Duncan Idaho said:
He offered his daughters for rape. That is his single defining action. Nothing else comes close.
If I called Mao a righteous man, would you say "I mean sure, let's set aside the murder and starvation"
swimmerbabe11 said:
I've never read it in a way that he was just like "here these are the party favors for the evening! Have fun!" but rather as a desperate man trying to keep peace. I'm not saying it was a good thing, but it certainly wasn't equal to offering people an appetizer or something.
Still, this is a bit of an aside. The most scandalous thing about the OP's premise isn't that it threatens one specific sort of sin or sinner, but that it completely misses the point of the Gospel.
Do you think the Lord, who humiliated himself, born in a manger, barefoot as a carpenter, was so dainty and delicate and NAIVE that one certain type of sin would offend his senses where Earth would be too much? He came to bear the weight of all of those sins and mine and yours and all of 4chan...be spit on, crucified, descend into Hell, and resurrect.
The world didn't somehow gouge itself of a certain sin to make itself more "worthy". If we could make ourselves worthy of Christ, we wouldn't have needed the incarnation at all.
swimmerbabe11 said:
Because this point of view is absolutely ludicrous and laughs in the face of the purpose of Christ.
It's insulting to Christ.
What makes the Earth more worthy of Him besides His own sacrifice?
swimmerbabe11 said:
Because this point of view is absolutely ludicrous and laughs in the face of the purpose of Christ.
It's insulting to Christ.
What makes the Earth more worthy of Him besides His own sacrifice?
Fashionably Late said:swimmerbabe11 said:
Because this point of view is absolutely ludicrous and laughs in the face of the purpose of Christ.
It's insulting to Christ.
What makes the Earth more worthy of Him besides His own sacrifice?
The purpose of Christ is to repair the rift caused by disobedience of Adam and Eve.
Somebody check the temperature in hell I may agree with Sapper for once.Sapper Redux said:swimmerbabe11 said:
Because this point of view is absolutely ludicrous and laughs in the face of the purpose of Christ.
It's insulting to Christ.
What makes the Earth more worthy of Him besides His own sacrifice?
I read the entire sermon he supposedly gave. It includes animals talking, 3 suns, a temple in Rome collapsing (for which there is no evidence), and every idol in Egypt simultaneously and spontaneously destroying themselves. I'd say the good saint makes a poor historian.
swimmerbabe11 said:Fashionably Late said:swimmerbabe11 said:
Because this point of view is absolutely ludicrous and laughs in the face of the purpose of Christ.
It's insulting to Christ.
What makes the Earth more worthy of Him besides His own sacrifice?
The purpose of Christ is to repair the rift caused by disobedience of Adam and Eve.
And Christ repairs the rift caused by the disobedience of Adam and Eve by doing what?
Are you 100% that St. Bonaventure even said this sermon? I am not, I truly find it dubious.Fashionably Late said:
Certainly, but it is not appropriate to disregard their statements outright. Their status gives weigh to their words and should not be immediately discarded.
jrico2727 said:Are you 100% that St. Bonaventure even said this sermon? I am not, I truly find it dubious.Fashionably Late said:
Certainly, but it is not appropriate to disregard their statements outright. Their status gives weigh to their words and should not be immediately discarded.
There are a lot of people that will tell you that St. Francis of Assisi said to always preach the gospel and if necessary use words, and this is highly disputed.
swimmerbabe11 said:
And why was his sacrifice on the cross efficacious?
he reconciled our sins by bearing the weight of them, so why would there be some wierd miracle to kill a bunch of the people he came to save? He lived among sinners His entire life, this wouldn't do anything to make the world more "pure" or "worthy of Him" since we can't accomplish our own salvation by any means except through Him. It's the same point I've been making!
Agreed.jrico2727 said:Somebody check the temperature in hell I may agree with Sapper for once.Sapper Redux said:swimmerbabe11 said:
Because this point of view is absolutely ludicrous and laughs in the face of the purpose of Christ.
It's insulting to Christ.
What makes the Earth more worthy of Him besides His own sacrifice?
I read the entire sermon he supposedly gave. It includes animals talking, 3 suns, a temple in Rome collapsing (for which there is no evidence), and every idol in Egypt simultaneously and spontaneously destroying themselves. I'd say the good saint makes a poor historian.
I have haven't been able to locate this sermon anywhere except that one website, and it is clear the person who runs it has a agenda. I haven't spent a lot of time on it either.
Rongagin71 said:Agreed.jrico2727 said:Somebody check the temperature in hell I may agree with Sapper for once.Sapper Redux said:swimmerbabe11 said:
Because this point of view is absolutely ludicrous and laughs in the face of the purpose of Christ.
It's insulting to Christ.
What makes the Earth more worthy of Him besides His own sacrifice?
I read the entire sermon he supposedly gave. It includes animals talking, 3 suns, a temple in Rome collapsing (for which there is no evidence), and every idol in Egypt simultaneously and spontaneously destroying themselves. I'd say the good saint makes a poor historian.
I have haven't been able to locate this sermon anywhere except that one website, and it is clear the person who runs it has a agenda. I haven't spent a lot of time on it either.
And to Zobel, don't you find an awful lot of violent and herd to believe stuff in the Old Testament? To me it makes sense to say that Christ brought a new law, a law for all, not just the Jews.
Okay, this is where my lack of expertise shows up as I am unable to list a bunch of Old Testament laws that no one now obeys, but I'll bet there are plenty. The OT certainly does tell quite a few cautionary tales.Zobel said:
A lot of the OT - most, actually - is a cautionary tale. The whole history of Israel can be read correctly as a cautionary tale. If you're not disturbed by what you read there, you're doing it wrong.
But the NT doesn't contradict the OT. Christ doesn't cancel the Law. When He says "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." He wasn't being tricky.
Christ is the Lawgiver and the Judge. The gospel is the expansion of the kingship of Christ to not only that of Israel, but over all mankind.
I believe that is the best explanation that I've heard.Zobel said:
If you read the way the Apostles applied the scriptures in Acts, they took a very close reading. The parts of the Torah - specifically the holiness code in Leviticus - which were said to the sons of Israel applied only to Jews. The parts of the holiness code which applied to everyone living in the land (including aliens and foreigners) applied to everyone. These things are summed up as idolatry, sexual immorality, and the consumption of blood (which is kinda like dodge duck dip dive and dodge, because all of these are very much related to religious acts). In no way did this abrogate the Torah or its requirements. It applied it exactly as written.
The NT didn't relist the Torah because they took the Torah for granted. They didn't add to it, or take away from it, because that would go against the Torah.
Kind of like some modern day clergy.PabloSerna said:
One of my favorite passages in the life of Jesus was the woman caught in adultery.
It would seem that the scholars had Jesus trapped with THEIR understanding of scripture only to find out that Jesus had the true understanding - mercy and forgiveness.
