ramblin_ag02 said:

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Quote:

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Then there is the whole aspect of heaven being like a wedding feast - so I think there is a lot of imagery from the Bible on weddings.

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Chicken Dance in heaven confirmed

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And Kool and the Gang will play 'Celebrate'…live

Ok so here are my 2 cents, because I waded through this issue several years back when my sister asked me to do the ceremony for her and her now husband.

• On authority - I too did a dive on biblically who has authority to perform a marriage and I couldn't find anything one way or the other. So I looked at the churches/denominations I had been a part of over the years, to see their take. In each of these churches, to do a wedding on behalf of said church you had to be an ordained minister, but they viewed marriages not done in the church as still being fully legitimate. So to me this said the stance communicated the rule was not about the validity of the marriage and but about having order in the church. (I'm not catholic or orthodox if that isn't already abundantly clear). So once I established that I wouldn't necessarily be engaging in sin as far as I could tell by saying yes I moved on to the next question.
• Where to get my authority - the laws of California at the time said I either needed to be one of a few government employees (which I wasn't) or ordained, so time to look at ordination. This is the part where I got uncomfortable. My church at the time (Houston FBC) was clearly not going to ordain me for this, and many of the "online ordination" churches were very universalist in their beliefs which made sense considering the territory. While I was willing to do the marriage outside of the church with a clear conscience, especially since neither she nor her fiance were church members, I was not comfortable being ordained by a "church" I couldn't agree with since for each ordination at the end you affirm a belief statement. Affirming a belief statement I didn't actually align with seemed like a clear non-starter for me. After much digging however, I finally found one that was basically an evangelical belief (United National Ministry if you are interested). I felt comfortable affirming their belief statement so I moved on to my final questions.
• How to do the ceremony - As mentioned above, neither my sister nor her fiance were/are part of a church. My sister would claim to be "spiritual but not religious" and her now husband is openly atheist/agnostic (though not hostile in any way to spiritual belief). I would really categorize both as non-Christian if pushed. Like many of you, I too believe marriage is more than a legal contract but is vow before God. And I think that is true whether or not the couple are believers. So what do I do with this? Where I landed was, they are going to get married whether or not I do the ceremony, so would it not be better to do what I can to make it more of a vow before God rather than a civil union? So I wrote out the ceremony in very clear language about what marriage is, even including a brief Gospel presentation and sent it to them to look at. I decided if they were comfortable with my doing the ceremony that way, then I was more than happy to do it.

In the end after satisfying those questions, I ended up officiating their wedding and am really glad that I did. But I would have been uneasy with it to this day had I not gone through the process described before. I guess that's exactly what Paul was talking about when he said, "But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin."

Thanks BlackGold,

I appreciate your post. You've hit the nail on the head exactly how I've been thinking through it and my hangups about it. Most of the universalist statements are just absolute nonstarters. I was starting to find churches that were more narrow in scope with their claims. One was straight up a first amendment clearinghouse operating as a "church". I thought that was cool that they were approaching it from a first amendment stance, and while I agree with their stance, I wasn't going to claim no divine involvement at all in marriage. Will look into United National Ministry.

I especially like the idea of sending out exactly whats going to be talked about and getting them to agree to it beforehand.

Also, I've appreciate everyone's thoughts on this.

one MEEN Ag said:

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Thanks BlackGold,

I appreciate your post. You've hit the nail on the head exactly how I've been thinking through it and my hangups about it. Most of the universalist statements are just absolute nonstarters. I was starting to find churches that were more narrow in scope with their claims. One was straight up a first amendment clearinghouse operating as a "church". I thought that was cool that they were approaching it from a first amendment stance, and while I agree with their stance, I wasn't going to claim no divine involvement at all in marriage. Will look into United National Ministry.

I especially like the idea of sending out exactly whats going to be talked about and getting them to agree to it beforehand.

Also, I've appreciate everyone's thoughts on this.

