dermdoc said:

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The key is, as you alluded to, do you know Jesus and does Jesus know you?

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I know your universalist tendencies may not find this as big of a deal as I do, but what do you do with those that say they "believe in Jesus" but see nothing wrong with the LGBT marriage push? What about the ones who "believe in Jesus" but are totally ok with abortion? Those that see marriage as dissolvable any old time? The ones that used to say chattel slavery is A OK?

These people exist. They claim to know Christ and would say it to their dying breath, yet live in unrepentant sin. Wouldn't it be nice if there was a living, authoritative Church that Jesus left behind to help us through it, rather than a book that wasn't fully compiled for a few hundred years, was not available for distribution and even if it had been would have been received by a largely illiterate people?

I know this is a little tangential to the OP, but it's why ignoring what the church looked like at the very beginning and how it has been passed down to us can be incredibly dangerous. There are millions if people being taken in by false gospels. The Bible warned about to continuously. The best way to measure what you believe to be true is to test against the body of work compiled by those at the beginning and stood through the testing by the body of bishops. Otherwise this is all guess work.

And that's why the blackout theory, regardless of how literally it is ascribed to based on the protestant denomination or even the individual, isn't wise. Most of this board would ascribe to Arianism if it wasn't for a formal Church that could declare doctrine/dogma

The Banned said:

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dermdoc said:

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The key is, as you alluded to, do you know Jesus and does Jesus know you?

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I know your universalist tendencies may not find this as big of a deal as I do, but what do you do with those that say they "believe in Jesus" but see nothing wrong with the LGBT marriage push? What about the ones who "believe in Jesus" but are totally ok with abortion? Those that see marriage as dissolvable any old time? The ones that used to say chattel slavery is A OK?

These people exist. They claim to know Christ and would say it to their dying breath, yet live in unrepentant sin. Wouldn't it be nice if there was a living, authoritative Church that Jesus left behind to help us through it, rather than a book that wasn't fully compiled for a few hundred years, was not available for distribution and even if it had been would have been received by a largely illiterate people?

I know this is a little tangential to the OP, but it's why ignoring what the church looked like at the very beginning and how it has been passed down to us can be incredibly dangerous. There are millions if people being taken in by false gospels. The Bible warned about to continuously. The best way to measure what you believe to be true is to test against the body of work compiled by those at the beginning and stood through the testing by the body of bishops. Otherwise this is all guess work.

And that's why the blackout theory, regardless of how literally it is ascribed to based on the protestant denomination or even the individual, isn't wise. Most of this board would ascribe to Arianism if it wasn't for a formal Church that could declare doctrine/dogma

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You understand that with universal reconciliation there is punishment for sin?

Do you think the church should punish LGBT folks? I do not think that is Christ like.

Sticking to tenets and calling sin a sin is one thing. I do not think the church should do anything after that.

Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Klaus Schwab said:

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dermdoc said:

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Pro Sandy said:

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The Church being the body of all believers is radical? Ok.

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I was always taught that and have always believed it.

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What does this mean? Body of all believers? Obviously it's not the Catholics from the antichrist pope comment so there's one group removed. Church of England, Methodists, Baptist's, Anglican's, Lutherans, Non denominational, Reformed, etc. are all separate bodies. They are clearly divided and don't believe the same things. How can they be one?

Sounds like there is a misunderstanding on what a body is.

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This board depresses me. And makes me less excited about religion everytime I wander over here.

It's not good enough that we are all Christians, it has to be about who's the right kind of Christian.

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Well ya that would very important. Relativism is something that truth seekers would like to avoid.

Klaus Schwab said:

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Pro Sandy said:

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The Church being the body of all believers is radical? Ok.

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A body is one and visible.

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What do you mean by "visible"? Do you mean attending church services or otherwise being active with a church? In the Great Commandment Jesus said the most important laws are to love God and one another. If one loves Jesus and loves one another yet doesn't attend a church, are they a part of the "body" of Jesus's church?

