Since we're doing abortion again

18,813 Views | 491 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by one MEEN Ag
Macarthur
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RebelE Infantry said:

kurt vonnegut said:

Zobel said:

Jeremiah 32:35

Leveiticus 18:21

Leviticus 20:2

Deuteronomy 12:31

1 Kings 11:7

2 Kings 23:10



To my untrained eyes, these appear to be condemnations of child sacrifice. Could an argument be made that this is distinct from abortion?

I'm sure it's for another thread, but I've always been hesitant to assign OT morality to Christians. Atheists usually get slapped down for quoting OT in description of Christian morality. What is the correct line for me to walk in trying to understand Christian morality?

Does Jesus say anything about abortion?




No

Ha Ha....lol

Well, I guess this settles it. As Kurt said, there's some issues here, but I'm not able to address today.

I will say this...The God of the OT does not appear to value human life at all, regardless of age.
RebelE Infantry
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AG
Macarthur said:

RebelE Infantry said:

kurt vonnegut said:

Zobel said:

Jeremiah 32:35

Leveiticus 18:21

Leviticus 20:2

Deuteronomy 12:31

1 Kings 11:7

2 Kings 23:10



To my untrained eyes, these appear to be condemnations of child sacrifice. Could an argument be made that this is distinct from abortion?

I'm sure it's for another thread, but I've always been hesitant to assign OT morality to Christians. Atheists usually get slapped down for quoting OT in description of Christian morality. What is the correct line for me to walk in trying to understand Christian morality?

Does Jesus say anything about abortion?




No

Ha Ha....lol

Well, I guess this settles it. As Kurt said, there's some issues here, but I'm not able to address today.

I will say this...The God of the OT does not appear to value human life at all, regardless of age.


There is no "God of the OT" or "God of the NT"

Only God, 3 Persons of the Most Holy Trinity. Everliving and Immutable.
M1Buckeye
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Why are you so uncharitable?
M1Buckeye
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RebelE Infantry said:

Macarthur said:

RebelE Infantry said:

kurt vonnegut said:

Zobel said:

Jeremiah 32:35

Leveiticus 18:21

Leviticus 20:2

Deuteronomy 12:31

1 Kings 11:7

2 Kings 23:10



To my untrained eyes, these appear to be condemnations of child sacrifice. Could an argument be made that this is distinct from abortion?

I'm sure it's for another thread, but I've always been hesitant to assign OT morality to Christians. Atheists usually get slapped down for quoting OT in description of Christian morality. What is the correct line for me to walk in trying to understand Christian morality?

Does Jesus say anything about abortion?




No

Ha Ha....lol

Well, I guess this settles it. As Kurt said, there's some issues here, but I'm not able to address today.

I will say this...The God of the OT does not appear to value human life at all, regardless of age.


There is no "God of the OT" or "God of the NT"

Only God, 3 Persons of the Most Holy Trinity. Everliving and Immutable.


That reminds me. Terry Bowden once said "My father is a New Testament guy but, on Saturdays, he's Old Testament.
Johnny Danger
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AG
Spyderman said:

Joe Boudain said:

Very saddening how such a thing as ripping a baby out of the place where it should feel the most love and safety in the world, and killing it, is a laughing matter to some.
Our species is far more barbaric and primitive than we would like to admit. Our country being chief regarding this matter.

Will someone have to apologize for what happened to the good people of Sodom and Gomorrah?

Could an event similar to that happen again?

These events happen all the time but disguised as "climate change"
Zobel
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AG
This is rich from the guy who implies others are atheists, un-Christian, and demon possessed because they disagree with him.

Look to your beam, brother.
M1Buckeye
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Zobel said:

This is rich from the guy who implies others are atheists, un-Christian, and demon possessed because they disagree with him.
That is not a fair nor accurate characterization at all.