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The other thing about choosing a place I just remembered was that when I was researching at the time I remember coming across at least one legal challenge to the validity of a marriage done by one of the more universalist type places. The challenge stemmed from the fact that the officiant wasn't a "religious minister" because there was no sincerely held religious belief associated with the ordination. If I recall correctly, the challenge was basically that the "church" had no religious belief, and the minister certainly didn't align with the lack of belief and so it didn't satisfy the requirement to be an authorized person under the law. I don't recall the outcome but that was another reason in my mind to stick to an organization that had an actual professed belief and one that I agreed with. From the pragmatic, legal standpoint, that would mean the state would have to dive into the waters of what is and is not a "real religious organization" since the beliefs were all sincere and "orthodox" or diving in to telling a religious group who they can and can't ordinate. I felt safe legally that no state was going to dive that deep into a first amendment challenge.


as an aside, i think i've still got the script I used for my sister's wedding, If you decide to move forward want to take a look for starting ideas let me know and i can dig it up and post it.

Hey I'd greatly appreciate it you could find that script. Thanks for all the advice.

I will preface this with, I can't take credit for this full thing as I basically copied/adapted what the pastor who married my wife and I did for our wedding. that being said, here is what I used (tried to remove as much identifying info as possible, everywhere in italics was the appropriate name):


for starters, I had the bride and groom each separately answer these questions and send them to me without seeing each other's answers ahead of time. this let me weave them into the ceremony.

1) Describe the first time you remember meeting each other. Include as much detail as possible, including first impressions.
2) Describe your first date.
3) Describe the time when you KNEW the other was the one you wanted to marry & why.
4) Describe the engagement in as much detail as possible.
5) Describe the things you admire about the other person as well as they ways in which the other person inspires you to be "better."


Bride/Groom Wedding Ceremony
Venue
Saturday, October 15. 5:30PM

I. 5:00PM: Prelude music/Seating of Guests
II. 5:30PM: Seating

Grandparents
Parents

III. Processional:

Minister, Groom, Best Man, Groomsmen
Bridesmaids
Bride (escorted by her father)

Welcome & Charge to the Congregation:

Dear family and friends, we're gathered together this evening in the sight of God to join together bride's name and groom's name in holy matrimony. Marriage is the creative work of God, not a man-made idea. This institution has been blessed by Jesus Christ as evidenced at his attendance at a wedding in Cana and the book of Proverbs says "He who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favor from the Lord".

This is covenant relationship and should never be entered into unadvisedly or lightly. I know that groom's name and bride's name have sought counsel and given this decision much time and consideration. This is one of the reasons that today should also be a joyful occasion…one in which we celebrate the beginning of this lifelong commitment and journey together. It's truly a great joy to welcome all of you on their day.

As witnesses, it is our honor to encourage groom's name and bride's name, as well as to pray for them, love them and hold them accountable for the vows they'll make here today. If you so promise to do these things, signify by saying, "I will." (I will)

Thank you. Please be seated.


Giving of The Bride:

From Genesis 2, we read the earliest and original definition of marriage: "For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and they shall become one flesh." God Himself is the author of this definition...So,

Groom's name, understanding this, is it your desire to take bride's name as your wedded wife? And do you solemnly promise, before God and these witnesses, that you will love her, comfort her, honor her and keep her, in sickness in health, forsaking all others, as long as you both shall live?

(Groom's name: "I do."or anything in the affirmative!)

Bride's name, understanding this, is it your desire to take groom's name as your wedded husband? And do you solemnly promise, before God and these witnesses, that you will love him, comfort him, honor him and keep him, in sickness and in health, forsaking all others, as long as you both shall live?

(Bride's name: "I do."or anything in the affirmative!)

Since these two individuals have expressed the desire to cleave to one another, who gives this woman to be married to this man?

(Father of the bride: "Her mother and I do."or anything similar in nature of his choosing)

(Father of the bride then places bride's name's arm on groom's name's arm, shares a moment, kisses bride, then takes his seat)

Introduction:

Good evening, everyone. My name is Blackgoldag2011 and for those who don't know me, I am bride's name's brother have had the privilege of being so for the last 25 and a half years. I've had the joy of growing up with her as a constant friend by my side, as well as the joy of having a built in outlet when I needed someone to torment. Through these two and a half decades we have been through many seasons, some close and some farther apart, but always with that unique bond of siblings that always seems to defy any level of separation. And now I have the immense privilege of being a part of such an incredible moment in her life. And Bride's name, I was and am truly humbled and joyful when you asked me to do this. Groom's name, you may not know this, but even before I met you, I've been praying for you. I have been praying that she would find a man that would love her ferociously and be uniquely equipped to handle her uh… quirks. I knew Groom's name was that man when he was willing and eager to brave a hunting trip to very secluded West Texas with his future brother in law and father in law. It's encouraging to me to see how God has answered those prayers. So thank you both for allowing me to be a small part of this day.

