Three of my Christian friends are strongly against it and one of them strongly supports it. Another one of my Christian friends has a neutral opinion of it, but he's not as religious as the other friends I mentioned.

God instituted it, so we can not say "it's evil" as so many Christians today want to. This wasn't the same as God allowing for divorce or multiple marriages. He never said to do those things. He simply chose not to punish it. But He explicitly said the Israelites SHOULD use the death penalty. He actually prescribed it. Seems clear cut. We've gotten soft on this point over the past century.

As for whether we still need it, I guess that's up for debate. Technically we are pretty good at incarcerating murders for life and have a 99% chance of them never escaping. However, there is ample evidence some of these men will continue their life of crime while behind bars. Whether is perpetuating or coordinating prison violence, coordinating violence or crime outside of prison, or simple living out the rest of their days without any repentance, there are quite a few bad outcomes possible. We shouldn't act like locking them up solves everything.

I also believe the prisoner has a higher chance of saving his soul through repentance if he knows the day of his death is set. If we all knew our day of death ahead of time, I'm sure we'd all live differently. It gives the guilty the firm chance to know by what date he needs to get right with God. I believe this is more effective for the soul than letting a man live untold decades in such a hopeless place.

All that said, practically speaking it doesn't matter to me if the death penalty is used or not. I think it is prudent to use it, but not upset that we don't. And where it is used, it should never be for circumstantial evidence. It should be reserved for the hard evidence cases (weapon was found, body buried in the backyard type cases).

Like the proverbial 'atheist in the fox hole,' I doubt there are many people who oppose it for religious reasons who have had a loved one heinously harmed by someone who then faced the death penalty as a consequence.

Per above it is biblically based and if the state via a trial/jury of peers does convict and sentence someone to die I have no issue with it. It's an imperfect world with evil/demons in it, and if the fear of a death penalty prevents some harms, great. The death penalty itself is just a tool to decrease (the worst of) violent crime.

According to Christianity everyone, no matter how depraved or lost, has the potential for redemption. It also teaches that we should be willing to ignore the needs of the righteous for a time if it means that we can bring back one who is lost (the parable of the lost sheep). Given that I don't see how Christians can support the death penalty. Once a person is dead they've lost their chance for redemption. Until that point, it's still an open question. That doesn't even mention the fact that our savior, all his disciples, and countless Christians throughout history have been on the receiving end of an unjustly applied death penalty. So it sort of boggles my mind that there are Christians that are completely cool with secular governments having this power.

I'm against it simply because I think it's a very outdated and archaic practice, and I'm fully convinced we have executed innocents before.

On a philosophical level I dont think it does much good. It's no longer for security... like the OP said we are pretty good at locking people up for life and prison escapes are very rare. So since it's for punishment, all it does is satisfy a need for revenge. I simply dont believe that's a role the state should have.

Quote:

---

like the OP said we are pretty good at locking people up for life and prison escapes are very rare

---

Disagree, we suck at locking people up now and an escape convict brutally murdered a Texas family a few months ago.

I'm not really in favor of the death penalty, but the bible is certainly not against it.

Frok said:

---

Quote:

---

like the OP said we are pretty good at locking people up for life and prison escapes are very rare

---

Disagree, we suck at locking people up now and an escape convict brutally murdered a Texas family a few months ago.

I'm not really in favor of the death penalty, but the bible is certainly not against it.

---

Yeah I'm familiar with that tragic case. That was the result of completely inexcusable negligence across the board. Several security protocols were not followed, both in the prison and in the bus while transporting the prisoners. Multiple resignations need to happen if they haven't happened already. The dept of criminal justice failed that poor family.

That case is an exception. I'm not even sure if the killer was a candidate for the death penalty for the crime he was in prison for, so I dont think this tragic story supports an argument of keeping the death penalty.

