So, there was a thread on the Politics board with someone boasting of sleeping with 5 prostitutes in Germany, while his wife and kids were at home. I noticed, IIRC, a couple posters that occasionally come over here defending his refusal to tell his wife. That got me to thinking about a question we've discussed here briefly before.

If one is unfaithful w/ their spouse, should they come clean? Now, you can approach this from a religious or philosophical perspective. If you believe it's conditional on how much time has elapsed, what criteria do you use to determine when you no longer need to be honest? If one believes the honorable thing to do is spare the spouse pain by hiding their infidelity, what level of pain justifies the continued deceit? Is hiding anything that may cause pain, whether infidelity or some other act, justified or "right"? Or is it only "major" issues?

Agree wholeheartedly.

If you are unfaithful then you should keep it to yourself. Then examine why you cheated if you care. Then take appropriate action. Coming clean or, getting caught in a lie will make little difference to a spouse/partner's feelings on the matter. Plus, what you don't know won't hurt you or, your SO is still in play.

Now if you feel guilty about it and think you should let your SO know then good luck. I still don't feel like it will make the situation any easier on him or, her. In these cases, its better to part ways.. and with as little damage as possible. If the SO finds out later once they are over you then they're likely better off dealing with it then. Certainly better than the bomb it drops on an in-game monogamous relationship. Add in all of the post-reveal issues that particular situation creates while trying to adjust. Staying together is more trouble than its worth.

If you cheat, then you should end the relationship. No matter how much it hurts.

Amazing Moves said:

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If you are unfaithful then you should keep it to yourself. Then examine why you cheated if you care. Then take appropriate action. Coming clean or, getting caught in a lie will make little difference to a spouse/partner's feelings on the matter. Plus, what you don't know won't hurt you or, your SO is still in play.

Now if you feel guilty about it and think you should let your SO know then good luck. I still don't feel like it will make the situation any easier on him or, her. In these cases, its better to part ways.. and with as little damage as possible. If the SO finds out later once they are over you then they're likely better off dealing with it then. Certainly better than the bomb it drops on an in-game monogamous relationship. Add in all of the post-reveal issues that particular situation creates while trying to adjust. Staying together is more trouble than its worth.

If you cheat, then you should end the relationship. No matter how much it hurts.

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To those of us who like disaster, chaos, and flames, please inform me as to the best way to fix a scenario like this with the most devasting results possible.

I wanna see a house burn down minimum or no go.

Also that thread was way out of hand, but I don't see legalizing prostitution as a viable option because in the majority of cases the women are being forced or coerced to be there--i.e. its very rarely a transaction between consenting adults even where it's legal.

Dynamite said:

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The alt right catholic position is that you are strong and brave for saving your spouse from the pain she'd feel knowing her husband committed adultery and that lying to her is a noble endeavor. Of course from my meager subjective moral position I think that husband is a piece of trash and filthy human excrement.

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A POS sure, but not for saving her from a detail that causes more jealousy and pain. In this case she has a better percentage chance of never knowing. Also a better percentage chance of being in a much less vulnerable position if she ever were to find out. Of coarse somebody in the know and close to the situation could tell her immediately but, at least you tried to avoid it by keeping your mouth shut.

The results of coming clean is equal to her catching you in a lie. She will still suffer the same amount of pain. The rumination that follows from that kind of news will be like a screw turning in her head. Constantly thinking how you betrayed her while simultaneously going through the 5 stages of grief. Why add the detail?

I obviously don't think this is a popular opinion but, that's how I see it.

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but if you decide it's really important that you do, then I think you have to tell her and let her decide what to do with you.

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There are too many legal reason why you shouldn't. You are more than likely headed for divorce. Most divorced people with kids tend to act like juveniles. Unfortunately there are umpteen examples of this rather than amicable relationships which is obviously better for the kids. One example that I've often seen is the betrayed spouse giving the kids negative info about the other parent. Telling the kids about infidelity is often used as a way of getting back at the EX while also making the betrayed look like the better parent. This in turn causes backlash which usually spirals out of control. It's such a school yard way of handling a tough situation. It does so much more harm than good. Yet it happens all the time.

All the more reason to keep your mouth shut and hope for the best.

Amazing Moves said:

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but if you decide it's really important that you do, then I think you have to tell her and let her decide what to do with you.

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There are too many legal reason why you shouldn't. You are more than likely headed for divorce. Most divorced people with kids tend to act like juveniles. Unfortunately there are umpteen examples of this rather than amicable relationships which is obviously better for the kids. One example that I've often seen is the betrayed spouse giving the kids negative info about the other parent. Telling the kids about infidelity is often used as a way of getting back at the EX while also making the betrayed look like the better parent. This in turn causes backlash which usually spirals out of control. It's such a school yard way of handling a tough situation. It does so much more harm than good. Yet it happens all the time.

All the more reason to keep your mouth shut and hope for the best.

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Yes, lying frequently turns out way better. You belong in the flarrowverse if you think lying to someone to spare them pain is the appropriate response.