A lot of people here may not know the story of how you met and grew in your relationship…so just a few highlights in your own words. You both remember meeting for the first time at Buffalo Wild Wings where bride's name was working at the time. Groom's name describes his first impressions in detail and it was clearly striking because he said after that he "never stopped thinking about [you] after that point." Bride's name, you described a pretty strong first impression as well, "A table of 3 dudes, helloooo big tip."

Their first actual date was a little while later. Groom's name recalls trying and failing to get bride's name to commit to a real date several times. The one that finally stuck, after bride's name gave another noncommittal response to, in her words, "try and keep her options open", he decided to be a bit more direct and simply said, "I'm picking you up at 7:30 for dinner, be ready." For the second time, bride's name was impressed by his assertiveness. Dinner was to their now favorite sushi spot, Yuzu. When drinks arrived, groom's name reached over and poured bride's name's for her which she thought was sweet, but when he then told her to pour his, her immediate response was, "Its 2013, pour your own damn drink." He then explained that in Japanese culture it is bad luck to pour your own drink, at which point she was "mortified." So groom's name, it seems like you have known the type of woman you were getting from the very beginning.

As the relationship grew, they began to notice traits in each other that made their attraction and love grow deeper. The first trait groom's name described was bride's names ability to be herself, and express herself even when it's not popular. Which from the sound of things, he has been experiencing from the very start. He also spoke of her independence to move across the country at 18 and start a life for herself, and how big of a heart she has for those around her, and specifically her love and protection of friends and family. You describe her as a source of strength for getting through some of the more difficult issues of life. This view will make for a wonderful marriage by the way.

Bride's name talked about his work ethic his confidence, and the passion he puts into what he does. She also describes the way he is a strong leader and a great "son/brother/friend" always being there for people, even in just the little things.

Groom's name showed a great level of romance, as well as cleverness in the engagement, getting her out of town for the weekend with a ruse about going to the horse races without her ever suspecting a thing. He took her to the Fairmont Grand Del Mar, had a nice dinner and led her out to the helipad for a champagne toast all without her being the wiser. Once on the helipad with a glass of champagne he took a knee and proposed, and then as the final piece had her friends and family waiting to celebrate with her. Good thing she said yes. That would have been awkward.

So, as we can all see, groom's name and bride's name love each other deeply. Both of them mentioned knowing that the other was the one for them, long before the engagement even happened. Groom's name even said he had the ring for nearly a year. I find that especially impressive as I was only able to hold onto the engagement ring for about 6 hours before giving it to my wife. I'm excited for your both as we go into this ceremony, because the two of you standing here clearly love each other very much, and inspire the other person to be better each day and that is just so refreshing and exciting to be a part of.

With that in mind, will you bow your heads with me as I pray for this couple?

Father, we are thankful that you are a holy God who provides all blessings for us. We are thankful for the union we are about to witness today, and we pray for groom's name and bride's name, that they'll demonstrate true love in their marriage. We pray that others who look upon their relationship will be encouraged, and that they will develop deeper relationships because of it. We pray that all their actions towards each other would be a reflection of Your love and are so thankful that today is the beginning of their incredible, life long Journey. And Jesus, we thank you that you first loved us and gave us a model for how to love each other deeply. It is in Your precious name we pray. Amen.


Charge to the Bride and Groom: A SHORT Devotional

Well, guys, since you've expressed a desire to be joined in Holy Matrimony, please let me take a few moments to tell you why I think marriage is such a big deal and why I love marriage so much.

The Bible paints marriage as a picture of Christ's love for the Church, calling the Church the bride of Christ. It tells us that Jesus Christ loves the church, long before it was ever even called the church, so incredibly much that while His bride did not love Him, He willing went to die on the cross for her so that she would no longer have to live under condemnation. He gave up his life for her, for us, that we would not have to suffer judgment, and He did this in spite of us, his bride, not loving him.

