Zobel said:

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I am not sure I understand your position just yet.

Do you think demonic possession is real?

Do you think blessing of things is real?

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Now, no.
Inanimate objects? No. People. Yes.

Oh yeah, I'm sure the hospitals go with "demon possessed" on their charts.

I will pray that you will never have to find out.

So when did demonic possession end? And why?

As for objects how do you read acts 19:11-12? Or Deut 28:5?

Or 2 Chron 29:4-6? Or Hebrews 9:21?

dargscisyhp said:

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HossAg said:

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Oh yeah, I'm sure the hospitals go with "demon possessed" on their charts.

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You can find the ICD-10 codes for paranormal encounters, released on April 1st, 2015, here:

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Zobel said:

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You didn't answer the question. There is a incongruity in your position. Can you rationalize it?

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Here's my point. There was a time and place for miracles and miraculous objects. It was a gift bestowed from God, through Christ, to his immediate followers in order to prove that he was the Messiah.

Anyone now professing to perform miracles, or to possess miraculous tokens as mentally ill, uneducated, or a flat out fraud. Period.

Again, let's see someone regrow a limb, raise the dead, immediately cure cancer, turn water into wine (not unprovable transubstantiation), walk on water, feed 5000, etc.

The inherit mystical nature perpetuated by the Catholic Church creates a predisposition for its adherents to find the miraculous in the rare and uncommon.

I don't ever hear of any Catholics believing the miracles performed by other religious groups. Who come it's only your team?

Countless miracles happen every year for Christians around the world. Countless prayers have been answered.

You seem to be applying a level of skepticism to miracles today that you do not apply to miracles recorded in the Bible.

Or, restated, you have:

• 100% faith in Christian miracles described nearly two millennia ago
• 0% faith in Christian miracles described today

I think Zobel's point is: How do you reconcile these two beliefs?

ramblin_ag02 said:

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Zobel said:

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The title is a joke in search of a punchline. Haven't been able to come up with it yet.

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Rosed are red
Willpower can falter
...

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ROFL!

You still didn't even try to answer the question. You said you believed in demon possession and that both Christ and others did real exorcisms.

Did demons stop possessing people?

(I'm not catholic)

Serious question for y'all:

Who is more at risk (their soul) with this defiling act?

a. The parishioners of Ss. Peter & Paul
b. Bishop Aymond
c. Jesus
d. The participants (Clark, Cheng, Dixon)

The 3 defilers very deliberately subjugated their will to evil, even if they are atheists. They quite literally invited demons into their lives.

A re-consecrated space is fundamentally different from that.

Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Zobel said:

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You didn't answer the question. There is a incongruity in your position. Can you rationalize it?

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Here's my point. There was a time and place for miracles and miraculous objects. It was a gift bestowed from God, through Christ, to his immediate followers in order to prove that he was the Messiah.

Anyone now professing to perform miracles, or to possess miraculous tokens as mentally ill, uneducated, or a flat out fraud. Period.

Again, let's see someone regrow a limb, raise the dead, immediately cure cancer, turn water into wine (not unprovable transubstantiation), walk on water, feed 5000, etc.

The inherit mystical nature perpetuated by the Catholic Church creates a predisposition for its adherents to find the miraculous in the rare and uncommon.

I don't ever hear of any Catholics believing the miracles performed by other religious groups. Who come it's only your team?

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.biography.com/.amp/news/mother-teresa-miracles-saint

Here's a small taste. There are many, many like this. Look at the miracles for those recently canonized, and you will find all sorts of stuff to at least give you pause on your current position

Redstone said:

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They quite literally invited demons into their lives.

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How did they invite demons into their lives? Is it just because of the sex, or is there something specific about BDSM, or is it the location of the sex that invites demons?

Serotonin said:

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Countless miracles happen every year for Christians around the world. Countless prayers have been answered.

You seem to be applying a level of skepticism to miracles today that you do not apply to miracles recorded in the Bible.

Or, restated, you have:

• 100% faith in Christian miracles described nearly two millennia ago
• 0% faith in Christian miracles described today

I think Zobel's point is: How do you reconcile these two beliefs?

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I literally just answers this above.

Subjugate the human will to lust in the context of a very deliberate desecration.

Ag4coal said:

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Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Zobel said:

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You didn't answer the question. There is a incongruity in your position. Can you rationalize it?

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Here's my point. There was a time and place for miracles and miraculous objects. It was a gift bestowed from God, through Christ, to his immediate followers in order to prove that he was the Messiah.

