Suicide - Why or Why not?

4,637 Views | 66 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by JoeCephas1974
americathegreat1492
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AstroAg17 said:

The statement that if you are alive, you will be happy, or bored, or sad, or angry is equally true. Its just as true then that life is happiness, boredom, sadness, or anger. If life is a bunch of things, then it isn't just one thing. That's why "life is suffering" seems completely unprofound to me.
Then you're a lucky dude.
americathegreat1492
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Additionally, these things are not equally true among all people. For some people, life is hellish. For some people, life is pretty grand. That's what the existential question is. If life is ****ing awful for you, should you pretend life is cool? If life is rainbow colored farts, should you pretend life is terrible?
americathegreat1492
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AstroAg17 said:

It has nothing to do with personal experience. I've had a pleasant life, but it would be silly to say that life is happiness. It's not. There are a bunch of other things mixed in there. Further, what "life" in the grand sense is shouldn't be different from person to person.
Why is that? Really?
americathegreat1492
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Suffering is an inherent quality of existence. How's that for a specific, exact, statement?
TexAgs91
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AG
americathegreat1492 said:

TexAgs91 said:

I just can't imagine that there's not another solution other than death for anything. You only get to live once. You can spend the rest of eternity dead.
The fact that you can't imagine is indicative of a dearth of understanding those who experience depression. Permanent solution to a temporary problem is the most insulting thing I have ever heard or read.
I don't understand your last sentence.

Quote:

For everyone:

Really? You think this is temporary? Have you ever dealt with people who through no fault of their own, cannot find a way out? Have you dealt with people who experience recurrent depression regardless of who they talk to or what drugs they take?

I ask these questions literally. If you've never been so destroyed, for so long a time, that you haven't contemplated suicide, then you have absolutely no clue what any of this is like.

That's not to say that you can't discuss suicide, the consequences of it, or the reasons behind it.
Yes. Depression is temporary. I haven't said anything implying it's not bad. I just feel death is worse. Depression is either solvable with medication, counseling, changing your life in some way, time, or if not it ends with your death. Unless you're immortal, that's temporary.
YokelRidesAgain
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AG
RetiredAg said:

Off the top of my head, the only case of suicide that I can recall in scripture is Judas, which may explain the hard line, salvational stance the church has historically taken on the issue.
In two of the three versions of the death of King Saul, he is said to have fallen on his sword, as did his vassal.

The story of Samson could be regarded as suicide, I suppose.

There are a couple of other very minor figures I can't recall off the top of my head.
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PacifistAg
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AG
YokelRidesAgain said:

RetiredAg said:

Off the top of my head, the only case of suicide that I can recall in scripture is Judas, which may explain the hard line, salvational stance the church has historically taken on the issue.
In two of the three versions of the death of King Saul, he is said to have fallen on his sword, as did his vassal.

The story of Samson could be regarded as suicide, I suppose.

There are a couple of other very minor figures I can't recall off the top of my head.
Ah yes, thanks. I knew there had to be others.

Something interesting that crossed my mind w/ your reference of Samson. I think it would be a suicide in the same vein that a suicide bomber is considered "suicide" today.
85Photon
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Have you ever had to put down an animal because it was in a lot of pain and nothing could be done for it? Why should we make humans suffer more?

Suicide may imply a lack of hope or trust, but it may be a merciful option.

My religious view is that it's a sin, but not an unforgivable sin. Grace covers it and all other sins for those who trust Christ.

I don't condemn those who see this as their only option. I'm saddened when it was clear they had other options, and sad for their families. I've seen both sides of the coin, including pain for families watching a loved one suffer for too long.

Like most things it's not as black and white and some would like.

What is the greater good? That's how I decide. If you think the answer to that question is always the same you're not being sincere or don't understand what the greater good is all about.
Texaggie7nine
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This thread reads a little differently now.

Here's to hoping it was a post made under the influence of something, or just venting and that everything is ok.
7nine
AggieRain
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AG
No kidding. I looked for him on a couple of other boards today and didn't see any recent posts. Not sure if he punched his ticket last night or not, but I saw that the mods scrubbed the posts from last night...
swimmerbabe11
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What did I miss? I hope he is ok.
powerbelly
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swimmerbabe11 said:

What did I miss? I hope he is ok.
This.
AggieRain
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He wrote a "final" post last night. Cryptic and unsettling. No further posting after that, though some posters were reaching out to help.
Post removed:
by user
swimmerbabe11
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I hope he saw the posts reaching out to help and knows that we are praying for him. In fact, I hope he reads this and takes comfort in our concern.

I saw his post on the prayer request thread and definitely think of him, drevens, retired and Watson often and hold them close in prayers. Depression is sneaky and awful beast.
Texaggie7nine
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Did anyone ever figure out who he was previously? I assume he didn't just start posting in April.
7nine
Gomer95
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I'm one of the posters who was replying to that thread when I saw it late last night and I was very concerned for him so I asked staff if they could contact him and see if he was ok. They informed me this morning that he is indeed safe and ok so I'm very glad nothing bad happened.

That said, I pray he realizes he has been given a second chance and if a bunch of Texags posters that don't even personally know him care about him, then how much do his friends and family care about him? I would imagine a million times more! Life is precious and we shouldn't want to throw it away. I hope he also knows many of us on Texags are always there for him and that God is ALWAYS there for him.
Texaggie7nine
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That is good to hear that he is ok.