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The alt right catholic position is that you are strong and brave for saving your spouse from the pain she'd feel knowing her husband committed adultery and that lying to her is a noble endeavor.

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So, this is really just an "alt right" position? I can't imagine the Catholic church holding this position, especially that "lying to her is a noble endeavor".

Ah thanks. I lose track of all the socks.

I didn't mean for that to be confusing. Real Catholics certainly don't support hiding infidelity and lying to your spouse and taking away her choice to leave or forgive. Only #FakeCatholics living in mortal sin with big mouths and little testicles support lying about infidelity to their spouse. They think they're brave for it.

Sometimes I hope hell exists just for people like this.

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What the honorable thing is, depends on the situation. If you're in high school and you cheat on your girlfriend, then yeah, stop seeing her and you both move on without much issue. If you're 35 with a wife, three kids, and a mortgage?

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I am not sure what kids and a mortgage have to do with one's commitments as a spouse. The honorable thing would have been to not sleep with other women, no?

Not really seeing the dilemma from a Christian religious perspective. Don't commit adultery, don't bear false witness, confess your sins to one another, Satan is the father of lies, God is truth, evil hides in the darkness, and on and on and on.

On a secular note, I agree with the Amazing Moves. If you don't want to confess then just end it. Either your spouse will find out anyway and it will be 100x worse if they don't find out from you, or you will have to live with your guilt and live lying to the person closest to you in the world for the rest of your life. If you respect your spouse so little that you can be dishonest with them for the rest or you (or their) life, then they are better off without you.

Right, but in this scenario we're already past the "don't cheat on your spouse" step.

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Right, but in this scenario we're already past the "don't cheat on your spouse" step.

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I realize this, but I guess I am just focusing on the word "honor". I didn't think that honor really had a contextual component. Kinda like integrity is the measure of someone regardless of if they stole a penny or $1MM.

Least immediate collateral damage? Sure. But I imagine the long term damage is greater by hiding it.

RetiredAg said:

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So, there was a thread on the Politics board with someone boasting of sleeping with 5 prostitutes in Germany, while his wife and kids were at home. I noticed, IIRC, a couple posters that occasionally come over here defending his refusal to tell his wife. That got me to thinking about a question we've discussed here briefly before.

If one is unfaithful w/ their spouse, should they come clean? Now, you can approach this from a religious or philosophical perspective. If you believe it's conditional on how much time has elapsed, what criteria do you use to determine when you no longer need to be honest? If one believes the honorable thing to do is spare the spouse pain by hiding their infidelity, what level of pain justifies the continued deceit? Is hiding anything that may cause pain, whether infidelity or some other act, justified or "right"? Or is it only "major" issues?

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If the Holy Spirit resides in you,the discomfort will be huge until the matter is confessed and out there. That discomfort might manifest in various ways---but eventually will have to be dealt with through confession and repentance as the best outcome. Marriage vows are just that, and we all are tempted at some point, but we made promises entering into the relationship.

dds08 said:

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Honesty has a big brother named Truth. Truth has a big brother named I am.

They all look out for each other too.

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Time answers to honesty. Not the other way around.

The known and unknown answer to honesty as well.

This is all hypothetical to me, because I can only speak for myself as a man who has not cheated and has no desire to cheat.

While sometimes the thought of a threesome or sex with another woman, if the thought is left unattended, can get me going (I am a red-blooded male, after all), I have no desire to cheat. The only circumstances that I can imagine myself hooking up with another woman is if I were out of town for business and drank too much at the hotel bar and in a drunken state hooked up with a woman who was in a similar state. I cannot see myself willfully having an affair or paying for sex in the manner that the poster in the politics board did. Morally, I would be voiding an agreement I made with my spouse, and pragmatically why would I risk my house, my son, half of my assets (etc) and my best friend?

Therefore, If I did something under those circumstances, I would not confess it to my wife. If she were to ever ask if I had cheated on her, I would tell her, but I would not go out of my way to inform her. This has nothing to do with cowardice on my end - I would be clearing my conscience by pushing the burden onto her.

I remember a few years ago I had confessed to looking at porn - while my guilt and my conscience was assuaged, she on the other hand was suspicious and distrustful of me for a long time afterwards. It took her a long time to come around to the idea of me working from home. Therefore, I don't want her to lay awake at night wondering what I am doing when I am called away for business.

**FYI, I had discussed this with my wife prior to posting this, and she agreed with my thought process for this hypothetical situation. Frankly, the thought of paying for a prostitute or having an affair is so incredibly foreign to me that I cannot even imagine how I would respond after that.

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While sometimes the thought of a threesome or sex with another woman, if the thought is left unattended, can get me going (I am a red-blooded male, after all), I have no desire to cheat. The only circumstances that I can imagine myself hooking up with another woman is if I were out of town for business and drank too much at the hotel bar and in a drunken state hooked up with a woman who was in a similar state. I cannot see myself willfully having an affair or paying for sex in the manner that the poster in the politics board did. Morally, I would be voiding an agreement I made with my spouse, and pragmatically why would I risk my house, my son, half of my assets (etc) and my best friend?

