If our society is leaving those behind then what should our beliefs and goals look like?

Similar to now, but with more personal responsibility and less irrational rejection of LGBT folks. Less nosy-ness in general.

We'll probably need to come up with other mechanisms to incentivize charity.

Dilettante said:

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Similar to now, but with more personal responsibility and less irrational rejection of LGBT folks.

We'll probably need to come up with other mechanisms to incentivize charity.

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What do you do about children?

AGC said:

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Dilettante said:

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Similar to now, but with more personal responsibility and less irrational rejection of LGBT folks.

We'll probably need to come up with other mechanisms to incentivize charity.

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What do you do about children?

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Raise them.

Orthodox Texan said:

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If our society is leaving those behind then what should our beliefs and goals look like?

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I think Utilitarianism is the most popular.

Dilettante said:

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It's honestly pretty easy once you get past the sleep deprivation. Support their head, feed them at regular intervals, make sure they stay hygienic, and ensure they stay away from dangerous stuff i.e. don't be stupid.

dargscisyhp said:

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Dilettante said:

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It's honestly pretty easy once you get past the sleep deprivation. Support their head, feed them at regular intervals, make sure they stay hygienic, and ensure they stay away from dangerous stuff i.e. don't be stupid.

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Theoretically. But whose are they? The NYT daily today discussed childcare as a public good. We have people in the department of Ed and a Virginia gubernatorial candidate saying parents shouldn't have a say in their kids' education.

The other question is why have them? In secular western societies people don't generally want them but don't think about who will pay their pensions or work in an economy to serve them as they age. There's not really a cohesive moral argument beyond that. But you may have one. So I'm curious what is the moral framework around children and child-rearing?

Care homes, 80 years from now, with wards full of people attended to by affectionately programmed robots is one of those dystopian images that springs to mind.

I do wonder what "Christian assumptions" you think we're leaving behind because I can't think of any uniquely Christian ideals that I am particularly worried about losing as a society. While I won't deny that Christianity was a key part of the development of modern western culture it certainly wasn't the only influence. Culture is always changing and so many vastly different cultures have been majority Christian that it's basically impossible to nail down what Christian culture is in the first place. There's little consistency between so-called Christian cultures over the past two millennia.

Every culture builds on what came before it. Ours will be no different.

It's hard to get too far into this subject without it turning explicitly political, which I'd rather not do here. That being said, I'd prefer to live in a society that placed a high value on empathy and understanding.

AGC said:

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dargscisyhp said:

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Dilettante said:

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It's honestly pretty easy once you get past the sleep deprivation. Support their head, feed them at regular intervals, make sure they stay hygienic, and ensure they stay away from dangerous stuff i.e. don't be stupid.

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Theoretically. But whose are they? The NYT daily today discussed childcare as a public good. We have people in the department of Ed and a Virginia gubernatorial candidate saying parents shouldn't have a say in their kids' education.

The other question is why have them? In secular western societies people don't generally want them but don't think about who will pay their pensions or work in an economy to serve them as they age. There's not really a cohesive moral argument beyond that. But you may have one. So I'm curious what is the moral framework around children and child-rearing?

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I had kids because I wanted them, not because I felt some sort of societal pressure or obligation.

People would have kids for the same reasons they do now, minus any religious ones. But I don't think religion plays into that decision for most.

chimpanzee said:

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Care homes, 80 years from now, with wards full of people attended to by affectionately programmed robots is one of those dystopian images that springs to mind.

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Affectionately programmed robots with a few well qualified nurses seems better than minimum wage folks who don't know how to be caretakers, don't want to be there, and burn out every 3 months. This isn't dystopian for any reason other than that it involves robots. If the people are lonely, have them talk to each other.

Dilettante said:

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chimpanzee said:

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Care homes, 80 years from now, with wards full of people attended to by affectionately programmed robots is one of those dystopian images that springs to mind.

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Affectionately programmed robots with a few well qualified nurses seems better than minimum wage folks who don't know how to be caretakers, don't want to be there, and burn out every 3 months. This isn't dystopian for any reason other than that it involves robots. If the people are lonely, have them talk to each other.

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I don't disagree having seen the alternative recently first hand.

The dystopian part was part of a longer story in my head and/or the alternative (current reality) is yet worse now that you mention it.