Klaus Schwab said:

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During your 68 years have you been able to give a continual historical account of the Church?

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Why is that relevant? I believe that Jesus is God and that he sacrificed himself as restitution for our sins, was resurrected, and will come again to judge all. I believe that we must do our best to follow his commandments which includes loving one another.

What am I missing, please?

Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Almost forgot. That includes OP on the "Not of This World" thread and his uncalled for Catholic Church barb.

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Do you consider truthful statements to be "barbs"? I said that the Catholic Church is "of the world". Is it not? The Catholic Church is the ONLY faith system in the world that is recognized and accepted BY THE WORLD as being their own nation. The Catholic Church has staff working at the United Nations. Presidents and prime ministers are constantly meeting with the Pope with hordes of photographers in tow.

I myself do NOT belong to any denomination. I belong to the one, TRUE, church of Jesus and his church is in us and NOT in a worldly institution, let alone a building.

From John 15:19...
"If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own..."

Yes, the world does indeed love the Catholic Church.

BluHorseShu said:

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The Catholic Church states that Christ is the head of the Church as well. You are reading your own theology into some of those scriptures as well.

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The Catholic Church also teaches us to "serve Mary" along with a plethora of other theology that contradicts what God told us.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God[a] may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Did you catch that? "That the man of God may be COMPLETE..."!

In my view, the Catholic Church contradicts this verse as they have added a plethora of doctrine that is either NOT in the original scriptures or the Catholic Church will take a verse and twist it to fit its theology.

The Catholic Church apparently doesn't believe that what Jesus and the apostles is sufficient, as evidenced by all of the theology it has added over the centuries. In other words, the Catholic Church is here to tell us all of the doctrines that Jesus and the apostles accidentally left out.

First and foremost, of course, is that the Catholic Church teaches us to avoid God by praying to dead humans rather than to God himself. The Catholic Church teaches us to "serve Mary" rather than serve God. The Catholic Church teaches us to go to a man to seek forgiveness from God rather than asking God directly. The Catholic Church is of the world and NOT of God. It is an apostasy from God.

With that said, there are many Godly Catholics. My biological father was one of them. However, the Catholic Church itself is a false and corrupt system, or so I believe.

DirtDiver said:

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The Case for the Church being believers: Greek Ekklesia - called out ones, can be a group of called out ones or individuals

I think the simplest definition: a group of believers in Jesus.

Acts 8:1
Saul was in hearty agreement with putting him to death. And on that day a great persecution began against the church in Jerusalem, and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles. 2 Some devout men buried Stephen, and made loud lamentation over him. 3 But Saul began ravaging the church, entering house after house, and dragging off men and women, he would put them in prison.

The church here is believers

Acts: 11:22 The news about them reached the ears of the church at Jerusalem, and they sent Barnabas off to Antioch.

Church is people

Acts 20:22 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

God purchased people with His blood, not a denomination.

1 Corinthians 1:2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

Eph. 5:13 For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.

1 Corinthians: 12:12 For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
14 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot says, "Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body," it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear says, "Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body," it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired. 19 If they were all one member, where would the body be? 20 But now there are many members, but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you"; or again the head to the feet, "I have no need of you." 22 On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; 23 and those members of the body which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow more abundant honor, and our less presentable members become much more presentable, 24 whereas our more presentable members have no need of it. But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked, 25 so that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now you are Christ's body, and individually members of it. 28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. 29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? 30 All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31 But earnestly desire the greater gifts.

Foundation: Christ
Then apostles: eye witnesses of the resurrection, directly appointed by Jesus, (co-authors of Scripture) God is the ultimate author

From the apostles the gospel spread through evangelism and discipleship. They taught others who taught others who taught others, etc. See the pastoral epistles for qualifications of leadership.

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Great post with a lot of scriptural support. Surprisingly (or not) I'm the first here to give your post a "like".

Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Klaus Schwab said:

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dermdoc said:

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Pro Sandy said:

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The Church being the body of all believers is radical? Ok.

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I was always taught that and have always believed it.

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What does this mean? Body of all believers? Obviously it's not the Catholics from the antichrist pope comment so there's one group removed. Church of England, Methodists, Baptist's, Anglican's, Lutherans, Non denominational, Reformed, etc. are all separate bodies. They are clearly divided and don't believe the same things. How can they be one?

Sounds like there is a misunderstanding on what a body is.

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This board depresses me. And makes me less excited about religion everytime I wander over here.

It's not good enough that we are all Christians, it has to be about who's the right kind of Christian.

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Doctrinal discussions often triggers strong feelings. At its core, being a follower of Christ is about loving and obeying God and loving one another. One doesn't need to have a PHD in Christian Theology to be a great follower of Christ. I guarantee you there are very simple Christians who are more filled with the Holy Spirit than the faculty at Oral Roberts University.

dermdoc said:

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Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Klaus Schwab said:

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dermdoc said:

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Pro Sandy said:

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The Church being the body of all believers is radical? Ok.

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I was always taught that and have always believed it.

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What does this mean? Body of all believers? Obviously it's not the Catholics from the antichrist pope comment so there's one group removed. Church of England, Methodists, Baptist's, Anglican's, Lutherans, Non denominational, Reformed, etc. are all separate bodies. They are clearly divided and don't believe the same things. How can they be one?

Sounds like there is a misunderstanding on what a body is.

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This board depresses me. And makes me less excited about religion everytime I wander over here.

It's not good enough that we are all Christians, it has to be about who's the right kind of Christian.

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Can not blue star this enough.

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Was it wrong of me to express my opinion that the Catholic Church is "of the wirld"?

Is it your view that it's impolite to challenge another's doctrinal view on a discussion forum created to discuss such matters?

Is it impolite to lovingly tell a transgender woman that they are, in fact, a biological male?

Should truth be avoided so as not to offend another?

1 Timothy 4:3 esv
3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

It sounds like Paul was talking about the Catholic Church which teaches to avoid meat on Fridays during lent and which forbids priests, bishops, etc., from marriage.

Doesn't it seem ironic that the Catholic Church claims that Peter was the "first Pope" (he wasn't) and yet, even though Peter was married, the Catholic Church forbids its priests, etc., from marriage?

Matthew 8:14-17
King James Version
14 And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever.

DirtDiver said:

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Quote:

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The Church was established by Christ with Peter leading it. Jesus knew we would need leadership to teach and interpret scripture....Which is what the apostles initiated as the first leaders of His Church. They didn't initiate a game of telephone where the message gets changed as it gets passed on. The Body of Christ are all of the people. If it was just everyone by themselves to interpret the bible then why have any organizations at all? What makes more sense for Christ creating his Church? To say you all just figure it out and good luck, or that he left an actual Church to carry on his teachings? No, the Church is not just the people. Besides....soylent green is people

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Interpretive options:

13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?" 14 And they said, "Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets." 15 He *said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" 16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven." 20 Then He warned the disciples that they should tell no one that He was the Christ.

"Upon this rock I will build my church"

Is the rock the person of Peter?
OR
Is the rock the statement Peter said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God?"

I'm convinced that the rock is Peters statement as the church is built upon Jesus, the Christ, the Son of the living God and not the person of Peter. The disciples passed down the gospel and Jesus teachings through teaching, the scriptures God wrote through them, and discipleship. You and I can both interpret the scriptures without needing a church to interpret them for us. Teaching is a spiritual gift and we should learn from others and wrestle with the text but it's our responsibility to discern if a teacher/church is a false teacher or not. If we rely on a church to interpret the scriptures look at the history of the dangers that have occurred.

I think Paul would agree that you could add Peter's name in here with his and Apollos'.

