https://t.me/beholdisraelchannel/21694

Claims they are the victims.

Why don't they ever attack Egypt for closing their border?

This is very much a "watch at your own risk" video because you will see Hamas kill multiple innocent Jewish civilians.

This is the same group that hides behind women and children.

This is the same group that has stolen all the resources from Gaza to use for war.

This is the same group that is being protected by the media.

Again, extremely NSFW

Quote:

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Our life depends on the kind of thoughts we nurture. If our thoughts are peaceful, calm, meek, and kind, then that is what our life is like. If our attention is turned to the circumstances in which we live, we are drawn into a whirlpool of thoughts and can have neither peace nor tranquility.
- Elder Thaddeus

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As Christians we should not get drawn into the geopolitical sportsball. If we don't model Christ at a time like this then who will?

Sir DIppin, this is the third thread you've started on this board about Palestinians.

Do not be consumed with rage and anger; step away from the computer and go for a walk.

Again, no one here has ever excused what Hamas did. There's a difference between kids in Gaza and Hamas.

Quote:

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If we don't model Christ at a time like this then who will?

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The media, atheists, and liberals.

Sapper Redux said:

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Again, no one here has ever excused what Hamas did. There's a difference between kids in Gaza and Hamas.

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Not a whole lot. Those "innocent" kids in Gaza have been brainwashed to play "Stab the Jews" instead of Tag or Hide and Seek. Many of them will be future Hamas soldiers.

Serotonin said:

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Quote:

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Our life depends on the kind of thoughts we nurture. If our thoughts are peaceful, calm, meek, and kind, then that is what our life is like. If our attention is turned to the circumstances in which we live, we are drawn into a whirlpool of thoughts and can have neither peace nor tranquility.
- Elder Thaddeus

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As Christians we should not get drawn into the geopolitical sportsball. If we don't model Christ at a time like this then who will?

Sir DIppin, this is the third thread you've started on this board about Palestinians.

Do not be consumed with rage and anger; step away from the computer and go for a walk.

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I'm sure glad you weren't around during WW2

Sapper Redux said:

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Again, no one here has ever excused what Hamas did. There's a difference between kids in Gaza and Hamas.

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What is surprising to me is how many folks fail to make such a distinction and lump all Palestinians together!

PabloSerna said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Again, no one here has ever excused what Hamas did. There's a difference between kids in Gaza and Hamas.

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What is surprising to me is how many folks fail to make such a distinction and lump all Palestinians together!

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This. Many Gaza civilians are prisoners of Hamas as well. Hamas won't allow them to use their shelters or use stockpiled water, food or fuel to run their hospitals.

This is the third thread you have made on the subject. The last two didn't really go well for your arguments. Why another?

BonfireNerd04 said:

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Serotonin said:

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Quote:

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Our life depends on the kind of thoughts we nurture. If our thoughts are peaceful, calm, meek, and kind, then that is what our life is like. If our attention is turned to the circumstances in which we live, we are drawn into a whirlpool of thoughts and can have neither peace nor tranquility.
- Elder Thaddeus

---

As Christians we should not get drawn into the geopolitical sportsball. If we don't model Christ at a time like this then who will?

Sir DIppin, this is the third thread you've started on this board about Palestinians.

Do not be consumed with rage and anger; step away from the computer and go for a walk.

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I'm sure glad you weren't around during WW2

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WW2...yes, that's the one where we took on a militaristic ethnostate trying to remove and genocide ethnic/religious minorities.

SirDippinDots said:

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https://t.me/beholdisraelchannel/21694

Claims they are the victims.

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This wreaks more of an F16 discussion. Especially w/ the laughing emoji. They'll be happy to engage over there.

Sapper Redux said:

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Again, no one here has ever excused what Hamas did. There's a difference between kids in Gaza and Hamas.

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Plenty of people have. Some on here have justified Hamas' actions because, you know, Israel turned off the power or something.

Macarthur said:

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I know most here are aware but I think it needs to be said again that one of the oldest Christian communities are Palestinians trapped in the middle of this and dying everyday. I would think that would garner some sympathy from many Americans.

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And I am sure there were Christians in Dresden during WW II. Innocent are always affected by terrible leadership. Hamas is the elected government. So it's not like a huge number don't support obviously a lot do.