Dilettante said:

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People would have kids for the same reasons they do now, minus any religious ones. But I don't think religion plays into that decision for most.

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Secular western culture doesn't have children, especially not enough to manufacture the robots that are taking care of everyone. It's playing itself out in Europe repeatedly. And Japan. Hence the question. Also hence the big difference between mainline and evangelical denominations (and breaks inside those too).

dargscisyhp said:

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AGC said:

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Dilettante said:

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Similar to now, but with more personal responsibility and less irrational rejection of LGBT folks.

We'll probably need to come up with other mechanisms to incentivize charity.

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What do you do about children?

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Raise them.

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ya good luck raising children who will be in indoctrinated into believing they can identify with whatever their inner self desires.

AGC said:

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Dilettante said:

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People would have kids for the same reasons they do now, minus any religious ones. But I don't think religion plays into that decision for most.

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Secular western culture doesn't have children, especially not enough to manufacture the robots that are taking care of everyone. It's playing itself out in Europe repeatedly. And Japan. Hence the question. Also hence the big difference between mainline and evangelical denominations (and breaks inside those too).

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Secular western culture isn't homogenous. Japan doesn't seem like a western culture. The US wouldn't become Europe without religion. The answer remains the same. I'm not sure why we're talking about manufacturing robots.

Orthodox Texan said:

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dargscisyhp said:

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AGC said:

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Dilettante said:

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Similar to now, but with more personal responsibility and less irrational rejection of LGBT folks.

We'll probably need to come up with other mechanisms to incentivize charity.

---

What do you do about children?

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Raise them.

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ya good luck raising children who will be in indoctrinated into believing they can identify with whatever their inner self desires.

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Thanks???

Orthodox Texan said:

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If our society is leaving those behind then what should our beliefs and goals look like?

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Christianity is the truth and will never disappear.

Orthodox Texan said:

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dargscisyhp said:

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AGC said:

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Dilettante said:

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Similar to now, but with more personal responsibility and less irrational rejection of LGBT folks.

We'll probably need to come up with other mechanisms to incentivize charity.

---

What do you do about children?

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Raise them.

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ya good luck raising children who will be in indoctrinated into believing they can identify with whatever their inner self desires.

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Yes, children are much healthier when they are full of self loathing.

Rocag said:

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I do wonder what "Christian assumptions" you think we're leaving behind because I can't think of any uniquely Christian ideals that I am particularly worried about losing as a society. While I won't deny that Christianity was a key part of the development of modern western culture it certainly wasn't the only influence. Culture is always changing and so many vastly different cultures have been majority Christian that it's basically impossible to nail down what Christian culture is in the first place. There's little consistency between so-called Christian cultures over the past two millennia.

Every culture builds on what came before it. Ours will be no different.

It's hard to get too far into this subject without it turning explicitly political, which I'd rather not do here. That being said, I'd prefer to live in a society that placed a high value on empathy and understanding.

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So it's a key part but you aren't worried about losing it? Interesting take. Also what does a society look like that places a high value on empathy and understanding? If your 10 year old son comes to you and says he identifies as a girl what move do you make? Do you have empathy and allow him to make changes?

Something 30% of the world believes isn't going to go away in the next few centuries. It may just get mitigated to the point where it's uncommon or not influential here. And even as its influence is reduced here, it may expand somewhere else like Africa or South America. Who knows. I do think it's on the decline in the US.

Dilettante said:

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I wouldn't say that something 30% of the world believes is going to go away in the next few centuries. It may just get mitigated to the point where it's uncommon or not influential here. And even as its influence is reduced here, it may expand somewhere else like Africa or South America. Who knows. I do think it's on the decline in the US.

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We will agree to disagree.

Sapper Redux said:

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Orthodox Texan said:

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dargscisyhp said:

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AGC said:

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Dilettante said:

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Similar to now, but with more personal responsibility and less irrational rejection of LGBT folks.

We'll probably need to come up with other mechanisms to incentivize charity.

---

What do you do about children?

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Raise them.

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ya good luck raising children who will be in indoctrinated into believing they can identify with whatever their inner self desires.

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Yes, children are much healthier when they are full of self loathing.

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Oh so do you always say yes? Where do you say no and why?