4 For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not mere men?
5 What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one. 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. 7 So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth. 8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor. 9 For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. 11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

I could be wrong in my interpretation of "upon this rock" but to me it doesn't make sense for it to be the person of Peter.

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THE rock, foundation, or cornerstone has ALWAYS been God/Jesus. Again, the Catholic church removes God/Jesus from the equation and makes a human "the rock".

This is a VERY long write-up on this topic but it irrefutably demonstrates that Peter is "a" rock and NOT "the" rock.

Matthew 16:18 esv
18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock[a] I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Now let's expand the verse to get a better understanding of the context of Jesus' statement.

Matthew 16:13-20
Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?" 14 And they said, "Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets." 15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" 16 Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell[c] shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed[d] in heaven." 20 Then he strictly charged the disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ.

So Jesus asked a question, which Peter correctly answered and Jesus complimented him and then said that he is "rock", as evidenced by the fact that God had revealed to him that Jesus is the son of God, and then said that he would build his church on "this" rock.

The question is, who is "this" referring to? The Catholic Church teaches that it is Peter. If this was the only mention of "rock" in the Bible it would be hard to dispute their conclusion. However, the words "rock", "foundation", or "cornerstone" are used interchangeably throughout the Bible and they always refer to God/Jesus, except in this ONE instance, according to the Catholic Church.

So, what are the other verses that discuss things like "rock"?

Deuteronomy 32:4
"The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he.

That's what Moses said. Was Moses referring to Peter as being "perfect" or was he referring to God?

Even Peter himself referenced scripture that referred to Jesus as "a stone" and "the cornerstone".

1Peter 2:4 esv
As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, 5 you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
6 For it stands in Scripture: "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame."

Acts 4:11-13 esv
This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone.

Psalm 61:1-3 esv
To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments. Of David. Hear my cry, O God, listen to my prayer; from the end of the earth I call to you when my heart is faint. Lead me to the rock that is higher than I, for you have been my refuge, a strong tower against the enemy.

Isaiah 51:1 esv
"Listen to me, you who pursue righteousness, you who seek the Lord: look to the rock from which you were hewn, and to the quarry from which you were dug.

Corinthians 3:11-16 esv
For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

Psalm 18:1-2 esv
To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David, the servant of the Lord, who addressed the words of this song to the Lord on the day when the Lord delivered him from the hand of all his enemies, and from the hand of Saul. He said: I love you, O Lord, my strength. The Lord is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, my God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.

Isaiah 26:4 esv
Trust in the Lord forever, for the Lord God is an everlasting rock.

Psalm 19:14 esv
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in your sight, O Lord, my rock and my redeemer.

Matthew 7:24-25 esv
"Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock.

Psalm 18:46 esv
The Lord lives, and blessed be my rock, and exalted be the God of my salvation

It's noteworthy that Paul says below that the rock "was Christ".

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 esv
For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.

1 Samuel 2:2 esv
"There is none holy like the Lord: for there is none besides you; there is no rock like our God.

2 Samuel 22:2 esv
He said, "The Lord is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer,

I'm getting weird error messages and, for the time being, am unable to share the remainder of my message on who is "the rock".

M1Buckeye said:

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dermdoc said:

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Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Klaus Schwab said:

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dermdoc said:

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Pro Sandy said:

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The Church being the body of all believers is radical? Ok.

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I was always taught that and have always believed it.

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What does this mean? Body of all believers? Obviously it's not the Catholics from the antichrist pope comment so there's one group removed. Church of England, Methodists, Baptist's, Anglican's, Lutherans, Non denominational, Reformed, etc. are all separate bodies. They are clearly divided and don't believe the same things. How can they be one?

Sounds like there is a misunderstanding on what a body is.

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This board depresses me. And makes me less excited about religion everytime I wander over here.

It's not good enough that we are all Christians, it has to be about who's the right kind of Christian.

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Can not blue star this enough.

