Should we question people's sincerity about their faith?

49 Views | 47 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by Catag94
dermdoc
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AG
kurt vonnegut said:

I wasn't questioning whether or not its the right thing to do, only your priorities.
As well you should.
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Macarthur
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Macarthur said:

MooreTrucker said:

He may be quite sincere in his faith, but quite insincere about using it to influence that vote. The vote in reality had nothing to do with his faith and all about petty jealousy of Trump.

They're not mutually exclusive.

Really?

Calling someone else petty and jealous towards Trump? That's some rich irony.

You said his vote was 'all about petty jealousy of Trump'.

I'm asking if you really think Mitt has petty jealousy of Donald Trump? And I also am pointing out the irony given that Trump is one of the most petty and thin skinned politican/public figure we've seen come down the pike in a long time, maybe ever
PacifistAg
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AG
Yep. Plus he used the National Prayer Breakfast to display his pettiness as well.
MooreTrucker
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Nobody EVER said Trump isn't petty, but to use it for a basis for that vote is ridiculous and wrong.
Aggie4242
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MooreTrucker said:

Nobody EVER said Trump isn't petty, but to use it for a basis for that vote is ridiculous and wrong.


I've never seen you make a post about trump like you did about Romney and I read these boards on a daily basis. Is there a reason you haven't done that?

Obviously a few of you are missing the bigger point. It seems strange there isn't more religious outrage over trumps comments when you compare how both Romney and trump have lived their lives.

One has lived it consistently according to their beliefs. The other is the President. One is being called out for their actions and Christians that support the president are staying completely silent.
Frok
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AG
Christians are too judgmental. Christians need to be more judgmental.

Politics baby

MooreTrucker
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Aggie4242 said:

MooreTrucker said:

Nobody EVER said Trump isn't petty, but to use it for a basis for that vote is ridiculous and wrong.


I've never seen you make a post about trump like you did about Romney and I read these boards on a daily basis. Is there a reason you haven't done that?

Obviously a few of you are missing the bigger point. It seems strange there isn't more religious outrage over trumps comments when you compare how both Romney and trump have lived their lives.

One has lived it consistently according to their beliefs. The other is the President. One is being called out for their actions and Christians that support the president are staying completely silent.
I've never felt the need to mention Trump's pettiness because it's pretty much understood already.

Romney used his religion to justify a vote based on obvious, proven lies. It's kinda like a jury I was on once that was never able to reach a unanimous verdict because one guy "felt in my gut he's guilty" despite LOTS of evidence that showed otherwise. Romney is saying "my religion is telling me he's guilty" (which probably isn't even the case, there's WAY more to it than that) despite lots of evidence that he's not guilty (or a decided LACK of evidence that he's guilty, either way)
PacifistAg
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AG

Nevermind.

It's foolish to assume Romney's intent. He may hold the old evangelical view that "character counts". He may believe there's enough evidence to warrant removal, and that his faith guided him to vote 'guilty'. The problem is that the assumptions being made about him seem to be driven more by one's partisan tribe than anything. Of course, there's an assumption in my comment as well, so how about let's just not assume the worst about people (myself included when I talk of Jeffress, Falwell and his ilk).
MooreTrucker
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I think you're kind of picking nits over my phrasing. There's no evidence that Trump did anything. Rather there are proven lies spread about what he supposedly did. "Faith-based" should not be a factor. EVIDENCE or lack of it is all that matters. Period.

I think "character" is subjective and based on this vote, Romney doesn't have much.

And that last line is nothing but Forum 16 trolling.
PacifistAg
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AG

Quote:

I think "character" is subjective and based on this vote, Romney doesn't have much.
"Doesn't have much" is infinitely more than the person he voted to convict.

And of course one's faith can be a factor. In the late 90's, there wasn't this demand from the GOP that Senators check their faith at the door. All we heard was "character counts".
PacifistAg
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AG
And you are right about my Forum 16 comment. I was wrong for the comment. That's why I edited. I just notice that one's view on Romney's vote seems to fall neatly along partisan lines, which tells me it's less about fundamental issues of right vs wrong, but instead of issues of right vs left.

Me, personally, I have no idea why Romney voted the way he did. I just think it's lacking grace to assume the worst. I didn't watch any of the impeachment. I'm a voluntaryist and think the whole thing is just a massive joke, and both sides have looked hilariously bad.
Macarthur
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MooreTrucker said:

I think you're kind of picking nits over my phrasing. There's no evidence that Trump did anything. Rather there are proven lies spread about what he supposedly did. "Faith-based" should not be a factor. EVIDENCE or lack of it is all that matters. Period.

I think "character" is subjective and based on this vote, Romney doesn't have much.

And that last line is nothing but Forum 16 trolling.
At the risk of Turing this into a forum 16 CF, have you lost your mind?

Geeze
Ulrich
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Given that:
1. I have always believed that Romney went to washington specifically to stick a knife in Trump's back
2. The question of a vote on impeachment is not one of religion, it's a question of law

Point one makes me question whether Romney truly had a strong opinion on the point of law. Point two tells me that he was trying to hide behind his religion, not that his religion informed his vote. If his religion had an impact on his interpretation of the Constitution, then he violated the oath he took upon entering office. If his religion required the violation of that oath, then he should not have sworn it in the first place.

So basically, I don't know whether Romney is sincere in his faith and I don't care. I do think that his actions fulfilled the prediction I made several years ago, which causes me to increase my certainty in my understanding of his motives. And again, I think he invoked religion as a fig leaf - to try to retain some political support from religious people in general and Utah Mormons in particular.

So it's hard for me to view his actions here as motivated by the singleminded pursuit of truth with disregard for worldly consequences. But that does not bear on whether he believes in his religion.

And there are questions of how well we understand our own biases and motivations laced throughout. How does that impact Romney's decision-making, how does it impact my evaluation of Romney.
Catag94
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AG
Just to answer your thread title question:

Matthew 7:15-18 NIV
[15] "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. [16] By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? [17] Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. [18] A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

So, yes, you should identify a tree according to the fruit it bears. Not that you should condemn a person but perhaps engage and pray for that persons. Correct him/her if he/she claims Christ. However, do so in the love of the Lord.
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