This seems like a separate question from the thread topic.

Orthodox Texan said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Orthodox Texan said:

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dargscisyhp said:

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AGC said:

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Dilettante said:

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Similar to now, but with more personal responsibility and less irrational rejection of LGBT folks.

We'll probably need to come up with other mechanisms to incentivize charity.

---

What do you do about children?

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Raise them.

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ya good luck raising children who will be in indoctrinated into believing they can identify with whatever their inner self desires.

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Yes, children are much healthier when they are full of self loathing.

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Oh so do you always say yes? Where do you say no and why?

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I don't force my child to deny who they are and pretend that forcing them to fit a norm they don't fit is healthy for them. Seems like you'd be happy if they deal with a lifetime of mental health problems so long as they don't appear "weird."

Sapper Redux said:

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Orthodox Texan said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Orthodox Texan said:

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dargscisyhp said:

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AGC said:

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Dilettante said:

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Similar to now, but with more personal responsibility and less irrational rejection of LGBT folks.

We'll probably need to come up with other mechanisms to incentivize charity.

---

What do you do about children?

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Raise them.

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ya good luck raising children who will be in indoctrinated into believing they can identify with whatever their inner self desires.

---

Yes, children are much healthier when they are full of self loathing.

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Oh so do you always say yes? Where do you say no and why?

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I don't force my child to deny who they are and pretend that forcing them to fit a norm they don't fit is healthy for them. Seems like you'd be happy if they deal with a lifetime of mental health problems so long as they don't appear "weird."

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What does that mean? "Deny who they are". Do you believe identity is solely based on an inner feeling? Such an odd view on things. Do you just always allow your child to do whatever they want based on how they feel at a particular moment?

Orthodox Texan said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Orthodox Texan said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Orthodox Texan said:

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dargscisyhp said:

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AGC said:

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Dilettante said:

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Similar to now, but with more personal responsibility and less irrational rejection of LGBT folks.

We'll probably need to come up with other mechanisms to incentivize charity.

---

What do you do about children?

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Raise them.

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ya good luck raising children who will be in indoctrinated into believing they can identify with whatever their inner self desires.

---

Yes, children are much healthier when they are full of self loathing.

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Oh so do you always say yes? Where do you say no and why?

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I don't force my child to deny who they are and pretend that forcing them to fit a norm they don't fit is healthy for them. Seems like you'd be happy if they deal with a lifetime of mental health problems so long as they don't appear "weird."

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What does that mean? "Deny who they are". Do you believe identity is solely based on an inner feeling? Such an odd view on things. Do you just always allow your child to do whatever they want based on how they feel at a particular moment?

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Agree. I do not get it. What if they identify as a thief. Or a murderer. Or a con man. Pretty slippery slope letting kids decide this stuff.

Did you try to answer your own questions? It's hard to believe you can't figure out what's different about the things you listed.

Dilettante said:

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Did you try to answer your own questions? It's hard to find to believe you can't figure out what's different about the things you listed.

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So it is only about sexual identity? He did not specify that. You start letting kids "identify" as to what they want it gets pretty scary. I know there a lot of things I identified with like binge drunk, sex pervert, non student, lazy and non worker, etc.

Where does it ends.

What if your kid identifies as a pedophile when he reaches puberty? Or these kids who identify as animals, lizards, or snakes?

Be who you want to be as long as you're not hurting others seems like a generally good guiding principle.

dermdoc said:

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What if your kid identifies as a pedophile when he reaches puberty? Or these kids who identify as animals, lizards, or snakes?

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I feel like nothing has changed for some people in the last 20 years. Consent is still a thing. I would encourage anyone who has those impulses to get help and not be attacked for trying to address those matters. We've had the kind of closed society the OP wants and it lead to all kinds of horrible outcomes for people who differed even slightly from the accepted norm.

dargscisyhp said:

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Be who you want to be as long as you're not hurting others seems like a generally good guiding principle.

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So if your kid identifies as a lizard, you are okay with them getting plastic surgery,mtattoos, etc. to try to become one?

I mean, it is not hurting anyone, correct?

Personally, I'd have them wait until they're older to get body modifications of any sort, but, yea, after 6 years if that's what makes her happy more power to her.

Edit: My eldest kid is just about 12, so when she's 18ish.