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I don't know you or pretend to, so don't take what I am about to say as anything about you personally: Everyone who has ever cheated has said this before. Sure, the movies tell us that cheaters are these people who had desire to honor their commitments from day 1, but many a cheater have found themselves in someone elses bed unable to figure out they got from your statement to their current situation.

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Therefore, If I did something under those circumstances, I would not confess it to my wife. If she were to ever ask if I had cheated on her, I would tell her, but I would not go out of my way to inform her. This has nothing to do with cowardice on my end - I would be clearing my conscience by pushing the burden onto her.

I remember a few years ago I had confessed to looking at porn - while my guilt and my conscience was assuaged, she on the other hand was suspicious and distrustful of me for a long time afterwards. It took her a long time to come around to the idea of me working from home. Therefore, I don't want her to lay awake at night wondering what I am doing when I am called away for business.

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I think the point is that you forgo that right when you cheat. You earned the distrust. It makes no sense that you get to hide it to avoid those consequences.

Would any of you gentlemen be ok with your wife cheating on you and you not knowing about it?

DryFly said:

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Would any of you gentlemen be ok with your wife cheating on you and you not knowing about it?

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Cheating? I would want to know because there would most likely be issues within the relationship.

The one-off, accidental slip-up I described in my hypothetical situation? No, I would not want to know.

Solo Tetherball Champ said:

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DryFly said:

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Would any of you gentlemen be ok with your wife cheating on you and you not knowing about it?

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Cheating? I would want to know because there would most likely be issues within the relationship.

The one-off, accidental slip-up I described in my hypothetical situation? No, I would not want to know.

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There's no such thing as an "accidental" slip-up. Even the "one-off" is cheating. But what tends to happen is if a person gets away w/ the "one-off", they do it again. Then they rationalize it as just another "one-off". Would it destroy the trust you have in her? Sure, but trust can be rebuilt. It can only be rebuilt, however, if there's honesty.

AstroAg17 said:

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One off? That's an unproveable assumption. Statistics say your odds of doing it again are about 50-50. A person may say they won't, but that's worthless.

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What are the odds that someone would cheat to begin with? Where does that come into play?

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Accidental? Nope.

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I don't say accidental like "I tripped and fell on her and my peen got stuck". I mean I have seen a lot of people do incredibly stupid stuff while drunk that they wouldn't do while sober.

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Slip up? Did the person say "oops, silly me" after?

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Sure if by "Ooops, silly me" you mean being beset with guilt and self-loathing.

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They cheated on their wife. It's adultery. It's betrayal. It's grounds for divorce, both legally and from a Christian perspective.

That you think it's not cheating is amazing. I didn't know people like you existed before I started texagging, and if you told me that most of the people arguing for the utilitarian course of deceit and lies would be Christian, I never would have believed it without seeing it.

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I'm drawing a distinction between a one time thing - in my scenario that was prompted by alcohol - and cheating, which is a verb in the present participle, an ongoing action. While you are correct in that both are infidelity and adultery, there is more nuance to the situation. It's like how our legal code does not treat premeditated murder and running over a jogger who wasn't paying attention to the crossing signals at an intersection as the same thing. Sure, in both situations you killed someone, but that is where the similarities end.

Ever been in a relationship? Imagine if your partner knew every thought that entered your head. Imagine if she knew every salty remark, irritated comment, or what you really thought of she looked in that dress. If my wife knew every unbidden thought and emotion that passed through my head of a day, week, and month, she would be torn between shock and disgust at me. I'm sure the same would be true in reverse. I do not need to know every impure thought, negative attitude towards me, etc. I need to know if there is a pattern.

I am saying this as a man who is happily married to his best friend.

In my hypothetical situation, I screwed up - I allowed myself to get into a vulnerable position, a position where I am not in my right state of mind. Alcohol affects us - it changes our thought processes and lowers our inhibitions. Stuff we would swear off doing sober for all the right reasons seems like a genius idea when you've had a few.

That is why, in this hypothetical situation, I would not tell me wife of what transpired. I am not going to clear my guilty conscience by dumping this bomb in her lap. I would want that guilt to chew me up inside and force me to be a better man - I can be pretty hard on myself but I channel that negativity into making myself better. So yeah, I will deceive my wife - I will not confess to her unless she asks me if I have cheated on her. I will admit that is a lie of omission.

Now for reality: when I'm on business trips, I don't drink - I don't allow myself to even get down that path. I've actually ordered a beer at a bar, dumped it out in the bathroom, and filled it up halfway with tap water to maintain the social appearance of drinking - I've observed that if your hands are empty, people will try to put something in it.

I'm a reasonably fit, attractive enough guy that I've been propositioned by drunk (and sober) women at trade show happy hours when I've been traveling. When that happens, I find a way to excuse myself from the happy hour, go to my hotel and order a pizza and watch Netflix and thank God that I was sober. Why Pizza? in case I regret my decision, it is really hard to want sex after eating most of a pizza.

Frankly, this is all moot. I want my count of sexual partners to remain at one.