I've noticed that you are quick to attack, mock, and ridicule others. You are an unkind person.
Zobel
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AG
You know nothing about me or how kind I am, friend. Again, look to your own beam.
M1Buckeye
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Zobel said:

You know nothing about me or how kind I am, friend. Again, look to your own beam.
I came here to share and to learn, to persuade and to be persuaded. I didn't come here to engage in petty, bitter, arguing. I'm going to put you on "ignore" so that I can get back to engaging in quality, friendly, discussion. Take care and God bless you.
Zobel
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AG
Cheers
Star Wars Memes Only
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Zobel said:

atheists, un-Christian, and demon possessed

My favorite state of being is all three at once.
Macarthur
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RebelE Infantry said:

Macarthur said:

RebelE Infantry said:

kurt vonnegut said:

Zobel said:

Jeremiah 32:35

Leveiticus 18:21

Leviticus 20:2

Deuteronomy 12:31

1 Kings 11:7

2 Kings 23:10



To my untrained eyes, these appear to be condemnations of child sacrifice. Could an argument be made that this is distinct from abortion?

I'm sure it's for another thread, but I've always been hesitant to assign OT morality to Christians. Atheists usually get slapped down for quoting OT in description of Christian morality. What is the correct line for me to walk in trying to understand Christian morality?

Does Jesus say anything about abortion?




No

Ha Ha....lol

Well, I guess this settles it. As Kurt said, there's some issues here, but I'm not able to address today.

I will say this...The God of the OT does not appear to value human life at all, regardless of age.


There is no "God of the OT" or "God of the NT"

Only God, 3 Persons of the Most Holy Trinity. Everliving and Immutable.


Actually, I agree. God has very little regard for human life. I'm still not sure why God thinks abortion is an abomination.
RebelE Infantry
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AG
Macarthur said:

RebelE Infantry said:

Macarthur said:

RebelE Infantry said:

kurt vonnegut said:

Zobel said:

Jeremiah 32:35

Leveiticus 18:21

Leviticus 20:2

Deuteronomy 12:31

1 Kings 11:7

2 Kings 23:10



To my untrained eyes, these appear to be condemnations of child sacrifice. Could an argument be made that this is distinct from abortion?

I'm sure it's for another thread, but I've always been hesitant to assign OT morality to Christians. Atheists usually get slapped down for quoting OT in description of Christian morality. What is the correct line for me to walk in trying to understand Christian morality?

Does Jesus say anything about abortion?




No

Ha Ha....lol

Well, I guess this settles it. As Kurt said, there's some issues here, but I'm not able to address today.

I will say this...The God of the OT does not appear to value human life at all, regardless of age.


There is no "God of the OT" or "God of the NT"

Only God, 3 Persons of the Most Holy Trinity. Everliving and Immutable.


Actually, I agree. God has very little regard for human life. I'm still not sure why God thinks abortion is an abomination.


This has to be a troll. There's no way you're this stupid.
Joe Boudain
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Macarthur said:

RebelE Infantry said:

Macarthur said:

RebelE Infantry said:

kurt vonnegut said:

Zobel said:

Jeremiah 32:35

Leveiticus 18:21

Leviticus 20:2

Deuteronomy 12:31

1 Kings 11:7

2 Kings 23:10



To my untrained eyes, these appear to be condemnations of child sacrifice. Could an argument be made that this is distinct from abortion?

I'm sure it's for another thread, but I've always been hesitant to assign OT morality to Christians. Atheists usually get slapped down for quoting OT in description of Christian morality. What is the correct line for me to walk in trying to understand Christian morality?

Does Jesus say anything about abortion?




No

Ha Ha....lol

Well, I guess this settles it. As Kurt said, there's some issues here, but I'm not able to address today.

I will say this...The God of the OT does not appear to value human life at all, regardless of age.


There is no "God of the OT" or "God of the NT"

Only God, 3 Persons of the Most Holy Trinity. Everliving and Immutable.


Actually, I agree. God has very little regard for human life. I'm still not sure why God thinks abortion is an abomination.


I mentioned earlier. Because it is murder.
Macarthur
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I disagree that it's murder, but even if I grant that, are you sure God isn't okay w murder?
Macarthur
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RebelE Infantry said:

Macarthur said:

RebelE Infantry said:

Macarthur said:

RebelE Infantry said:

kurt vonnegut said:

Zobel said:

Jeremiah 32:35

Leveiticus 18:21

Leviticus 20:2

Deuteronomy 12:31

1 Kings 11:7

2 Kings 23:10



To my untrained eyes, these appear to be condemnations of child sacrifice. Could an argument be made that this is distinct from abortion?

