Religion v. US Constitution

3,607 Views | 186 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by JSKolache
TexAgs91
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AggieAL1 said:

Quote:

But we must be proactive and part of our job is to spread Christianity. Government is one vehicle. Charity is another. Hospitals, schools, NGO's are all examples of Christians using a variety of avenues to spread Christ.

Government is one vehicle. Except in this country government is precluded by its founding vehicle (that Constitution) from being a vehicle for religious belief.
Thank goodness. Could you imagine if our government was a vehicle for Muslim belief? Actually after Obama I did get a whiff of what that would be like. I don't like it.
I identify as Ultra-MAGA
AggieAL1
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Thank goodness. Could you imagine if our government was a vehicle for Muslim belief? Actually after Obama I did get a whiff of what that would be like. I don't like it.

Abstractly curious. Just what was it Obama did that gave you a whiff that the government was promoting the adoption of Islam?
TexAgs91
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AggieAL1 said:

Quote:

Thank goodness. Could you imagine if our government was a vehicle for Muslim belief? Actually after Obama I did get a whiff of what that would be like. I don't like it.

Abstractly curious. Just what was it Obama did that gave you a whiff that the government was promoting the adoption of Islam?

A whiff is not a full adoption of Islam by the government. It's the constant soft hand treatment of Islam while denigrating Christians:
http://www.newsweek.com/us-bars-christian-not-muslim-refugees-syria-497494

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Just days after avoiding any religious references in the slaughter of Christians by Islamist terrorists in Kenya, President Obama chose the setting of an Easter prayer breakfast Tuesday to criticize "less-than-loving" Christians.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/7/obama-criticizes-less-than-loving-christians-at-ea/



https://www.wired.com/2011/11/obama-islamophobia-review/

http://www.wnd.com/2016/06/doj-guidelines-tied-fbi-hands-on-orlando-shooter
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/orlando-attack-failure-obamas-politically-correct-policy-analysts-say/


http://shark-tank.com/2014/09/25/obama-handcuffs-fbi-isis-recruits-u-s-mosques/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/obamas-disturbing-pattern-of-playing-down-islamic-terror/2015/07/20/1181bcbc-2ee3-11e5-8353-1215475949f4_story.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3344660/Terror-workplace-related-violence-Baffled-Obama-says-San-Bernardino-massacre-motive-mystery-uses-push-gun-control.html

Ugh... that was a nauseating stroll down memory lane. Thank term limits he's gone.
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PacifistAg
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RetiredAg:
So, for example, my faith guides me to care for the foreigner. Are you saying I'm a radical because I actively seek to help undocumented individuals, even if that help includes helping them evade detection?
You'd be at least an accessory to a crime. If your religion asks you to do that, then yeah, radical. Think if all christians did this. This country would go down the tubes. We don't get the advantages that Christians in the NT had. We can't wave a wand and provide unlimited bread and fish for illegals. Those resources come from people who live here.
My faith doesn't make one's citizenship status a prerequisite to helping and serving them. Oh, I wish all Christians would do this, as I do not concern myself with the future of this country. My only concern is God's Kingdom.


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What people never grasp is that the Statue of Liberty is a symbol of American government that other countries should try and model. It's not a Statue of Immigration that says bring all your problems to the US. If other counties overthrow their dictators, lose the socialist governments, lose the theocracies, implement a system of justice and accountability, then they wouldn't have to come here. So that's the solution. Using the US as a model, other countries can help their own people. We simply do not have the resources to directly help all the people in poverty in the world and doing so does not teach other countries to help themselves. In fact it hurts them. If we take the people on other countries that at least have the drive to help themselves by coming here those countries lose people who have that drive.
I'm not asking the US government to help people. I am saying, as a Christian, I don't care what the US government says, especially if it serves as a hindrance to serving the marginalized. Take the laws that are becoming popular around the country re: providing food for the homeless. I've been told by police I have to stop serving people food. Well, good luck with that.

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What are some examples of what you're referring? Were people who helped slaves escape "radical"? I would assume even if you consider them radical, that you'd agree that being a radical is a good thing in their case.
As I said earlier, I'm not talking about the Constitution when it allowed slaves in this country. That was a huge mistake that libs (who used to be pro-slavery) will always make sure we never forget even though the country is trying to move on. Let's not make the same mistake by bringing illegals into the US. I always hear one reason to do so is that they're cheap labor. Guess what... that makes them the next version of slaves that we'll be made to feel guilty about for centuries. No thanks. Keep them out and let's have Americans be responsible for our own prosperity for once.
But that's the thing. A piece of paper that codifies owning a human being is capable of being used to justify all sorts of evil. See the drug war for example. We don't simply get to dismiss one of the most egregious examples of what the Constitution can be used to justify simply because it's horrifically evil and paints us in a bad light. I never make the "cheap labor" argument for serving undocumented people. It has nothing to do w/ free labor. If I turn away the needy, regardless of citizenship status, then I turn away Christ. I refuse to do that, and couldn't care less what the Constitution says (although, again, the Constitution does not limit individual behavior, but governmental behavior).

But hey, I'm not fighting the label "radical". I will wear that with honor. Also, in no way am I advocating a theocracy. I'm simply saying we, as Christians, should act according to our faith and the teachings of Christ, regardless of what the state says.