It was confusing reading his post. Part of it seemed like he was just trying to make a point. Part of it seemed like he was under the influence of something.

7nine
Aggrad08
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AG
Good to hear, that post was worrisome.
Moderator
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Staff
Yes. He is okay. We appreciate any flagging to alert Mods to something along these line.
SoulSlaveAG2005
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AG
Thanks for the update. Was definitely in my prayers last night, and will continue to be.
Snap E Tom
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Moderator said:

Yes. He is okay. We appreciate any flagging to alert Mods to something along these line.
Thanks, mods.

I speak for myself, but I'm willing to bet others who offered to talk to him, that if he does ever want to talk, feel free to give him my contact info.
americathegreat1492
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I'm not exactly sure how to start this, but here goes. This isn't the first time I've dealt with depression, and this isn't the first time I've been thoroughly ashamed of my actions. I'm not very good at talking to people around me about what's going on, for a number of reasons. These aren't excuses to not do it; I just wanted to get them out there.

The first thing, is that people want to fix broken things. Cars, computers, plumbing, even other people. When you tell someone what's wrong with you, especially someone in your family, their first instinct is to try to fix it. It's been my experience that family members have expressed extreme frustration that they just don't know how to fix it, and that bothers them. Here's the thing. You CAN'T fix it. There is nothing you can do to make this go away right now. Even years of therapy and extreme medical interventions will sometimes FAIL TO FIX IT. So what do you think you're going to be able to do??? And so, I avoid. I avoid talking about this because I've got my own issues and don't need to be forced to deal with someone else's frustration on top of what's going on.

The second thing. A lot of people just can't handle it. They can't handle it when you tell them something is wrong. Sometimes they are unable to connect with you when you tell them. Other times, it would seem that the act of informing them about your own suffering makes them suffer even more than you are. And so again, I'm forced to have to deal with someone else's issues on top of my own.


Let's not forget how many people will forever see you. If you tell these people of your innermost weaknesses, that's how they'll start seeing you: weak. They'll end up treating you with kid gloves, or just dissociating from you altogether. The scary part is that I've noticed that I unconsciously feel weak around these people afterwards, even if it's been some time since we talked about things.


Let's not forget the lack of understanding. What you get is a facsimilie of empathy and an almost arrogant assumption that your experiences aren't valid. You've seen it. The tropes. The cliches. "Think positively!" "Try harder!" "It gets better" "Suicide is just a permanent solution to a temporary problem"


The real kicker for me is the shame. You can be depressed, or anxious, or struggling with something, and that's one element of the problem. On top of that, I also feel ashamed. Ashamed of being weak. Ashamed of being the way I am. Ashamed of not being good enough. Ashamed of not living up to my potential. Ashamed that other people seem to find a way to never go through anything remotely like this, but that I'm such a piece of **** that I can't even see how that's possible.



It occurred to me that I really haven't given this meaning thing a fair shake. Hell, maybe not even a tenth of a fair shake. I can always choose to end it. That's always an option on the table. If I really feel the need to choose that option, I always can. But, if I'm going to do a full and proper analysis of my options, I owe it to myself to put some real effort into the pursuit of a sense of meaning. I don't mean happiness. This life has taught me happiness comes and goes so often on a whim. If I try to rely on that to sustain me, well, I won't be sustained at all when the going gets rough. What I mean is to pursue a sense of meaning that makes this pain worth it. I already have a good idea on where to start. My biggest problem in the past was that I had all the knowledge. I don't mean that in an arrogant way. I know precisely where my weaknesses are, and I know exactly the most efficient methods to turn them into strengths. I've simply failed to implement the methods, in no small part due to the nature of the problems. Doing is simple, but doing is hard. Here's to giving doing a shot. I'll report back in a week. Thanks.
Woody2006
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AG
I'm glad you are still posting. Please dont go away or feel ashamed.

This is a great place to have meaningful conversations without fear of people looking down on you. You can be as honest as you feel comfortable being.
powerbelly
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AG

Quote:

The real kicker for me is the shame. You can be depressed, or anxious, or struggling with something, and that's one element of the problem. On top of that, I also feel ashamed. Ashamed of being weak. Ashamed of being the way I am. Ashamed of not being good enough. Ashamed of not living up to my potential. Ashamed that other people seem to find a way to never go through anything remotely like this, but that I'm such a piece of **** that I can't even see how that's possible.
I know that you may not believe me, but there is zero reason to be ashamed.
ramblin_ag02
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Feel free to PM me. I know exactly where you are coming from. I've been as far down that road as you are now, and maybe even further. I'm alive today only by the pure love and grace of God, and I mean that in an entirely literal way.

You need hope. I don't know if I can help you find that, but I'm willing to try.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
AggieRain
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americathegreat1492 said:

Doing is simple, but doing is hard. Here's to giving doing a shot. I'll report back in a week. Thanks.


See that you do. I'm looking forward to your next post.
Texaggie7nine
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Glad you are seeing a new angle. Just because you haven't found the path to feeling meaning in your life doesn't mean it's not out there. Just have to keep looking. Helping others always seems to be a very effective way to find it.
7nine
JoeCephas1974
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Snap E Tom said:

Moderator said:

Yes. He is okay. We appreciate any flagging to alert Mods to something along these line.
Thanks, mods.

I speak for myself, but I'm willing to bet others who offered to talk to him, that if he does ever want to talk, feel free to give him my contact info.
Without a doubt.
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