I'm sure it's for another thread, but I've always been hesitant to assign OT morality to Christians. Atheists usually get slapped down for quoting OT in description of Christian morality. What is the correct line for me to walk in trying to understand Christian morality?

Does Jesus say anything about abortion?




No

Ha Ha....lol

Well, I guess this settles it. As Kurt said, there's some issues here, but I'm not able to address today.

I will say this...The God of the OT does not appear to value human life at all, regardless of age.


There is no "God of the OT" or "God of the NT"

Only God, 3 Persons of the Most Holy Trinity. Everliving and Immutable.


Actually, I agree. God has very little regard for human life. I'm still not sure why God thinks abortion is an abomination.


This has to be a troll. There's no way you're this stupid.
Stupid? Really?
Joe Boudain
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Macarthur said:

I disagree that it's murder, but even if I grant that, are you God isn't okay w murder?


Yes. Please go ahead and counter with stories from the old Testament
Macarthur
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I was told the God of the OT and NT are the same.
Quad Dog
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AG
God turned a woman to salt for turning around. That seems like little regard for human life to me.
RebelE Infantry
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AG
>God gives commandment. "DO NOT DO THING"
>Person does that thing
>God punishes for breaking commandment
>wHy God nO hAvE rEgArd f0r hUmAn lIfE
Quad Dog
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AG
RebelE Infantry said:

>God gives commandment. "DO NOT DO THING"
>Person does that thing
>God punishes for breaking commandment
>wHy God nO hAvE rEgArd f0r hUmAn lIfE
So you admit (maturely) that God has little regard for human life if they don't do what he says, among other things.
Joe Boudain
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Macarthur said:

I was told the God of the OT and NT are the same.
You were told correctly, the stories of angry God are from the Old Testament, the fulfillment of the old testament is the Word of God, Jesus Christ.
Joe Boudain
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Quad Dog said:

God turned a woman to salt for turning around. That seems like little regard for human life to me.
It's not a good thing to disobey God, everytime someone disobeys God in the bible, disaster ensues.
Zobel
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AG
Quite the opposite. God has such high regard for humans that He is willing for them to die rather than become what they would with unrepentant sin.

And, further, such regard for His creations that the He was willing to become like them in every way to join them to Himself, not only to solve the negative aspects of sin and death through His own death, but to bestow on them the positive aspects of union with His divine nature.
M1Buckeye
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It seems to me that many people have little regard for God.
Quad Dog
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Zobel said:

Quite the opposite. God has such high regard for humans that He is willing for them to die rather than become what they would with unrepentant sin.

So God is willing to kill me if I make a bad decision? What happened to my free will? Someone holding an executioners axe above my neck waiting for a misstep doesn't seem like high regard for my life to me.

Quote:


And, further, such regard for His creations that the He was willing to become like them in every way to join them to Himself, not only to solve the negative aspects of sin and death through His own death, but to bestow on them the positive aspects of union with His divine nature.
Jesus was able to perform miracles and came back from the dead, so he wasn't like humans in every way. And even if what you claim is true, it doesn't change any of the killings perform by God before Jesus, it also doesn't change all of the killings allowed or performed by God since.

kurt vonnegut
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Zobel said:

What was the purpose of child sacrifice? Why did ancient people make offerings and seek communion with gods?

Why do women abort their children? The vast majority are for convenience by other names and rationalizations. Call it worship, call it service. It comes put the same.

Jesus is Yahweh. So, yes. Those quotes from the mouth of the Lord are Jesus speaking.

If a fetus is considered a child, then sure, it comes out the same. Motivation is irrelevant in that regard. I am asking whether those passages about child sacrifice are meant to extend to an unborn child. There appears to be terminology in Hebrew that refers to an unborn child, but I am not aware of whether or not it appears in the Bible. I could not find anywhere that it had.

And where does Jephthah's child sacrifice of his daughter at God's command following the defeat of the Ammonites play in? On the surface, this certainly seems relevant. No? I mean, as long as the child sacrifice isn't for Moloch. . . OG God seems cool with it.

I guess my point is this: If those are the 'best' passages to apply to an unborn child, they are not as clear as they could be. Yahweh condemns beastiality far more clearly and often than child sacrifice.
RebelE Infantry
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AG
The astonishing part is that in His mercy, he allows us to live after disobeying Him. He is our God, and we have the insolence to disobey Him.