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Was it wrong of me to express my opinion that the Catholic Church is "of the wirld"?

Is it your view that it's impolite to challenge another's doctrinal view on a discussion forum created to discuss such matters?

Is it impolite to lovingly tell a transgender woman that they are, in fact, a biological male?

Should truth be avoided so as not to offend another?

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Never said any of that. All I did was agree that I wish Christians would concentrate on Jesus, which is what they have in common, and not differences.

And I am not Catholic, but some of the finest Christians I know are.

By their fruits ye shall know them.

dermdoc said:

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M1Buckeye said:

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dermdoc said:

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Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Klaus Schwab said:

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dermdoc said:

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Pro Sandy said:

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The Church being the body of all believers is radical? Ok.

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I was always taught that and have always believed it.

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What does this mean? Body of all believers? Obviously it's not the Catholics from the antichrist pope comment so there's one group removed. Church of England, Methodists, Baptist's, Anglican's, Lutherans, Non denominational, Reformed, etc. are all separate bodies. They are clearly divided and don't believe the same things. How can they be one?

Sounds like there is a misunderstanding on what a body is.

---

This board depresses me. And makes me less excited about religion everytime I wander over here.

It's not good enough that we are all Christians, it has to be about who's the right kind of Christian.

---

Can not blue star this enough.

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Was it wrong of me to express my opinion that the Catholic Church is "of the wirld"?

Is it your view that it's impolite to challenge another's doctrinal view on a discussion forum created to discuss such matters?

Is it impolite to lovingly tell a transgender woman that they are, in fact, a biological male?

Should truth be avoided so as not to offend another?

---

Never said any of that. All I did was agree that I wish Christians would concentrate on Jesus, which is what they have in common, and not differences.

And I am not Catholic, but some of the finest Christians I know are.

By their fruits ye shall know them.

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My advice to Christians that dislike reading doctrinal discussions is to avoid such discussions. Can we be united as brothers and sisters in Christ and still have friendly differences of opinion? I believe so.

M1Buckeye said:

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dermdoc said:

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M1Buckeye said:

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dermdoc said:

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Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Klaus Schwab said:

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dermdoc said:

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Pro Sandy said:

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The Church being the body of all believers is radical? Ok.

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I was always taught that and have always believed it.

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What does this mean? Body of all believers? Obviously it's not the Catholics from the antichrist pope comment so there's one group removed. Church of England, Methodists, Baptist's, Anglican's, Lutherans, Non denominational, Reformed, etc. are all separate bodies. They are clearly divided and don't believe the same things. How can they be one?

Sounds like there is a misunderstanding on what a body is.

---

This board depresses me. And makes me less excited about religion everytime I wander over here.

It's not good enough that we are all Christians, it has to be about who's the right kind of Christian.

---

Can not blue star this enough.

---

Was it wrong of me to express my opinion that the Catholic Church is "of the wirld"?

Is it your view that it's impolite to challenge another's doctrinal view on a discussion forum created to discuss such matters?

Is it impolite to lovingly tell a transgender woman that they are, in fact, a biological male?

Should truth be avoided so as not to offend another?

---

Never said any of that. All I did was agree that I wish Christians would concentrate on Jesus, which is what they have in common, and not differences.

And I am not Catholic, but some of the finest Christians I know are.

By their fruits ye shall know them.

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My advice to Christians that dislike reading doctrinal discussions is to avoid such discussions. Can we be united as brothers and sisters in Christ and still have friendly differences of opinion? I believe so.

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Sure. I never said differently.

It generally doesn't matter. The vast majority of Christians that visit these forums arrive and depart with the exact same doctrines. Even the word of GOD won't budge them from the doctrines to which they are married.

M1Buckeye said:

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It generally doesn't matter. The vast majority of Christians that visit these forums arrive and depart with the exact same doctrines. Even the word of GOD won't budge them from the doctrines to which they are married.