He was eligible for the death penalty, but the prosecutor didn't seek it in his case, because while he willingly kidnapped the victim, he was planning on letting him go after he paid his drug debt, and was forced to kill him under the implied threat of death (at least that's what he claims). He was serving two consecutive life sentences for capital murder and attempted capital murder (forty years to life and thirty years to life, respectively, so seventy years to life) and would have been eligible for parole in 2075 when he was 99 at the earliest.

Strongly against, but it has very little to do with my faith.

I struggle internally with the death penalty. If the government's role is to affect justice, there's no question that some crimes are so heinous, the only just punishment is death. If the government's role is primarily the protection of its citizens, then it can be argued in either direction. You can argue that end can be accomplished without the death penalty. You can also argue that taking the death penalty off the table lessens the severity of the crime, but that its use as a deterrent is itself a measure of protection.

It's not an intrinsic evil, and the US political parties' respective stances on abortion make it a non issue with regard to my moral obligations in the voting booth.

I'm inclined to say that I'm against it because of the inherent possibility (probability even) for an innocent to be sentenced to death.

What are your thoughts on Nikolas Cruz (2018 Parkland shooter) avoiding the death penalty in October? He killed seventeen people and wounded seventeen more.

ramblin_ag02 said:

---

According to Christianity everyone, no matter how depraved or lost, has the potential for redemption. It also teaches that we should be willing to ignore the needs of the righteous for a time if it means that we can bring back one who is lost (the parable of the lost sheep). Given that I don't see how Christians can support the death penalty. Once a person is dead they've lost their chance for redemption. Until that point, it's still an open question. That doesn't even mention the fact that our savior, all his disciples, and countless Christians throughout history have been on the receiving end of an unjustly applied death penalty. So it sort of boggles my mind that there are Christians that are completely cool with secular governments having this power.

---

I am curious: if certain death wouldn't get that person to repent, what makes you think life in prison would?

Like i said in my first post, I'm not a death penalty pumper. I just don't think this particular piece of the anti-DP side holds up.

If someone is sentenced to life without parole, they have until their natural death to repent, but if they're sentenced to death, they have until they're executed to repent, which is less time than they would have if they were sentenced to life.

The Banned said:

---

God instituted it, so we can not say "it's evil" as so many Christians today want to. This wasn't the same as God allowing for divorce or multiple marriages. He never said to do those things. He simply chose not to punish it. But He explicitly said the Israelites SHOULD use the death penalty. He actually prescribed it. Seems clear cut. We've gotten soft on this point over the past century.

As for whether we still need it, I guess that's up for debate. Technically we are pretty good at incarcerating murders for life and have a 99% chance of them never escaping. However, there is ample evidence some of these men will continue their life of crime while behind bars. Whether is perpetuating or coordinating prison violence, coordinating violence or crime outside of prison, or simple living out the rest of their days without any repentance, there are quite a few bad outcomes possible. We shouldn't act like locking them up solves everything.

I also believe the prisoner has a higher chance of saving his soul through repentance if he knows the day of his death is set. If we all knew our day of death ahead of time, I'm sure we'd all live differently. It gives the guilty the firm chance to know by what date he needs to get right with God. I believe this is more effective for the soul than letting a man live untold decades in such a hopeless place.

All that said, practically speaking it doesn't matter to me if the death penalty is used or not. I think it is prudent to use it, but not upset that we don't. And where it is used, it should never be for circumstantial evidence. It should be reserved for the hard evidence cases (weapon was found, body buried in the backyard type cases).

---

Are you aware of what Banned means in Hebrew?

It is applied when the premeditated taking of a life must be paid with your life.
The death penalty when thought of correctly elevates the value of life, and is consistent.

The use of the lost sheep parable is a serious mis-interpretation.
The postponing the needs of righteous to potentially save the soul of a murderer is sadly flawed.
You have no basis for a just war, such as stopping Nazi Germany if one were take this belief seriously.

