Matthew 6:7
King James
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Thaddeus73 said:

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The verse is mistranslated. It doesn't say vain repetition in the Vulgate..It says "many words."

Still not sure why it's appropriate to this thread...

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This.

I use the Jesus Prayer for centering and for when I am under spiritual attack.

The mistranslation "vain repetition" is really "many words." I once had a protestant minister pray over me at Lackland when I went for counseling when my folks were dying. He prayed for 5 or 10 minutes, making up the prayer as he was going along. He said "Father God" many, many times. I did feel better after the prayer, but he sure used "many words."

And besides, the follow up to that verse says "Your Father knows what you need before you ask him," so it is referring to petitionary prayer, and not to meditative prayer on the Gospels, which is what the Rosary is....

UTExan said:

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Thaddeus73 said:

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The verse is mistranslated. It doesn't say vain repetition in the Vulgate..It says "many words."

Still not sure why it's appropriate to this thread...

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This.

I use the Jesus Prayer for centering and for when I am under spiritual attack.

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Same here.

Also daily reading of the Anglican Book of Common Prayer.

Amen, and thank you!

The Banned said:

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Is this beneficial to the conversation in any way? Are sarcastic comments the best way to get your point across to other Christians?

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If you take it as sarcasm to give what the gospel says vs what religion says, ok.

Then try to use even a bit of decorum. Pretty sure the gospel speaks about how we are supposed to act and speak to one another.

BluHorseShu said:

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AG @ HEART said:

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No thanks, I'll pray to the father through the only advocate I have with him. I'll not waste my time asking someone who is dead to hear my prayers or ask them to pray for me when I have no assurance they can even hear me when my savior who never fails me tells me he will be my advocate.

Sure Mary is blessed among women but she's not worthy of adoration that belongs to my savior and my heavenly father.

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Woah there fella. You seemed to have stepped out on a big ledge here without really understanding what you're talking about. Apparently you misinterpret Matt. 22:32 and don't believe He is God of the living and not the dead.

I'm guessing you also believe adoration only has one definition and no one at your church wears a cross ring/necklace etc.

Just ask if your unsure what Catholics really teach. I was a protestant for a long time and thought like you.

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Oh i understand hes the God of the living, and that includes those living in eternity with him as we speak, maybe you misunderstand what I'm saying. I would rather spend my time praying to the one who says to pray in his name than pray to a person to pray for me no matter how blessed they where. I will not waste my devotion in prayer that belongs to God asking someone who is never mentioned in the bible as being one to intercede for mortals while they are in heaven. Sure, my sister who has passed away and is with the lord may pray for her family while in eternity and i have no issue with that. But i dare not try to commune with her and ask her to do so.

And im not concerned abt being labeled Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, Lutheran etc., because I've seen Cathoics more concerned with being catholic and following the religion and traditions. It reminds me a phrisees more concerned with the tradition added to the law of Moses making it neigh impossible to be justified.

At the end of the day I know i have salvation in Christ Jesus not because a religion men have laid with rules and steps they have prescribed, because i have felt the work of the lord in my life.The growing desire to spend my day in prayer and devotion to him. I have seen and felt the change in my living and thinking once i truly repented and cried to God that i was not able to fix myself and make this the last time to do a particular sin and yet fail again. I can see my prayers answered in the work he has done in my marriage and in my wife and how he has given us the fruits of the spirit and exemplified to each other and those outside of our message, I didn't need the church for that. Yes i have a home church since we are told to not forsake the congration and i love my brothers and sister in the lord, but I was saved outside from the organization not because of the organization.

Im not saying that Catholics are evil or that they don't have true organization as stated in biblical authority and not voted on in council, but i do believe as it says in 1st Corithians 5:6 that a little leavening leavens the whole batch. And that goes for not only the Catholic church but many others as well.

And no I don't hate people. That capacity has been removed from me thank God. I just don't agree that some of the traditions in the catholic religion are legitimate. And just because I disagree does not mean we are not brothers and sister in Christ.

AG @ HEART said:

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And no I don't hate people. That capacity has been removed from me thank God. I just don't agree that some of the traditions in the catholic religion are legitimate. And just because I disagree does not mean we are not brothers and sister in Christ.

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I agree on your last part. Sounds like we both love Jesus and do our best to see the truth of His Word.

I will never understand why some Catholics don't understand the difference between praying for, and praying to, someone. Paul even recommends it...

AG @ HEART said:

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No thanks, I'll pray to the father through the only advocate I have with him. I'll not waste my time asking someone who is dead to hear my prayers or ask them to pray for me when I have no assurance they can even hear me when my savior who never fails me tells me he will be my advocate.

Sure Mary is blessed among women but she's not worthy of adoration that belongs to my savior and my heavenly father.

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Amen. The praise and glory belongs to God.

Thaddeus73 said:

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I will never understand why some protestants don't believe in intercessory prayer. Paul even recommends it...

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Paul said we should pray for one another. He didn't tell us to pray to Mary, apostles, or "saints".

The Banned said:

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Is this beneficial to the conversation in any way? Are sarcastic comments the best way to get your point across to other Christians?

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I don't interpret him as being "sarcastic".

Asking a saint in heaven for intercessory prayer is much more powerful than asking a person on earth for intercessory prayer...James 5:16 ...and they can pray for you 24/7, even when you are asleep or even sinning....

and once you realize our prayers go through the saints in heaven before reaching God, it makes a lot of sense...

Revelation 5:8 and 8:3

Thaddeus73 said:

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and once you realize our prayers go through the saints in heaven before reaching God, it makes a lot of sense...

Revelation 5:8 and 8:3

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Agreed. I think unless you are able to sit down and have a thoughtful discussion with protestants who don't believe in it, then the cursory discussion isn't going to move the needle. As was mentioned some think that Catholics give the same adoration to Mary as Christ. At some point, I think many Christians are complacent where they are with their theology so the idea of even broaching something like this for consideration can seem like heresy based on how they were raised. Its even less concerning who believe the once saved always saved or that baptism is merely a suggestion for show because the aren't as concerned about digging more into scripture and context when proof texting seems to suffice for them. I used to be the exact same way.

I do admit though, that there are Catholics (usually older ones) who do give inordinate dedication to Mary, but obviously that is not what the Church teaches.

It seems to me that most Protestants are in a "Me and Jesus" mode."

Catholics are in a covenant relationship with Jesus (that would be the New Covenant). In a covenant relationship, like marriage, my family becomes your family, and vice versa. That was the way it was in scripture. And like it or not, the Mother-in-law is part of His family...

BluHorseShu said:

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AG @ HEART said:

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And no I don't hate people. That capacity has been removed from me thank God. I just don't agree that some of the traditions in the catholic religion are legitimate. And just because I disagree does not mean we are not brothers and sister in Christ.

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I agree on your last part. Sounds like we both love Jesus and do our best to see the truth of His Word.

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We need more of this!! I recently heard Matt Fradd (Pints with Aquinas) relay a quote he heard:

"When barbarians are at the door, feuding brothers will reconcile."

We are living in an age where the barbarian horde is rising. Make no mistake they are and will be targeting our doors. If we could spend as much time spreading the Good News to unbelievers as opposed to arguing amongst ourselves, I am convinced we would all live in a much more peaceful world with much fewer barbarians.