In addition to this being such incredible news to us, what a fantastic way to look at and approach marriage. While I have by no means figured out all there is to know about marriage, this is something I have seen in my own marriage to be so key, in building the strength of our relationship. I'm sure you have heard said before, that love is not just a feeling, and this couldn't be better portrayed than in that display I just gave you. True love, is the daily decision to act towards one another in the way that is the most beneficial to the other person, without regard for yourself. Groom's name, there will come days, and likely already have, when bride's name acts a little crazy and is just driving you nuts, maybe even making you furious. As her husband, you get to choose to respond to her by loving her patiently and tenderly in spite of how you feel in that moment and she will fall deeper in love with you for it, once she realizes she was being crazy that is. Side note, never tell a crazy woman she is acting crazy in the moment, speaking from experience, that doesn't go well. Bride's name, there will come days where groom's name frustrates you to no end and you can't for the life of you figure out why he is doing the thing he is doing, and in spite that frustration and the desire to tell him how to do it "the white way" (aside for the internet: our last name is white, so this is a family joke, you can do things the wrong way or the white way, felt the need to clarify that we make bad puns, we aren't racist), you get to choose to support and love him in a way that builds him up, and he will cherish you even more for it.

From all that I can tell, you are both competitive people, and that is great. Use that competitiveness to continually try to outdo one another in Love. In the same way that Christ outdid his Church in his love for her, and she could respond in no other way than adoring love, seek each day to outdo one another in love, especially on days where the other doesn't act in a way that seems to deserve it, and you will be left with no choice but to have a marriage that grows deeper and deeper in love all the days of your life.

That it is my hope and prayer for the two of you, that you will truly love one another in this way. Love is more than a desire, it's more than an emotion, it's a choice by each individual. I hope you'll make that choice so that your love will grow over the many long years of your life together.

Vows (here bride and groom can either read their pre-written vows, have you call/response their pre-written vows, or go with standard traditional vows)

So, groom's name and bride's name, since you've seen the definition of marriage and your roles within it, and you desire to enter into this covenant relationship, will you please face each other and join hands.


Groom's name, will you repeat after me…

………………
………………
………………
………………

Bride's name, will you repeat after me…

………………
………………
………………
………………

Exchange of Rings

May I have the rings (best man/maid of honor)?

A lot of things have been said about the rings in wedding ceremonies. But they all really boil down to one thing. They are symbols. When the world looks at your rings, they'll know you have a covenant with each other.

When you look at your rings, they'll be a reminder of what we did here today. They are circles, which have no end…and they symbolize the promises you just made and the reality that you have committed yourselves to one another for life.

With that in mind, Groom's name, will you take this ring, place it on bride's name's finger and repeat after me…

Bride's name,
With this ring
I pledge my love to you
And I seal my promise
To be your faithful and loving husband
As God and these people are my witnesses

Bride's name, will you take this ring, place it on groom's name's finger and repeat after me….

Groom's name,
With this ring
I pledge my love to you
And I seal my promise
To be your faithful and loving wife
As God and these people are my witnesses


Prayer: Please bow your heads with me as we thank God for this moment.

We are thankful that you have provided this time for us to rejoice with Groom's name and Bride's name, to celebrate with them, to dance with them and to laugh with them. Father, we ask that you bless their lives together and make them aware of Your presence with them each moment. We ask that you give them the strength to walk together in true love, and that they will show one another the love, joy, peace, and patience found in that all the days of their lives. Thank you so much for allowing us to be witnesses this day to Your Will at work. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.


Declaration of Marriage

Groom's name and bride's name, since you have committed yourselves to a lifelong love, before God and these witnesses, since you have agreed to serve one another as long as you both shall live, and made your intentions public, acting in authority vested in me by Jesus Christ and His church as a minister of the Gospel and by the laws of the state of California, I now pronounce you husband and wife. What God has joined together, let no man separate.

The Benediction

Groom's name and Bride's name…May the Lord bless you and keep you. May the Lord make His face shine upon you and be gracious to you. May the Lord lift up His countenance upon you and give you peace, both now and forevermore. Amen.

Bride's name, you may kiss your husband.

