Macarthur said:

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Macarthur said:

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I'm curious. Those on the right...these caravans and parades that have clogged up traffic (the NJ one comes to mind as particularly weird)

Do you see these as beneficial for Trumps re-election ?

Are they trying to persuade swing voters?

What exactly is the objective here?

If they are trying to persuade undecided voters, this seems particularly counter productive, to me.

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I am still genuinely curious if anyone on the right can shed some light on this?

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Zobel said:

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That's like me asking you if you think riots and looting are swaying independents for President Trump. Those aren't Republican voters. Between the two examples of political extremes - burning down or attacking federal buildings and shutting down highways - I'll take the latter.

I also think it's dumb and they shouldn't do it. It would annoy the hell out of me.

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Ah, so the old if I'm a business and want to discriminate, I should have the freedom to do so.

You're right. I disagree.

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a liberal society stands or falls by the distinction between the political, or the state, and society, or by the distinction between the public and the private. In the liberal society there is necessarily a private sphere with which the state's legislation must not interfere...Now, given this the necessary existence of such a private sphere the liberal society necessarily makes possible, permits, and even fosters what is called by many people "discrimination."

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The debate in which we are now engaged is over the assertion of a new right: the right of nonowners of property to appropriate it from the owners. The new right is asserted in the name of equality. Differently stated: this is a debate between those who seek to preserve freedom in the use of property by its owners and those who would appropriate a part of the bundle of rights which make up that ownership, without compensation, to the public, in the name of equality.

May I suggest that the proper goal for the Congress to seek is not a transfer of property rights, but freedom. We would all agree that the traveler is and should be free not to buy.

He can pass a motel because he doesn't like the town, he doesn't like the color, or he doesn't like the name. He can stop and go in and when he sees the owner he can decide he doesn't like him because he doesn't like his mustache, or his accent, or his prices, or his race, or his other customers. He can turn around and walk out for any reason, or for no reason at all. Why not? He's a free man. So is the owner of the property. And if the traveler is free not to buy because he doesn't like the owner's mustache, accent, prices, race, other customers, or for any or no reason, the owner of the property ought to have the same freedom.

That's simple justice. The wonder is that it can be questioned.

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Macarthur said:

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And one last point about the fabric of our nation, his attacks on the election process are incredibly damaging. We like to think our democracy is resilient, but I think that's wishfull thinking.

For him to say he won't accept results unless he wins. He never said this. Don't know what media outlet you watch...but he very clearly said in the second and last debate that he would accept the results of a fair election. There is only one side that has shown that they are unwilling to accept the results of an election and that is the left, with the fraudulent and illegal Mueller investigation, the ridiculous attempt at impeachment and obstruction of the president for his entire first term.....only one side has proven that they are u willing to accept the results of a fair election and it wasn't trump supporters. it was Hillary supporters and the left. so for YOU to accuse trump of something g he has never done and only his opponents have done is ludicrous and I don't mean the funny rapper. You have zero credibility on that front.. ZERO.Green lighting his knuckle draggers And here you show your bias by calling his supporters knuckle daggers. PATHETIC personal attacks against people you don't agree with. And you have the gall and the balls to call other people uncivil? Pot meet kettle, you hypocrite to be 'poll watchers'. Strategizing that he will simply declare himself the win early tomorrow and claim fraud as more votes are being counted is the antithesis of what our system is about. FACT: Judges have changed state state voting laws for this election. This is broad overreach. In these states where this has occurred only state legislatures should be allowed to do so via the passage of law. This is illegal. An election in which the integrity of the vote counts is called into question because the laws were illegally changed weeks before the election is by the very definition of fraud fraudulent. It undermines our election system and everyone should condemn it. If the rules were to be changed they should have been changed by state legislatures and gone through the proper process. Instead you have Obama and partisan judges taking on the role of state legislatures. This undermines the fabric of our democratically held elections.
You should want elections to be fair and for the votes to be verified. An illegal vote disenfranchises all legitimate voters and undermines our federal republic.

Not all, but many of his followers are cultists. No we aren't. There are many things trump has done that I do not support or agree withPlain and simple, and those of you that think there will be no lasting effects of this man's tenure are blind. You sir are a hypocrite of the highest order. And you are the people Jesus was talking to when he said get the beam out of your eye before you try to remove the splinter from someone else's

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Macarthur said:

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Zobel said:

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What's the left equivalent of the Lincoln project? Who's the left's McCain or Romney? Where are the Never-Biden-ers?

But at any rate I wasn't saying it was a uniquely left phenomenon. Both parties fall in line, which is why it's silly to say oh well that's the far left not the left.

If anything, Republicans aligning with President Trump should be viewed as a boon by those on the left. He's certainly not a right wing idealogue. I mean just two posts ago you've got a staunch Left wing guy saying his economic politics are basically the same as Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez, just populism. You should be cheering, not condemning.

More whatever President Trump is? So not right. More populist?

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In some regards, you are completely correct. The D's took the house in 18 and look like they are on the verge of taking the Senate and the WH and possibly gaining more seats in the house. Twitter world is even saying the Texas house may flip D.

So yes, he has been good for D's if this all comes to pass. Which makes it all the more strange that the R party has so sucked up to him. The republican party has not sucked up to him. You have senators like McCain, Flake, Romney who outright opposed trump. Romney even voted for one count of impeachment while the dems voted straight along party lines to impeach. McCain broke party ranks and scuttled the Obamacare recall that Trump pushed for. Republicans also worked WITH Dems to scuttle immigration reform which would have helped hundreds of thousands of DACA people get a path to citizenship. Your claim that the republican party has sucked up to Trump is simply not true on the very face of it, especially when for the entire i years of Obama's presidency the dems voted along straight party lines for all of his projects. He is setting the party up for historic losses. But that's nothing to be cheered. He's bad for America so I do not see that as a 'win for my team'. Record peace in the middle east including normalization of relations between Israel and many of its Arab neighbors which Trump spearheaded.
Stopping chemical weapons in Syria and stopping the Russians without putting American boots on the ground.
Moving US embassy to Jerusalem
Record unemployment for black Americans
Record number of Americans not having to rely on welfare
Increased initiatives overseas to halt the persecution of gays, lesbians, and Christians especially in Muslim and African countries.
Permanent funding for Historical Black Colleges
Initiatives for black Americans to revitalize and bring business back to run down black downtown areas.
Bringing back manufacturing to the US.
Destruction of ISIS.
More troops out of Afghanistan
Tax cuts that have overwhelmingly benefitted the middle class.
Getting record numbers of nonviolent drug offenders out of jail and back to their families...people who Biden and Kamala Harris put in prison.
Making it so that tax payer dollars no longer fund abortions in the US OR ABROAD.

Soooooo how has Trump's presidency been bad for America?

Because all of these^^^^^^ are good things.

And I laugh at me being a 'staunch left-wing guy'. While I did say Trump won because of his populist message, he has not governed that way. He lied because he knew that was a successful message.

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