Get the Vax

116,532 Views | 784 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by dermdoc
Macarthur
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Yes, I would agree that being 100% "not exposed" should not have been the goal but are trying to say that all the measures we took had no impact on infection rates and outcomes?

Can you find an instance when Fauchi or any public official said the goal was was "zero exposure"?
dermdoc
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AG
Macarthur said:

Yes, I would agree that being 100% "not exposed" should not have been the goal but are trying to say that all the measures we took had no impact on infection rates and outcomes?

Can you find an instance when Fauchi or any public official said the goal was was "zero exposure"?

Any measures we took just delayed the inevitable. And Fauci, of all people knew that. Of course he didn't say "zero exposure". That would have been idiotic.
He played the crowd and knew exactly what he was doing. He knew none of the measures he proposed would work but people don't want to hear, especially from the government, that there is no way not to be expose to Covid. Do you think Fauci was transparent on how the virus originated and spread? I don't. But I am a dad gum right wing nut.
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dermdoc
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AG
And in defense of non medical folks, people know little about any of this and can be easily manipulated. Despicable behavior by a doctor in that position in my opinion. Diseases should not be politicized. Started with HIV.
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Macarthur
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The inevitable what?

I'm still having a difficult time understanding exactly what you are so upset about. I've done quite a bit of reading the last two days to try and wrap my head around where you might be coming from but everything I read says the scientific community is in 100% agreement that the measures we took did influence infection rates and outcomes. It's a fact.

Now, certainly arguments can be made about them being as effective as the experts claimed they would be. And I guess you can argue that ultimately they weren't worth it, which I still have a hard time with.

What is your alternative? Do nothing and just see where the chips fell?
dermdoc
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AG
Macarthur said:

The inevitable what?

I'm still having a difficult time understanding exactly what you are so upset about. I've done quite a bit of reading the last two days to try and wrap my head around where you might be coming from but everything I read says the scientific community is in 100% agreement that the measures we took did influence infection rates and outcomes. It's a fact.

Now, certainly arguments can be made about them being as effective as the experts claimed they would be. And I guess you can argue that ultimately they weren't worth it, which I still have a hard time with.

What is your alternative? Do nothing and just see where the chips fell?

I am not upset. Just disappointed docs acted like this with the public trust. I just know quite a bit about respiratory virus spread. There will be 100% exposure. And that is where I believe our disconnect is. I guess you can delay getting Covid exposure but it will happen. And social distancing and masks have no effect on disease outcomes. They might delay exposure but once you are exposed (and you will be) the outcome will be the outcome.
Closing schools was incredibly short sighted.
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dermdoc
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AG
A reasonable approach to me would have been to isolate the elderly, immunocompromised, etc. until the virus mutated to a less virulent form. Which respiratory viruses always do.
You want to keep schools and healthy people working so that we get herd immunity and the virus mutates. That makes medical sense.
And when I posted this on forums here I got reamed by medical "experts". Got nasty pms, etc. Was accused of saying Covid was a nothing burger and more. Most people don't want to hear truth. They want to hear what they believe. Very hard for non medical people to understand how respiratory viruses work. And that is perfectly understandable. Doc's have a responsibility though to tell the truth in my opinion. Not what people want to hear.
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Macarthur
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Your 'delay doesn't matter, the outcome will be the outcome' seems to forget some important aspects, IMO.

- Hospital capacity - If everyone gets exposure at once, ICUs overflow and mortality spikes for everyone needing care, not just covid. Delaying exposure litterally saved lives by flattening that peak. I really don't think this is an opinion.

- Treatment/vaccine timing - Someone infected in Jan 2020 had none of the treatments or vaccines available as opposed to someone infected in 2022. "when" you got exposed very much changed your odds of severity.

- Variant timing - You also seem to contradict yourself by saying the variant always mutates to being milder - which by that logic, delaying exposure means you might catch a less dangerous variant. That seems to be arguing both sides.


Your point about just 'isolate the elderly/immunocompromised...let everyone else go for herd immunity' starts to swerve into my area of expertise and I think it's flawed.

- It is practically impossible - As someone running a retirement community, I have staff that take care of residents, cook their meals, clean their apartments. Once those folks leave work, no matter how much we try to educated them on taking precautions, we have no control over what they do outside of work. They then come into our community and expose the residents to the outside world.

- Some of the worst when it came to compliance with our protocols were family. You would think, they would be the most sensitive to protecting their elderly family and other residents, but many were Not only non compliant or nonchalant, but some were outright combative.

Bottom line is that the 'you'll get it eventually' mentality as some sort of proof that timing and mitigation don't matter just completely ignores the fact that the avilability of treatment, vaccine and timing of the variants very much played a factor is how severely you got covid.
dermdoc
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AG
So you agree everyone was/will be exposed to the Covid virus? No matter what precautions were taken? If you don't get that, everything else is meaningless. I mean, that is truth. The question is can you delay Covid exposure until there are more available treatments.
Maybe which is why I said it was reasonable to isolate the elderly (like me even though I never stopped seeing patients) and vulnerable like immunocompromised people.
As zi said, our disconnect is I don't believe you really believe that there is no way to avoid Covid (or any respiratory spread virus). It is impossible.
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dermdoc
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AG
So are you saying respiratory spread viruses don't always mutate to a less virulent strain?
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Macarthur
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dermdoc said:

So are you saying respiratory spread viruses don't always mutate to a less virulent strain?
based on everything I'm seeing online, no, not always.
dermdoc
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AG
Macarthur said:

dermdoc said:

So are you saying respiratory spread viruses don't always mutate to a less virulent strain?

based on everything I'm seeing online, no, not always.

It is who you believe.
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dermdoc
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AG
And I want to say I respect you. Disagree with your politics but admire your integrity.
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Macarthur
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dermdoc said:

And I want to say I respect you. Disagree with your politics but admire your integrity.


Same here, Doc.
ramblin_ag02
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AG
Quote:

I wish ramblinag would have been in charge instead of Fauci.

There is not enough money in the world. Don't put that evil on me
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dermdoc
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AG
ramblin_ag02 said:

Quote:

I wish ramblinag would have been in charge instead of Fauci.

There is not enough money in the world. Don't put that evil on me

I believe to get to Fauci's position you have to sell your soul to multiple entities. No thanks.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
 
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