God is both perfect mercy and perfect justice. We often forget about the justice part.
one MEEN Ag
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AG
larry culpepper said:

Joe Boudain said:

dargscisyhp said:

Homie, trust me, I find some of your views just as vile.


Which ones? As vile as killing babies?
I'll go ahead and start with the notion that we should force teenage rape victims to carry their babies to term and provide for it with zero government assistance, on minimum wage, all while being forced to deal with the trauma from it.
I've quoted this directly to you on previous abortion discussions and you hand waived it off. Maybe this time you'll listen to the podcast.

https://freakonomics.com/podcast/abortion

60% of all fetuses in NYC that see a doctor's appointment become aborted. An absolutely insane, indefensible number.
Zobel
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AG

Quote:

So God is willing to kill me if I make a bad decision? What happened to my free will? Someone holding an executioners axe above my neck waiting for a misstep doesn't seem like high regard for my life to me.
No, and making it out to be something trivial does a disservice to the discussion.

There are several things that are true here, as far as Christian understanding goes -

- God loves mankind, and each human in particular, and created them in His image and likeness
- God's will for mankind, and each human in particular, is that they one day become like Him
- The consequence of sin is ultimately the erasure of any likeness of God, and ultimately to become unhuman
- This is a fate worse than death
- God is unwilling that mankind should be destroyed in this way
- Therefore God intervenes, both on a macro story-arc level (Israel, the Incarnation, etc) and on an individual basis

As for your question, God is willing that you die rather than be utterly destroyed - or destroy others. Death is not utter destruction. I understand that if you are a pure materialist this is nonsense, but until you can contemplate that this is our faith, you won't begin to understand it even intellectually wither or not you believe it.

That being said, I believe even a materialist could conjure up a scenario where it may be kinder for someone to die than to continue living, and even call this compassion.

Quote:

Jesus was able to perform miracles and came back from the dead, so he wasn't like humans in every way. And even if what you claim is true, it doesn't change any of the killings perform by God before Jesus, it also doesn't change all of the killings allowed or performed by God since.
Quite the contrary, what Jesus is as a Man is what all mankind is to become by God's will. He is The Man, the prototypical human being, the New Adam. And this includes the supernatural aspects.

As death is not final, or irreversible, the "before" or "after" isn't really relevant.
kurt vonnegut
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AG
Zobel said:

Quite the opposite. God has such high regard for humans that He is willing for them to die rather than become what they would with unrepentant sin.

And, further, such regard for His creations that the He was willing to become like them in every way to join them to Himself, not only to solve the negative aspects of sin and death through His own death, but to bestow on them the positive aspects of union with His divine nature.

What does that say about free will? And why pick and choose which humans he would have die rather than let them become what they'll become. God decided to kill a loooooooooot of ancient peoples. . . . But not ****ing Hitler?

-------

God became like us in every way? Jesus was supposedly an immaculately conceived God-man, free from sin and impurity who could walk on water, heal the sick, raise the dead, and perform all manner of miracles. . . . I have to say, I'm not sure he was like us in every way.
kurt vonnegut
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RebelE Infantry said:

The astonishing part is that in His mercy, he allows us to live after disobeying Him. He is our God, and we have the insolence to disobey Him.

God is both perfect mercy and perfect justice. We often forget about the justice part.

Creating beings with free will and allowing them to exist even after not doing exactly as he commanded is not mercy. Its not being a total sociopath. Not torturing your own creation is an awfully low bar.

RebelE Infantry
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AG
Free will does not imply freedom from consequences.
Quad Dog
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Quote:

That being said, I believe even a materialist could conjure up a scenario where it may be kinder for someone to die than to continue living, and even call this compassion.
Been a while since we've had a euthanasia thread. After recently watched Alzheimer's take away an amazing grandmother completely, put me in the pro category.
Sapper Redux
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RebelE Infantry said:

The astonishing part is that in His mercy, he allows us to live after disobeying Him. He is our God, and we have the insolence to disobey Him.

God is both perfect mercy and perfect justice. We often forget about the justice part.


Some of you guys are really good at making God sound like a slaveowner.
 
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