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I assume you lump yourself in this group? No matter how much history is shown about what our apostles and those who learned directly from the apostles believed, you haven't budged an inch. You believe that only your interpretation is cirrect. Why would you expect others to do so?

pretty sure its just the latest iteration of mfbarnes anyway, he just wants to get a rise out of people

The Banned said:

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M1Buckeye said:

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It generally doesn't matter. The vast majority of Christians that visit these forums arrive and depart with the exact same doctrines. Even the word of GOD won't budge them from the doctrines to which they are married.

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I assume you lump yourself in this group? No matter how much history is shown about what our apostles and those who learned directly from the apostles believed, you haven't budged an inch. You believe that only your interpretation is cirrect. Why would you expect others to do so?

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I have definitely adjusted my theology. I was raised a Catholic and after 50 years of being one I opened the Bible and recognized that much of their doctrine is not only unbiblical but CONTRADICTS the Bible.

Zobel said:

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pretty sure its just the latest iteration of mfbarnes anyway, he just wants to get a rise out of people

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I've consistently said that being a good Christian is simple and that it's about loving God and loving one another.

I've also said that we can get down into the weeds to discuss particulars on doctrines but that many people are uncomfortable about doing so and that they might be better off not going there. Nobody should "get a rise" because another expressed a differing doctrinal view.

The Banned said:

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M1Buckeye said:

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It generally doesn't matter. The vast majority of Christians that visit these forums arrive and depart with the exact same doctrines. Even the word of GOD won't budge them from the doctrines to which they are married.

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I assume you lump yourself in this group? No matter how much history is shown about what our apostles and those who learned directly from the apostles believed, you haven't budged an inch. You believe that only your interpretation is cirrect. Why would you expect others to do so?

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I have definitely adjusted my theology. I was raised a Catholic and after 50 years of being one I opened the Bible and recognized that much of their doctrine is not only unbiblical but CONTRADICTS the Bible.

M1Buckeye said:

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The Banned said:

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M1Buckeye said:

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It generally doesn't matter. The vast majority of Christians that visit these forums arrive and depart with the exact same doctrines. Even the word of GOD won't budge them from the doctrines to which they are married.

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I assume you lump yourself in this group? No matter how much history is shown about what our apostles and those who learned directly from the apostles believed, you haven't budged an inch. You believe that only your interpretation is cirrect. Why would you expect others to do so?

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I have definitely adjusted my theology. I was raised a Catholic and after 50 years of being one I opened the Bible and recognized that much of their doctrine is not only unbiblical but CONTRADICTS the Bible.

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And many on here have explained how our own beliefs have changed in the opposite direction. So tossing around that "even the word of God" won't change us,we rightfully stop listening to you

M1Buckeye said:

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The Banned said:

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M1Buckeye said:

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It generally doesn't matter. The vast majority of Christians that visit these forums arrive and depart with the exact same doctrines. Even the word of GOD won't budge them from the doctrines to which they are married.

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I assume you lump yourself in this group? No matter how much history is shown about what our apostles and those who learned directly from the apostles believed, you haven't budged an inch. You believe that only your interpretation is cirrect. Why would you expect others to do so?

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I have definitely adjusted my theology. I was raised a Catholic and after 50 years of being one I opened the Bible and recognized that much of their doctrine is not only unbiblical but CONTRADICTS the Bible.

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Could you give a specific example of Catholic doctrine (required for Catholics to believe as Christians) that contradicts the Bible? Because the Church specifically states that both its tradition and teaching CANNOT contradict scripture.
Its a bit ironic you make this statement. I grew up in a very very bible centric protestant church and it was only after I actually dove deeper in scripture that I realized that it was teaching things that were not found in scripture.
Sounds like you either had a bad or uninformed time while in the Catholic Church and that you really didn't understand the supporting scripture/traditions (which are interpretation of scripture). Which is unfortunate but also not uncommon for cradle Catholics.
Please show us one teaching of the Church required for salvation that contradicts scripture.

