablo 0. Of the 20 or so of us there, I was the most versed with scripture and the sacraments if you can believe it, so I put up a valiant fight, but the Professor was a Jedi Master in these type of friendly dialogues with his students. My host, Jose, said- "he does that all the time, loves taking down the church. He's an atheist." I had never met anyone that didn't believe in God, so I was unprepared to counter his well rehearsed arguments against the existence of God.

If anything, it did affect me in a positive way. His questions burned in my mind for years. At first, I sort of believed him and his reasoning since I didn't know any better. Was he right? Makes sense, maybe this whole "God" thing was made up by men set on exploiting the natives? Is there really hell? A devil? What is truth? You can imagine we stayed up late into the evening at his feet as he spun some serious philosophy mixed in with history to unravel years of Catholic school religious education by Sister Bridget. However, he couldn't shake what I "felt" as a young boy kneeling at the altar ringing the bells as Father Morgan lifted the eucharist saying, "Take this in memory of me."

For a few years, I did wallow. I would miss mass and started to question my faith at that time. For a brief time, I gave in and doubted seriously the idea of God all together! However, it was my newborn baby girl that kept me wondering - what was it that I "felt" all those years ago, that I feel when I look into her eyes? It was love!

Around 1993, we discovered San Jose Catholic Church in south Austin and a group of devout Catholics that met every Thursday to celebrate mass and sing joyful songs to Jesus. I eventually started to pepper Fr. Kirby with the very questions I didn't have a good answer to, then he handed me a large book and said, "all those questions and more are here, answered completely, have fun reading!" It was a commentary on the Summa Theologica. I was consuming books about God, the Church, and all things apologetics at a rapid pace. In a few years, I discovered others like me (Dominican Laity) and made my profession to the order in 1999.

Haven't looked back since!
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