“Conquer men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of justice to shame by your compassion."
--St Isaac the Syrian
PacifistAg
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Doc Daneeka said:

So try not to convert people?
In no way did Dad-O-Lot say that. He said God gave us free will to choose to follow Him or not. We can't force people. Just as Christ never forced anyone to follow Him, neither should we.
“Conquer men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of justice to shame by your compassion."
--St Isaac the Syrian
TexAgs91
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RetiredAg said:


Quote:

Quote:

RetiredAg:
So, for example, my faith guides me to care for the foreigner. Are you saying I'm a radical because I actively seek to help undocumented individuals, even if that help includes helping them evade detection?
You'd be at least an accessory to a crime. If your religion asks you to do that, then yeah, radical. Think if all christians did this. This country would go down the tubes. We don't get the advantages that Christians in the NT had. We can't wave a wand and provide unlimited bread and fish for illegals. Those resources come from people who live here.
My faith doesn't make one's citizenship status a prerequisite to helping and serving them. Oh, I wish all Christians would do this, as I do not concern myself with the future of this country. My only concern is God's Kingdom.


Quote:

What people never grasp is that the Statue of Liberty is a symbol of American government that other countries should try and model. It's not a Statue of Immigration that says bring all your problems to the US. If other counties overthrow their dictators, lose the socialist governments, lose the theocracies, implement a system of justice and accountability, then they wouldn't have to come here. So that's the solution. Using the US as a model, other countries can help their own people. We simply do not have the resources to directly help all the people in poverty in the world and doing so does not teach other countries to help themselves. In fact it hurts them. If we take the people on other countries that at least have the drive to help themselves by coming here those countries lose people who have that drive.
I'm not asking the US government to help people. I am saying, as a Christian, I don't care what the US government says, especially if it serves as a hindrance to serving the marginalized. Take the laws that are becoming popular around the country re: providing food for the homeless. I've been told by police I have to stop serving people food. Well, good luck with that.

Quote:

Quote:

What are some examples of what you're referring? Were people who helped slaves escape "radical"? I would assume even if you consider them radical, that you'd agree that being a radical is a good thing in their case.
As I said earlier, I'm not talking about the Constitution when it allowed slaves in this country. That was a huge mistake that libs (who used to be pro-slavery) will always make sure we never forget even though the country is trying to move on. Let's not make the same mistake by bringing illegals into the US. I always hear one reason to do so is that they're cheap labor. Guess what... that makes them the next version of slaves that we'll be made to feel guilty about for centuries. No thanks. Keep them out and let's have Americans be responsible for our own prosperity for once.
But that's the thing. A piece of paper that codifies owning a human being is capable of being used to justify all sorts of evil. See the drug war for example. We don't simply get to dismiss one of the most egregious examples of what the Constitution can be used to justify simply because it's horrifically evil and paints us in a bad light. I never make the "cheap labor" argument for serving undocumented people. It has nothing to do w/ free labor. If I turn away the needy, regardless of citizenship status, then I turn away Christ. I refuse to do that, and couldn't care less what the Constitution says (although, again, the Constitution does not limit individual behavior, but governmental behavior).

But hey, I'm not fighting the label "radical". I will wear that with honor. Also, in no way am I advocating a theocracy. I'm simply saying we, as Christians, should act according to our faith and the teachings of Christ, regardless of what the state says.


You're either advocating for theocracy or anarchy. One of the two.
I identify as Ultra-MAGA
PacifistAg
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Quote:

You're either advocating for theocracy or anarchy. One of the two.
Yep, and I'm not advocating theocracy. I'm a voluntaryist.
“Conquer men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of justice to shame by your compassion."
--St Isaac the Syrian
mesocosm
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Doc Daneeka said:

RetiredAg said:

Doc Daneeka said:

Let me ask you this Retired... Do laws have the effect of influencing belief?
No, I don't believe so. I can't imagine any law that's going to draw one closer to Christ. Christians using man's coercive institutions, however, is often cited as a major negative influence.


Laws very much influence belief in a society because there are large swaths of people without a moral compass. This is a truth that gays know very well... Christians should be fighting for influence in all laws, governments, and organizations, regardless of whether it might encroach on someone's freedom. If Christians don't attempt to influence society someone else will.
That is an entirely anti-American sentiment. As a good and true American it is my job to fight that nonsense tooth and nail.
Religion is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world - Bertrand Russell
Eliminatus
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What an incredibly entertaining thread! I don't know how some of you Christians on here have managed to keep your cool and try to break through to a troll. RetiredAg, I disagree with you on many points, but kudos all the same to your patience. There might be something to your non-violence stance after all.

I am also happy that I do not know the good Doc in person. What a loon!

I will answer one of his questions though. If the gubment tried to enforce a forced Christianity upon the people, I will fight them to the death. No question or hesitation. And I would not be the only one. Conversely, if the gubment outlawed Christianity wholesale and it led to fighting in the streets? I would fight the gubment on that front too. I am not Christian. But they are also still American. Which makes them my Christians. Ain't nobody messing with them on my watch!
PacifistAg
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Eliminatus said:

There might be something to your non-violence stance after all.


“Conquer men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of justice to shame by your compassion."
--St Isaac the Syrian
Texaggie7nine
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I am also happy that I do not know the good Doc in person. What a loon!
I've come to the decision that he is just bored and trolling with idiotic takes.
7nine
schmendeler
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Doc Daneeka said:

I expect no sympathy from any group... whether I "marginalize" them or not... Because I live in reality where no one cares about reciprocating... or fairness... or lofty ideas... We are either to act in the interest of ourselves or we WILL be marginalized with no sympathy...

Kind of my point...
no one... except those of us that value the protection from the government afforded by the first amendment. protection that you would short-sightedly cast away because you happen to think you have the upper hand demographically.

it's especially funny because the areas where american christians like to claim persecution of their beliefs is in the areas where society has decided that fairness be mandated. as if you not being able to treat another group badly is an imposition on your rights, rather than a protection of others'.
JSKolache
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In OP example, Sharia IIISSSSS the constitution. There is no higher authority.
 
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