(They turn, face audience and stand in place)

Dear family and friends, it is my honor to introduce to you, for the very first time, Groom's name and Bride's name (with new last name).

The Recessional

Bride and Groom
Groomsmen and Bridesmaids
Brides's parents
Groom's parents


Conclusion of ceremony.

On behalf of the groom's family and the bride's family, I would like to thank you for your attendance here this evening and sharing in the celebration of this marriage. You are invited to join them for the reception… After a brief photography session, the bride and groom will join you. Thank you again for your attendance here this evening.

I think you are thinking too much of this. You could always go this route:

1) Convince your friends to get married beside a lake.

2) Rent a pretty boat.

3) Proclaim your self "Captain" of the pretty boat.

4) As captain, marry your friends on the Loooooovvee Boat.

5) Profit.

(Bonus points if you wear a patch over an eye or work in the word "Matey"

Thank you BGAg. Will memorize this. Hope they don't mind me talking about a hunting trip they didn't go on.

But seriously, thanks. This is gold.

Just a follow up, I went through with getting ordained online through the group BlackGoldAg recommended. The United National Ministries statement of faith is more thought out than a lot of nondenominational churches websites I've seen over the years. (That's not saying much). Was way easier to sign up there then use a UU church.

I'm glad I did it, it was a great experience. Will forever be a great memory. It was on the grooms parents land. 20 people were there. Shut the whole town down. Joke was who is manning the liquor store with all of you folks here.

I got to spend a few hours the day of having serious conversations with my buddy and his wife about Jesus, marriage, covenants, family leadership through a priesthood mindset, and understanding the 'or worse' part of the vows. Also got to follow up that evening with more conversations about religion, but these were less than sober accounts. His wife was raised Jewish but is non religious currently. Was fun getting to hear her viewpoints and go toe to toe with her through the Old Testament. I would like to thank Exploring my Strange Bible, BibleProject, The Whole Counsel of God, Lord of the Spirits, The Faith of the Apostles, and Judiasms And Their Messiahs as great learning tools these last few years. And also you jokers on here.

Thanks everyone for their input. Y'all are free to call me by newly acquired title, Minister Meen Ag. (Or One Minister Ag). I would appreciate it if y'all would do a quick prayer for their marriage as well.

Will come do your wedding for beer and plates of food. I even do second marriages.

one MEENister Ag

Dang, how did I miss that one.

Good one.

Glad to hear it turned out great for the couple. Thx for the follow up!

one MEEN Ag said:

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Just a follow up, I went through with getting ordained online through the group BlackGoldAg recommended. The United National Ministries statement of faith is more thought out than a lot of nondenominational churches websites I've seen over the years. (That's not saying much). Was way easier to sign up there then use a UU church.

I'm glad I did it, it was a great experience. Will forever be a great memory. It was on the grooms parents land. 20 people were there. Shut the whole town down. Joke was who is manning the liquor store with all of you folks here.

I got to spend a few hours the day of having serious conversations with my buddy and his wife about Jesus, marriage, covenants, family leadership through a priesthood mindset, and understanding the 'or worse' part of the vows. Also got to follow up that evening with more conversations about religion, but these were less than sober accounts. His wife was raised Jewish but is non religious currently. Was fun getting to hear her viewpoints and go toe to toe with her through the Old Testament. I would like to thank Exploring my Strange Bible, BibleProject, The Whole Counsel of God, Lord of the Spirits, The Faith of the Apostles, and Judiasms And Their Messiahs as great learning tools these last few years. And also you jokers on here.

Thanks everyone for their input. Y'all are free to call me by newly acquired title, Minister Meen Ag. (Or One Minister Ag). I would appreciate it if y'all would do a quick prayer for their marriage as well.

Will come do your wedding for beer and plates of food. I even do second marriages.

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Do you mean, like, bigamy???

DizzyStarship said:

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schmendeler said:

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Perhaps this is a place where religion is a hindrance to good rather than a boost.

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Y'all do realize that the religious view most people have in fact is not just about two people living happily ever after like described and that's why the discussion is here. It is a union between God a man and a Woman.

What y'all seems to want to refer to as Marriage is a legal description of a civil union and while most religious do agree there is nothing wrong with that. They in fact are not the same.