PabloSerna said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Again, no one here has ever excused what Hamas did. There's a difference between kids in Gaza and Hamas.

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What is surprising to me is how many folks fail to make such a distinction and lump all Palestinians together!

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It isn't a matter of failing to make a distinction. Rational people understand that with how Hamas hides behind civilians that many unnecessary deaths will occur.... and all of them will be Hamas' fault.

RAB91 said:

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PabloSerna said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Again, no one here has ever excused what Hamas did. There's a difference between kids in Gaza and Hamas.

---

What is surprising to me is how many folks fail to make such a distinction and lump all Palestinians together!

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It isn't a matter of failing to make a distinction. Rational people understand that with how Hamas hides behind civilians that many unnecessary deaths will occur.... and all of them will be Hamas' fault.

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Exactly. There is a big chasm between Hamas targeting civilians and Israel targeting Hamas and unfortunately hitting civilians because Hamas hides behind them.

AgLiving06 said:

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RAB91 said:

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PabloSerna said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Again, no one here has ever excused what Hamas did. There's a difference between kids in Gaza and Hamas.

---

What is surprising to me is how many folks fail to make such a distinction and lump all Palestinians together!

---

It isn't a matter of failing to make a distinction. Rational people understand that with how Hamas hides behind civilians that many unnecessary deaths will occur.... and all of them will be Hamas' fault.

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Exactly. There is a big chasm between Hamas targeting civilians and Israel targeting Hamas and unfortunately hitting civilians because Hamas hides behind them.

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Unless I'm reading you wrong, you're making the point that it's completely acceptable for as many civilian casualties as necessary to take out Hamas?

And if you look at what has gone on (it's really hard to look at), it appears Israel is making very VERY little effort to avoid civilian casualties.

Macarthur said:

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AgLiving06 said:

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RAB91 said:

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PabloSerna said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Again, no one here has ever excused what Hamas did. There's a difference between kids in Gaza and Hamas.

---

What is surprising to me is how many folks fail to make such a distinction and lump all Palestinians together!

---

It isn't a matter of failing to make a distinction. Rational people understand that with how Hamas hides behind civilians that many unnecessary deaths will occur.... and all of them will be Hamas' fault.

---

Exactly. There is a big chasm between Hamas targeting civilians and Israel targeting Hamas and unfortunately hitting civilians because Hamas hides behind them.

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Unless I'm reading you wrong, you're making the point that it's completely acceptable for as many civilian casualties as necessary to take out Hamas?

And if you look at what has gone on (it's really hard to look at), it appears Israel is making very VERY little effort to avoid civilian casualties.

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It isn't a matter of if I think it is acceptable or not. As long as Hamas hides behind civilians, these civilian casualties will take place. Israel has a right to make sure the slaughter that Hamas inflicted on their country never happens again. Hamas has the ability to end it all by releasing their hostages and moving their operations away from civilians. IMO they underestimated Israel's resolve on this. We'll see.....

Macarthur said:

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So, if Israel has to kill every last Palestinian to eradicate Hamas, we as a society should be fine with that?

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I think you should be asking Hamas (or a Hamas supporter) that question. It is such a f^&%ed up culture, they might ok with it.

We all agree Hamas is F'd up.

You didn't answer my question.

Macarthur said:

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We all agree Hamas is F'd up.

You didn't answer my question.

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You're correct. This is Hamas' decision.

Macarthur said:

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AgLiving06 said:

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RAB91 said:

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PabloSerna said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Again, no one here has ever excused what Hamas did. There's a difference between kids in Gaza and Hamas.

---

What is surprising to me is how many folks fail to make such a distinction and lump all Palestinians together!

---

It isn't a matter of failing to make a distinction. Rational people understand that with how Hamas hides behind civilians that many unnecessary deaths will occur.... and all of them will be Hamas' fault.

---

Exactly. There is a big chasm between Hamas targeting civilians and Israel targeting Hamas and unfortunately hitting civilians because Hamas hides behind them.

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Unless I'm reading you wrong, you're making the point that it's completely acceptable for as many civilian casualties as necessary to take out Hamas?

And if you look at what has gone on (it's really hard to look at), it appears Israel is making very VERY little effort to avoid civilian casualties.

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You're most certainly reading what I said wrong.

It's not acceptable to target citizens and Israel is not doing this. Israel has told the people of Gaza to evacuate to limit civilian deaths.