The Banned said:

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M1Buckeye said:

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The Banned said:

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M1Buckeye said:

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It generally doesn't matter. The vast majority of Christians that visit these forums arrive and depart with the exact same doctrines. Even the word of GOD won't budge them from the doctrines to which they are married.

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I assume you lump yourself in this group? No matter how much history is shown about what our apostles and those who learned directly from the apostles believed, you haven't budged an inch. You believe that only your interpretation is cirrect. Why would you expect others to do so?

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I have definitely adjusted my theology. I was raised a Catholic and after 50 years of being one I opened the Bible and recognized that much of their doctrine is not only unbiblical but CONTRADICTS the Bible.

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And many on here have explained how our own beliefs have changed in the opposite direction. So tossing around that "even the word of God" won't change us,we rightfully stop listening to you

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Not just here but elsewhere too. The vast majority of Christians arrive at a theological position to which they remain faithful till the end. One can provide scriptures out the wazoo and they won't budge. I'm likely the same way to a certain extent. At least we all believe in Jesus, which is all that truly matters. My point is not to get upset when others have differing theological views. There are dedicated "Christian" forums where doctrinal discussion is impossible for most as they become angry and get hateful with others.

BluHorseShu said:

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M1Buckeye said:

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The Banned said:

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M1Buckeye said:

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It generally doesn't matter. The vast majority of Christians that visit these forums arrive and depart with the exact same doctrines. Even the word of GOD won't budge them from the doctrines to which they are married.

---

I assume you lump yourself in this group? No matter how much history is shown about what our apostles and those who learned directly from the apostles believed, you haven't budged an inch. You believe that only your interpretation is cirrect. Why would you expect others to do so?

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I have definitely adjusted my theology. I was raised a Catholic and after 50 years of being one I opened the Bible and recognized that much of their doctrine is not only unbiblical but CONTRADICTS the Bible.

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Could you give a specific example of Catholic doctrine (required for Catholics to believe as Christians) that contradicts the Bible? Because the Church specifically states that both its tradition and teaching CANNOT contradict scripture.
Its a bit ironic you make this statement. I grew up in a very very bible centric protestant church and it was only after I actually dove deeper in scripture that I realized that it was teaching things that were not found in scripture.
Sounds like you either had a bad or uninformed time while in the Catholic Church and that you really didn't understand the supporting scripture/traditions (which are interpretation of scripture). Which is unfortunate but also not uncommon for cradle Catholics.
Please show us one teaching of the Church required for salvation that contradicts scripture.

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I'm nobody's judge. I know what the Bible says about salvation but only Jesus can judge.

I disagree with a lot of Catholic doctrine but its core beliefs on what is necessary to be saved is sound - believe in Jesus and love one another.

I apologize if I have sent a different message.

M1Buckeye said:

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The Banned said:

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M1Buckeye said:

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It generally doesn't matter. The vast majority of Christians that visit these forums arrive and depart with the exact same doctrines. Even the word of GOD won't budge them from the doctrines to which they are married.

---

I assume you lump yourself in this group? No matter how much history is shown about what our apostles and those who learned directly from the apostles believed, you haven't budged an inch. You believe that only your interpretation is cirrect. Why would you expect others to do so?

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I have definitely adjusted my theology. I was raised a Catholic and after 50 years of being one I opened the Bible and recognized that much of their doctrine is not only unbiblical but CONTRADICTS the Bible.

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It is convenient that you found a denomination or a belief system that allows you to pick and choose what you believe . I imagine you do think you have found the right answer.

You want to make God & the church anything you want it to be to fit your own personal belief system. I'm sure interpreting the Bible any way you want is quite convenient.

You would have to be a fool, considering everything that you believe is based upon the orthodox/Roman Catholic Church established traditions, including the Bible, and then say that the Catholic Church is wrong.