The role of government is to protect the lives of citizens not delay justice in hopes of redemption of a murderer.
Repeat offenders is one of many problems caused by this flawed understanding of government and justice.

The problem with so many of you who do not support the death penalty is your underestimation of evil, and the offense it is to God. The worst part of this idea is the lack of concern for the souls of the victims.

How do you know the murder victim was saved, you don't.

The Banned said:

---

God instituted it, so we can not say "it's evil" as so many Christians today want to. This wasn't the same as God allowing for divorce or multiple marriages. He never said to do those things. He simply chose not to punish it. But He explicitly said the Israelites SHOULD use the death penalty. He actually prescribed it. Seems clear cut. We've gotten soft on this point over the past century.

As for whether we still need it, I guess that's up for debate. Technically we are pretty good at incarcerating murders for life and have a 99% chance of them never escaping. However, there is ample evidence some of these men will continue their life of crime while behind bars. Whether is perpetuating or coordinating prison violence, coordinating violence or crime outside of prison, or simple living out the rest of their days without any repentance, there are quite a few bad outcomes possible. We shouldn't act like locking them up solves everything.

I also believe the prisoner has a higher chance of saving his soul through repentance if he knows the day of his death is set. If we all knew our day of death ahead of time, I'm sure we'd all live differently. It gives the guilty the firm chance to know by what date he needs to get right with God. I believe this is more effective for the soul than letting a man live untold decades in such a hopeless place.

All that said, practically speaking it doesn't matter to me if the death penalty is used or not. I think it is prudent to use it, but not upset that we don't. And where it is used, it should never be for circumstantial evidence. It should be reserved for the hard evidence cases (weapon was found, body buried in the backyard type cases).

---

Actually, God instituted the death penalty for those that were 100%, unequivocally guilty. If we institute the death penalty for someone, unbeknownst to us, is innocent, their blood is on our hands. So while it may be justified, our current justice system makes mistakes all the time. So consideration of killing someone requires significant and error free scrutiny

lethalninja said:

---

If someone is sentenced to life without parole, they have until their natural death to repent, but if they're sentenced to death, they have until they're executed to repent, which is less time than they would have if they were sentenced to life.

---

If I told you that you were going to die next Wednesday, would it not cause you to be a bit more introspective over the next week? Might it stir you to go to those you've harmed and really let them know how sorry you are?

Lots of time should mean lots of time to think. But it also creates no sense of urgency and men are just as likely to sit in their sin and commit many, many more of them. Many men do exactly that. Murders, rapes, etc.

BluHorseShu said:

---

The Banned said:

---

God instituted it, so we can not say "it's evil" as so many Christians today want to. This wasn't the same as God allowing for divorce or multiple marriages. He never said to do those things. He simply chose not to punish it. But He explicitly said the Israelites SHOULD use the death penalty. He actually prescribed it. Seems clear cut. We've gotten soft on this point over the past century.

As for whether we still need it, I guess that's up for debate. Technically we are pretty good at incarcerating murders for life and have a 99% chance of them never escaping. However, there is ample evidence some of these men will continue their life of crime while behind bars. Whether is perpetuating or coordinating prison violence, coordinating violence or crime outside of prison, or simple living out the rest of their days without any repentance, there are quite a few bad outcomes possible. We shouldn't act like locking them up solves everything.

I also believe the prisoner has a higher chance of saving his soul through repentance if he knows the day of his death is set. If we all knew our day of death ahead of time, I'm sure we'd all live differently. It gives the guilty the firm chance to know by what date he needs to get right with God. I believe this is more effective for the soul than letting a man live untold decades in such a hopeless place.

All that said, practically speaking it doesn't matter to me if the death penalty is used or not. I think it is prudent to use it, but not upset that we don't. And where it is used, it should never be for circumstantial evidence. It should be reserved for the hard evidence cases (weapon was found, body buried in the backyard type cases).