However, Hamas has told the people of Gaza to stay put, explicitly to hide behind them knowing if they die, many will cry about how heartless Israel is.

But what are the alternatives?

Should Israel just not target Hamas HQ that are hidden within civilian locations?
Should Israel risk it's own soldiers?

Answering yes to either is terrible war strategy.

So Israel continues to tell people to leave and if they don't, then they absolutely at risk of death. It's the unfortunately side effect of living in a war zone.

So we should pray that the civilians will heed the warnings and leave

RAB91 said:

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Macarthur said:

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We all agree Hamas is F'd up.

You didn't answer my question.

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You're correct. This is Hamas' decision.

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Again, you have not answered the question if Israel has ANY resonsibility for civilians.

If it takes killing every single Palenstinian, is that justified for Israel?

Macarthur said:

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RAB91 said:

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Macarthur said:

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We all agree Hamas is F'd up.

You didn't answer my question.

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You're correct. This is Hamas' decision.

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Again, you have not answered the question if Israel has ANY resonsibility for civilians.

If it takes killing every single Palenstinian, is that justified for Israel?

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No they have none. It's war. When your country decides to go to war there maybe many civilian casualties. That's what war is that is why it should be avoided at all costs. The Palestinians did. Or do this now they are reaping what they have sowed.

SirDippinDots said:

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Macarthur said:

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AgLiving06 said:

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RAB91 said:

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PabloSerna said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Again, no one here has ever excused what Hamas did. There's a difference between kids in Gaza and Hamas.

---

What is surprising to me is how many folks fail to make such a distinction and lump all Palestinians together!

---

It isn't a matter of failing to make a distinction. Rational people understand that with how Hamas hides behind civilians that many unnecessary deaths will occur.... and all of them will be Hamas' fault.

---

Exactly. There is a big chasm between Hamas targeting civilians and Israel targeting Hamas and unfortunately hitting civilians because Hamas hides behind them.

---

Unless I'm reading you wrong, you're making the point that it's completely acceptable for as many civilian casualties as necessary to take out Hamas?

And if you look at what has gone on (it's really hard to look at), it appears Israel is making very VERY little effort to avoid civilian casualties.

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Tell me what specifically? They dropped leaflets telling people to go south. Don't live next to a building or in a building with Hamas terrorists.

Not sure specifically what more you expect them to do. Please list specific actions they should take.

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I can tell you what I expect. I expect them to not kill women and children after they attempted to take the path that israel told them to take and then end up dead.


https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231103-breaking-palestinians-killed-as-they-fled-israels-bombs/

NSFW

Macarthur said:

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RAB91 said:

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Macarthur said:

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We all agree Hamas is F'd up.

You didn't answer my question.

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You're correct. This is Hamas' decision.

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Again, you have not answered the question if Israel has ANY resonsibility for civilians.

If it takes killing every single Palenstinian, is that justified for Israel?

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If Hamas keeps putting civilians in harms way, that's on them.

SirDippinDots said:

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Macarthur said:

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RAB91 said:

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Macarthur said:

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We all agree Hamas is F'd up.

You didn't answer my question.

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You're correct. This is Hamas' decision.

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Again, you have not answered the question if Israel has ANY resonsibility for civilians.

If it takes killing every single Palenstinian, is that justified for Israel?

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No they have none. It's war. When your country decides to go to war there maybe many civilian casualties. That's what war is that is why it should be avoided at all costs. The Palestinians did. Or do this now they are reaping what they have sowed.

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Thanks for answering honestly. It makes me sad.

Macarthur said:

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SirDippinDots said:

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Macarthur said:

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RAB91 said:

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Macarthur said:

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We all agree Hamas is F'd up.

You didn't answer my question.

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You're correct. This is Hamas' decision.

---

Again, you have not answered the question if Israel has ANY resonsibility for civilians.

If it takes killing every single Palenstinian, is that justified for Israel?

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No they have none. It's war. When your country decides to go to war there maybe many civilian casualties. That's what war is that is why it should be avoided at all costs. The Palestinians did. Or do this now they are reaping what they have sowed.

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Thanks for answering honestly. It makes me sad.

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It makes us all sad. But....
1 - Hamas brought this on themselves.
2 - They have the ability to possibly make it better (but not end it) by turning over all the hostages.