ramblin_ag02 said:
Proposition Joe said:
ramblin_ag02 said:
Proposition Joe said:
ramblin_ag02 said:
Proposition Joe said:
Again, 1.7 MILLION Muslims live in Israel.
That's up from 700,00 in 1990.
For a country that is so hell-bent on ethnic cleansing, they are really, really bad at it.
They are all the way to 20% of the population compared to 73% Jewish. If you add the 5 million Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank then you're pretty close to 50/50, which is unthinkable and unacceptable to the rulers of Israel. That's the real heart of this issue. Israel refuses to integrate Palestinians due to need for ethnic dominance. They refuse to let them have their own state. There are only two other options, the occupied territory status quo (complete with horrific oppression) or ethnic cleansing.
That's a pretty darn big chasm you just leaped.
You've now shifted from "ethnic cleansing" to "50/50 is unthinkable"
But the phrase "desire to keep the ethnic majority" doesn't sound so harsh. So instead you sensationalize it and say "ethnic cleansing" and "genocide".
It is so incredibly intellectually dishonest.
But hey, it makes a good sound bite!
Again for the people in the back -- the Muslim population in Israel -- which the Jews "control" -- has grown by ONE MILLION in 30 years.
So just stop with the "ethnic cleansing" and "genocide" talk. It sounds so incredibly foolish.
The Likud does everything but come out and explicitly say they want all the Palestinians gone. All their policies and goals point to that. Yet you are blindly saying that calling them out for their nearly explicitly stated policy is "incredibly foolish". The Likud openly supports "2+2" and you call me foolish for saying that means they support "4".
Let me put it another way. There are two ways that Israel can do with the Palestinians without being evil. First, integrate them into Israel. Second, give them their own state and leave them alone. There are two ways Israel can handle the situation in an evil way. First, imprison and oppress them. Second, ethnically cleanse them. The Likud is actively against integration, a Palestinian state, and they've openly come out against the status quo of imprisonment and oppression. That only leaves one option
First, note that in my previous posts I was very clear in that Israel backroom politics have contributed significantly to the "status quo" in the region. Don't take my posts as a defense of that. I simply understand that it's how societies operate worldwide. Anyone living in the U.S. has no business casting ire at another country that allows bad situations to continue for benefit of their own country.
That being said -- yes, it comes off as incredibly foolish to continually reference what you believe to be the desire of a political party to "ethnically cleanse" when the Muslim population in Israel has increased by 1 million in a few decades. It's akin to saying because far right conservatives don't like gays that it must mean the United States wants all gays dead. It's intellectually dishonest.
As for integration of the Palestinians into Israel -- I will again point out the numerous other countries that for some strange reason have zero interest in "integrating" the Palestinians into their country. In the last few decades we've become a population that is so damn scared of being called "phobic" of anything that we refuse to call a spade a spade. They are not a population that "integrates" or "assimilates", often times with violent results.
So what do you think Israel should do? What is your way out? I gave the only 4 options that come to mind. Integration, statehood, imprisonment/oppresion, and ethnic cleansing. Feel free to pick another option if you can think of one.
The Likud is not the end-all be-all for Israel, but when the ruling party of a nation basically advocates ethnic cleansing, then it's okay to call a spade a spade. The fact the the legal Muslim minority is growing doesn't take that away. It's okay to say Republicans are against abortion even when abortion numbers go up under Republican presidents. These things aren't always directly related
Yes it's okay to say "against abortion", it's another to sensationalize something as "ethnic cleansing" and "genocide" when it's very clearly not. Especially when you best support for it is a "basically advocates" (and outside of hard-liners, the Likud party while very much a "they are never going to live at peace with Jews" party it's not being completely truthful to frame them as "pro-ethnic-cleansing").
Again, it's simply an intellectually dishonest way of framing things and makes me question how honest you are being about any of your points. To use your same analogy of Republicans and abortion -- it's akin to saying that all Republicans believe people who have had or have an abortion should all be sentenced to death.
I mean, because they are "against abortion" after-all.
Sure, there are some far right that actually hold that belief. But to say the entire party supports that is simply not being honest. Ditto saying the country of Israel is pro-ethnic cleansing.
Especially when the group they are fighting against has literally stated they want to kill all Jews.
It's just a really poor argument.