---

Actually, God instituted the death penalty for those that were 100%, unequivocally guilty. If we institute the death penalty for someone, unbeknownst to us, is innocent, their blood is on our hands. So while it may be justified, our current justice system makes mistakes all the time. So consideration of killing someone requires significant and error free scrutiny

---

I agree. That doesn't discount the legitimacy of the death penalty. Just means it needs to be done better

1. My God instituted and approved the death penalty. Some are not fit to remain among the others.
2. Death is NOT the end

ramblin_ag02 said:

---

According to Christianity everyone, no matter how depraved or lost, has the potential for redemption. It also teaches that we should be willing to ignore the needs of the righteous for a time if it means that we can bring back one who is lost (the parable of the lost sheep). Given that I don't see how Christians can support the death penalty. Once a person is dead they've lost their chance for redemption. Until that point, it's still an open question. That doesn't even mention the fact that our savior, all his disciples, and countless Christians throughout history have been on the receiving end of an unjustly applied death penalty. So it sort of boggles my mind that there are Christians that are completely cool with secular governments having this power.

---

Sorry, I get your point but I fully believe Christianity is compatible with the death penalty. And I am for the death penalty. The Bible spells out crimes that call for the death penalty.

I don't like that Charles Manson got to live for years after the murders. I really don't like that Tex Watson had 4 kids after the murders. It's a corruption of society.

I can't tell you how many murderers were let go in the 1960s and 1970s to murder again.

I also believe in the death penalty for rape and child abuse, things the supreme court has struck down. And how much recidivism is there?

I get that we want all to repent of our sins, but none of us know how long we have.

Quote:

---

Sorry, I get your point but I fully believe Christianity is compatible with the death penalty. And I am for the death penalty. The Bible spells out crimes that call for the death penalty.

---

The death penalty in the OT was part of an entire fully formed justice system with God Himself as the court of last resort. Very much different than a bunch of flawed humans trying to enact "justice". Also, as Christians we should be focused on the eternal fates of everyone, including the most horrible people. You and I won't know if someone like Charles Manson can be redeemed and gain eternal life unless we let them live to find out. Everyone is going to die eventually. No need for us to cut their time and opportunity for salvation any shorter than it already is.

I think we should be more liberal with its application. It'd save us some money and deter poor behavior.

If we are going to have the death penalty, it should only be applied when there is zero doubt of the defendant's guilt. It should never be imposed when the conviction is based on circumstantial evidence. I am not sure what the standard of evidence should be, but, just throwing some ideas out for discussion, multiple eyewitnesses together with DNA evidence, or the like, might be required.

Quote:

---

According to Christianity everyone, no matter how depraved or lost, has the potential for redemption. It also teaches that we should be willing to ignore the needs of the righteous for a time if it means that we can bring back one who is lost (the parable of the lost sheep). Given that I don't see how Christians can support the death penalty. Once a person is dead they've lost their chance for redemption.

---

• I believe your first sentence is true.
• I don't think the purpose of the lost sheep illustration is about ignoring the needs of anyone. In context, Jesus is dining with sinners. Jesus gives 3 examples (coin, sheep, son) of how these "lost" things have value. Sinners have value in his eyes.

How can Christians support the death penalty: Let's looks at the legal rules God gave Israel and the purpose and warnings about government rule in the NT.

OT Instructions
"You shall also say to the sons of Israel: 'Any man from the sons of Israel or from the aliens sojourning in Israel who gives any of his offspring to Molech, shall surely be put to death; the people of the land shall stone him with stones. Lev. 20:2

"He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death. Exodus 21:16

NT Observations:
1 Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority, 14 or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right.

Romans 13: 1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. 3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; 4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.

I do not know of any interpretive option where bearing the sword would not refer to a lethal blow.

Part 2:
Apart from the cases above. We also need to consider a few other facts that are contained within the scriptures.

