Modern Day Idolatry

6,369 Views | 85 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by dermdoc
PacifistAg
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to UTExan • 2:57p, 8/28/20
AG
UTExan said:
PacifistAg said:
craigernaught said:
dermdoc said:
These are the same folks who want to "convert" Orthodox Christians on their mission trips.

I met a crazy pastor in Petra who bought me lunch, gave me $100 for some reason, and tried to convince me that the priests at the Church of the Nativity were just actors as part of a Palestinian plot to trick western Christians into opposing the Israelis.

Sigh...so many western Christians can't comprehend that there's a robust Church in Palestine. From what I saw, Palestinians were far friendlier to Christianity than Israelis. The western Church is broken.

Really? The violent founder of the terrorist PFLP George Habash was certainly a "Christian" of that ilk whose actions certainly were far more destructive than Jeffress' mere comments.
Wait, so one person was bad means there isn't a robust Church in Palestine? Or that the Palestinians I encountered were far friendlier to Christianity than Israelis, including the Israeli woman who assaulted me for having the audacity to escort children to school? Nothing you said here invalidates anything I said. It's really more just a deflection than anything.

And I would argue Jeffress is far more dangerous because he leads 10,000+ down towards the false god of nationalism draped in Christianese every week.
Reply Quote
3
1 edit
PacifistAg
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to ramblin_ag02 • 2:58p, 8/28/20
AG

Quote:
Lots of evangelicals just talk this way.
I think that's a major problem though. The guy removed Christ as the central focus of the verses he quoted, and replaced it with America. I agree that lots of evangelicals talk like this. I just think that that's a major problem that they do so.
Reply Quote
3
dermdoc
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
3:34p, 8/28/20
AG
Maybe it is just me but modern day Christians seem to always want to claim idolatry and persecution.

As Lewis stated above, one can make an idol of pacifism as easy as nationalism.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Reply Quote
3
ramblin_ag02
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to PacifistAg • 3:49p, 8/28/20
AG
PacifistAg said:

Quote:
Lots of evangelicals just talk this way.
I think that's a major problem though. The guy removed Christ as the central focus of the verses he quoted, and replaced it with America. I agree that lots of evangelicals talk like this. I just think that that's a major problem that they do so.


Right, but I've seen the same sort of thing with bake sales, sports teams and school fundraisers. Just because the Bible says "endure to the end" doesn't mean we can never use those words again except to quote the Bible. Just like "pearls before swine" doesn't have to specifically refer to the Gospel and hardened hearts. It applies in a lot of situations. Good Samaritans aren't actual Samaritans.

I just think our entire culture is steeped in Christian and Biblical imagery, and you're going to be offended constantly if you expect every Christian reference to be 100% spiritual
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Reply Quote
2
dermdoc
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to ramblin_ag02 • 3:51p, 8/28/20
AG
Agree. I do not think there is any evil intent, ill will, or idolatry in anything Pence said. But that is just me and I respect deeply Pacifist's views.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Reply Quote
UTExan
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to PacifistAg • 4:04p, 8/28/20
PacifistAg said:
UTExan said:
PacifistAg said:
craigernaught said:
dermdoc said:
These are the same folks who want to "convert" Orthodox Christians on their mission trips.

I met a crazy pastor in Petra who bought me lunch, gave me $100 for some reason, and tried to convince me that the priests at the Church of the Nativity were just actors as part of a Palestinian plot to trick western Christians into opposing the Israelis.

Sigh...so many western Christians can't comprehend that there's a robust Church in Palestine. From what I saw, Palestinians were far friendlier to Christianity than Israelis. The western Church is broken.

Really? The violent founder of the terrorist PFLP George Habash was certainly a "Christian" of that ilk whose actions certainly were far more destructive than Jeffress' mere comments.
Wait, so one person was bad means there isn't a robust Church in Palestine? Or that the Palestinians I encountered were far friendlier to Christianity than Israelis, including the Israeli woman who assaulted me for having the audacity to escort children to school? Nothing you said here invalidates anything I said. It's really more just a deflection than anything.

And I would argue Jeffress is far more dangerous because he leads 10,000+ down towards the false god of nationalism draped in Christianese every week.


Then God will require him to answer for it. But don't presume you have God's omnipotent wisdom. When in Israel, follow their customs and rules.
It is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness- Sir Terence Pratchett
“ III stooges si viveret et nos omnes ad quos etiam probabile est mittent custard pies”
Reply Quote
1
diehard03
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
4:26p, 8/28/20
Quote:
Right, but I've seen the same sort of thing with bake sales, sports teams and school fundraisers. Just because the Bible says "endure to the end" doesn't mean we can never use those words again except to quote the Bible. Just like "pearls before swine" doesn't have to specifically refer to the Gospel and hardened hearts. It applies in a lot of situations. Good Samaritans aren't actual Samaritans.

I just think our entire culture is steeped in Christian and Biblical imagery, and you're going to be offended constantly if you expect every Christian reference to be 100% spiritual

I don't know, man. I am literally the guy you are talking about in terms of using biblical language in my vernacular and yet I still find his speech horrific.

He's not ordering tea the at the diner. He's giving a speech at his party's convention to rally his base. And it's really clear what he's doing - using this language pander to the evangelical vote.
Reply Quote
5
PacifistAg
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to UTExan • 4:28p, 8/28/20
AG
UTExan said:
PacifistAg said:
UTExan said:
PacifistAg said:
craigernaught said:
dermdoc said:
These are the same folks who want to "convert" Orthodox Christians on their mission trips.