Anyone now professing to perform miracles, or to possess miraculous tokens as mentally ill, uneducated, or a flat out fraud. Period.

Again, let's see someone regrow a limb, raise the dead, immediately cure cancer, turn water into wine (not unprovable transubstantiation), walk on water, feed 5000, etc.

The inherit mystical nature perpetuated by the Catholic Church creates a predisposition for its adherents to find the miraculous in the rare and uncommon.

I don't ever hear of any Catholics believing the miracles performed by other religious groups. Who come it's only your team?

---

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.biography.com/.amp/news/mother-teresa-miracles-saint

Here's a small taste. There are many, many like this. Look at the miracles for those recently canonized, and you will find all sorts of stuff to at least give you pause on your current position

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If the woman in the story's cancer is the shining example that got St Teresa to be beatified then the process to verify a miracle is even more laughable than I thought it was.

" It should be noted that some doctors have disputed the inexplicable nature of Besra's recovery, saying she could have been cured by the medicine she'd been taking. However, apparently, medication could not have caused the mass to go away as quickly as it did."

So doctors gave the woman medicine, she prayed, and got well faster than intended. That does truly sound like a miracle. Give me a break. Walk on water, grow a limb, raise the dead. You know, perform a miracle, not find an uncommon occurrence.

This is so dumb. I remember when Mother Teresa died. The call to give her sainthood was immediate and extremely loud. As if, the Pope saying yup she's in heaven, gives any credence to whether she's actually in heaven. If you can't see that the second she died they were going to find something "Miraculous" to justify her sainthood you're the ultimate goal tender.

It's transparent.

Redstone said:

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Subjugate the human will to lust in the context of a very deliberate desecration.

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So just to be clear, if this wasn't done in a church then demons would not be invited?

Your prerogative. You're obviously cherry picking, like not addressing the second miracle, but that's fine. There are many, many, many examples. Read them however you want, but read them. There are massive amounts of these stories that aren't possible to explain with modern medicine. If you think Jesus and the apostles came and performed miracles, then it all went away, feel free. But it feels like you are radically limiting God's power because you haven't been able to personally witness it.

That's a significant time commitment, which I don't really want to make. Could you distill it down some?

Specifically, what are demons, what do you mean by inviting demons into their lives, and what did the priest/dominatrices do to extend this invitation? Is it the sex act itself, the specifics to this sex act (BDSM), the place where it took place, or something else altogether?

(On an unrelated note, I find it somewhat amusing that one of the dominatrices calls herself a "Satanatrix," whatever that means.)

And I have a hard time understanding believing in good supernatural(God) and not believing in bad supernatural(Satan and demons).

Forget the terms miracles and whatnot.

You said you believed that demons possessed people, and that Jesus Christ and others performed exorcisms that were not magic or witchcraft.

Did demons stop possessing people? Or do you believe they ever did?

dar,

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Specifically, what are demons,

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Fallen angels. They retain their faculties and hierarchy. For example, an angel whose job was to encourage chastity now encourages lust. Christ continues to punish them when those they torment turn to prayers of deliverance, and this suffering can be a means of salvation (after, of course, this massive wake-up call of possession, "perfect" possession, or harassment).

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what do you mean by inviting demons into their lives,

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An invitation. This can happen in many ways - including playing around with a board. It is a portal, an opening. Sometimes, however, a harassment could be allowed to demonstrate the glory of God. Exorcists have detailed several ways, the most frightening of course being a deliberate Luciferian ceremony of invitation (like much else in Luciferianism, this is a mockery, in this case of prayer).

Quote:

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and what did the priest/dominatrices do to extend this invitation?

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Acts of desecration. Remember what a Catholic altar is.

Quote:

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Is it the sex act itself,

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Partly. Remember that sex can be a gift from God in context. The point is intention. 1

Thank you for indulging me.

If I may, a few more questions.

Does any sex outside of a marriage invite demons into your life, since it's (I imagine) a desecration of one's body? Are there physical consequences to having invited demons into your life, or is it purely spiritual?

Outsider question:
If you blame devious sexual acts like this and other worse ones performed by priests on demons and devils, does that absolve humans of their own actions and free will? Can you even solve a problem caused by demons and prevent it from happening again?


What I'm thinking is that if you are so focused on blaming demons that you can't even approach the real problem and real solutions that could prevent it from happening. I'd think that improving and changing how priests are selected, trained, overseen, observed, and investigated would have a more tangible reduction in these kind of acts than blaming demons and doing nothing else.