Facts:
1. Innocent people die.
2. Innocent people die unjustly.
3. Innocent people have died due to unjust governing authorities.
4. God does not make mistakes.
5. God is not in the business of ripping people off.
6. No one is going to hell that didn't deserve to go there.
7. No one in heaven deserved to go there. They are there because their sins have been forgiven/covered.
8. God is in the business of executing justice either directly or through human representation.
9. Not all justice is executed in our temporary earthly lifespan.


For momentary, light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison . 2 Corinthians 4:17

larry culpepper said:

---

I'm against it simply because I think it's a very outdated and archaic practice, and I'm fully convinced we have executed innocents before.

On a philosophical level I dont think it does much good. It's no longer for security... like the OP said we are pretty good at locking people up for life and prison escapes are very rare. So since it's for punishment, all it does is satisfy a need for revenge. I simply dont believe that's a role the state should have.

---

This is really the only correct answer.

I have no quarrel what so ever with killing someone that killed another, but there's just too many problems with our system to guarantee we get it right 100% of the time. (Answering as a non-Christian)

lethalninja said:

---

If someone is sentenced to life without parole, they have until their natural death to repent, but if they're sentenced to death, they have until they're executed to repent, which is less time than they would have if they were sentenced to life.

---

Only 20 years on average.

For the people in this thread who support the death penalty, what are your thoughts on last meals for death row inmates?

Strongly in favor of it.
It was, as has been stated, clearly ordained by God.
God's gave the justifications for it.
God is the author of life, so who are we to now say that he was/is somehow wrong??
On the topic of a criminal's salvation or opportunity for salvation, no one comes to the Father unless the Father calls him. I believe that opportunity is there right up until the last moment and God will call who He wills. Our utilizing the God ordained death penalty in a just manner, is not going to thwart God's plan for that person's salvation.

On last meals, I see no reason to not still show love toward the person who is justly facing a death sentence. A last meal is certainly fine with me. Perhaps it's an opportunity for that person to come to a heart of repentance and of acceptance of Christ.

Macarthur said:

---

larry culpepper said:

---

I'm against it simply because I think it's a very outdated and archaic practice, and I'm fully convinced we have executed innocents before.

On a philosophical level I dont think it does much good. It's no longer for security... like the OP said we are pretty good at locking people up for life and prison escapes are very rare. So since it's for punishment, all it does is satisfy a need for revenge. I simply dont believe that's a role the state should have.

---

This is really the only correct answer.

I have no quarrel what so ever with killing someone that killed another, but there's just too many problems with our system to guarantee we get it right 100% of the time. (Answering as a non-Christian)

---

This is where I am. As a child, I was surprised to learn that my dad was opposed to the death penalty, being a thorough Goldwater conservative. When I asked why, he answered, "It's a poor man's sentence."

As far as being consistent with Christian teaching, scripture and tradition clearly permit it.

Quote:

---

"It's a poor man's sentence."

---

I had not heard that summary before, but your dad was spot on.

There are zero biblical arguments against it. So the "as a Christian" preface seems like a straw man. I've been to hear Hauerwas, etc., but there are no direct doctrinal arguments. Like Ramblin_ag02, a thoughtful if somewhat self-righteous post, but all indirect reasoning.

I am against the death penalty on moral and civil liberty grounds.But I really do not like my stance. With most of these murderers, I would be more than happy to be the one who flips the switch / pushes the plunger / whatever. I am glad to see them die, even though I am against killing them.

I think I'm one of the few people who has a political stance which they really do not personally like. I often wish I could be like the liberals who just go with whatever view makes them feel good - it sure would be easier.

94chem said:

---

There are zero biblical arguments against it. So the "as a Christian" preface seems like a straw man. I've been to hear Hauerwas, etc., but there are no direct doctrinal arguments. Like Ramblin_ag02, a thoughtful if somewhat self-righteous post, but all indirect reasoning.

---

I saw that movie. I heard it was based on actual events.