I met a crazy pastor in Petra who bought me lunch, gave me $100 for some reason, and tried to convince me that the priests at the Church of the Nativity were just actors as part of a Palestinian plot to trick western Christians into opposing the Israelis.

Sigh...so many western Christians can't comprehend that there's a robust Church in Palestine. From what I saw, Palestinians were far friendlier to Christianity than Israelis. The western Church is broken.

Really? The violent founder of the terrorist PFLP George Habash was certainly a "Christian" of that ilk whose actions certainly were far more destructive than Jeffress' mere comments.
Wait, so one person was bad means there isn't a robust Church in Palestine? Or that the Palestinians I encountered were far friendlier to Christianity than Israelis, including the Israeli woman who assaulted me for having the audacity to escort children to school? Nothing you said here invalidates anything I said. It's really more just a deflection than anything.

And I would argue Jeffress is far more dangerous because he leads 10,000+ down towards the false god of nationalism draped in Christianese every week.


Then God will require him to answer for it. But don't presume you have God's omnipotent wisdom. When in Israel, follow their customs and rules.
Where did I presume to have God's omnipotent wisdom? And I was in Palestine, and was escorting children to Kindergarten. If your customs or rules prohibit safeguarding children from extremist settlers, then your customs or rules are broken beyond repair. But, we were there as international observers, which is protected and allowed by their "rules".
Reply Quote
3
1 edit
PacifistAg
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to dermdoc • 4:32p, 8/28/20
AG
dermdoc said:
Maybe it is just me but modern day Christians seem to always want to claim idolatry and persecution.

As Lewis stated above, one can make an idol of pacifism as easy as nationalism.
I said nothing of pacifism here. I would argue replacing Christ with a rag, and changing and adding to Scripture to promote the state, is idolatry. I don't think there'd be any hesitation to call it such if Justin Trudeau did that w/ Canada and it's rag, or whatever country you want to choose.

I just think changing scripture to place America as the focus of the scripture is grotesque. If the scriptures are an icon that points to the Word, then altering it, especially for political purposes, to point elsewhere is a serious problem.
Reply Quote
3
PacifistAg
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to ramblin_ag02 • 4:37p, 8/28/20
AG

Quote:
I just think our entire culture is steeped in Christian and Biblical imagery, and you're going to be offended constantly if you expect every Christian reference to be 100% spiritual
We aren't talking about a sloppy use of biblical imagery. We're talking about literally changing the words of the text in order to place America as the focus. It's even worse when the text is explicitly about fixing our eyes on Christ. He elevated the state to the same level by altering the text.

There are so many ways he could talk about appreciating the state without altering the God-breathed text to do so.
Reply Quote
5
1 edit
RangerAg87
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
5:19p, 8/28/20
AG
I find it odd you have an issue with a man that openly prays, speaks of the Lord as a key component of his life, and fights for the unborn; but have zero issue with speakers at the dnc removing the words "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance....

I think the VP is speaking to his base...we that love the Lord, the country, AND the constitution!!
Reply Quote
2
RangerAg87
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
5:27p, 8/28/20
AG
I also had a totally opposite experience in Israel than you are experiencing, Pacifist. The only folks living in terror were the folks being bombed and rocketed by hamas and other Palestinian terrorists. I encountered many Palestinians walking freely, without fear throughout the country. There was more tension in the disputed areas, but I would say it was equal on both sides.

Things may have changed some since I was there, but I know it is not as you are describing it here.
Reply Quote
2
PacifistAg
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to RangerAg87 • 5:41p, 8/28/20
AG
RangerAg87 said:
I find it odd you have an issue with a man that openly prays, speaks of the Lord as a key component of his life, and fights for the unborn; but have zero issue with speakers at the dnc removing the words "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance....

I think the VP is speaking to his base...we that love the Lord, the country, AND the constitution!!

Yes, I have a bigger issue with replacing Christ in scripture with a rag. The fact that he's open about his faith makes it even worse, because he should know better than to use the holy scriptures the way he did. He literally changed the God-breathed text to make America the focus.

The state's loyalty oath is stupid, imo, and I'd prefer nobody even regurgitate it. If you want to say it, that's fine. Those in our family won't though.
Reply Quote
1 edit
RangerAg87
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
5:51p, 8/28/20
AG
How do you feel about the fact that the vast majority of the speakers for the rnc were believers and praised God in their speeches, and virtually the opposite happened during the dnc?

And I also think the speeches by Herschel and the many other speakers of color showed a very different view of the President than several of y'all thought...
Reply Quote
3
dermdoc
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to PacifistAg • 5:54p, 8/28/20
AG
With all due respect my friend, do you think calling the American flag a rag displays the fruits of the spirit?
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Reply Quote
3
PacifistAg
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to dermdoc • 5:56p, 8/28/20
AG
dermdoc said:
With all due respect my friend, do you think calling the American flag a rag displays the fruits of the spirit?

It's the same way I view all national flags, but point taken. Out of respect, I'll use the term 'flag' here.
Reply Quote
3
dermdoc
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to PacifistAg • 5:57p, 8/28/20
AG
Thanks.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Reply Quote
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.