What are the best reasons to die? What are rational reasons to die? What are the consequences of dying in this way according to the various religions?

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/21/health/raison-suicide-tony-scott/

AstroAg17 said:

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Why:
-You want to.
-There is no hope no matter how much you want there to be.
-Your suffering is beyond imagination.
-You've rationally weighed how much you're suffering against those who would suffer in your death and determined your death is the lesser.

Why not:
-You don't want to.
-Your suicide will negatively impact the lives of others, but this outweighs your own suffering.
-Religious reasons.

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Dishonoring the famiry.

Why not... Tacos and beer.
Why... Lack thereof

747Ag said:

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Why not... Tacos and beer.
Why... Lack thereof

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It's a lot like getting a tattoo. It's permanent proof of temporary insanity.

I'm curious. How many of the people posting in this thread have legitimately experienced severe depression? Not sadness, not down in the dumps, legitimate severe depression.

TexAgs91 said:

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I just can't imagine that there's not another solution other than death for anything. You only get to live once. You can spend the rest of eternity dead.

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Severe depression does not allow for this kind of thinking. I can't imagine the depths I would have to sink to before even considering suicide, but it must be a dark and scary place to be.

powerbelly51 said:

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TexAgs91 said:

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I just can't imagine that there's not another solution other than death for anything. You only get to live once. You can spend the rest of eternity dead.

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Severe depression does not allow for this kind of thinking. I can't imagine the depths I would have to sink to before even considering suicide, but it must be a dark and scary place to be.

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It is. I battle this all the time. It's crushing.

agreed. Except in the case of terminal illness where you aren't really choosing to die so much as how.

TexAgs91 said:

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I just can't imagine that there's not another solution other than death for anything. You only get to live once. You can spend the rest of eternity dead.

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The fact that you can't imagine is indicative of a dearth of understanding those who experience depression. Permanent solution to a temporary problem is the most insulting thing I have ever heard or read.


For everyone:

Really? You think this is temporary? Have you ever dealt with people who through no fault of their own, cannot find a way out? Have you dealt with people who experience recurrent depression regardless of who they talk to or what drugs they take?

I ask these questions literally. If you've never been so destroyed, for so long a time, that you haven't contemplated suicide, then you have absolutely no clue what any of this is like.

That's not to say that you can't discuss suicide, the consequences of it, or the reasons behind it.

AstroAg17 said:

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If the phrase is inaccurate, you should disagree with it and possibly give reasons why. I think in many cases suicide is a permanent measure taken to deal with something that may be temporary. This isn't always the case of course. Retired and ATG don't seem to agree, and I don't understand their outrage. It doesn't trivialize anything, unless you take it as an absolute statement about all suicides. It certainly doesn't seem insulting.

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Life is suffering. When that suffering is permanent, and intense, do you deny that is it a solution?

AstroAg17 said:

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If the phrase is inaccurate, you should disagree with it and possibly give reasons why. I think in many cases suicide is a permanent measure taken to deal with something that may be temporary. This isn't always the case of course. Retired and ATG don't seem to agree, and I don't understand their outrage. It doesn't trivialize anything, unless you take it as an absolute statement about all suicides. It certainly doesn't seem insulting.

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Who said I was outraged? His statement did trivialize it though. It's not a matter of "insanity". It's nothing like getting a tattoo. To chalk it up to "temporary insanity" absolutely does trivialize it because it ignores the root problems in favor of a way of thinking more suited for a bumper sticker.

Direct suicide is never okay and never justified IMO. It is the taking of your own life, of which one does not have the right to do since God our creator gave us this one life as a gift. Not saying I don't see why people do it, but that doesn't make it right according to God's law. It is the irreversible rejection and final sin against God without having a chance to repent here on Earth.

That being said, it is not 100% guaranteed each and every person that commits suicide is going straight to hell necessarily. Very informative article on this:

https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/suicide

Tamu_mgm said:

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Never okay and never justified. It is the taking of your own life, of which one does not have the right to do since God our creator gave us this one life as a gift. Not saying I don't see why people do it, but that doesn't make it right according to God's law. It is the irreversible rejection and final sin against God without having a chance to repent here on Earth.

That being said, it is not 100% guaranteed each and every person that commits suicide is going straight to hell necessarily. Very informative article on this:

https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/suicide

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I agree it's a sin, but it has no bearing on the eternal destination for a person. One can be "saved" and have a personal relationship with Christ and commit this sin. It doesn't negate their faith in Christ though. It just means they were broken and hurting, and erred in how they dealt with it.

RetiredAg said:

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Tamu_mgm said:

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Never okay and never justified. It is the taking of your own life, of which one does not have the right to do since God our creator gave us this one life as a gift. Not saying I don't see why people do it, but that doesn't make it right according to God's law. It is the irreversible rejection and final sin against God without having a chance to repent here on Earth.

That being said, it is not 100% guaranteed each and every person that commits suicide is going straight to hell necessarily. Very informative article on this:

https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/suicide

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I agree it's a sin, but it has no bearing on the eternal destination for a person. One can be "saved" and have a personal relationship with Christ and commit this sin. It doesn't negate their faith in Christ though. It just means they were broken and hurting, and erred in how they dealt with it.

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I disagree. If you die in a state of sin, then you are not in the state of grace, and therefore whether you believe in Christ or had a relationship with Him previously, it has been severed in that one final act of self-murder. It's a proverbial and permanent "punch in the face" to Jesus in the worst way, and not making up for it or being forgiven of it since you don't have an opportunity to repent since you're dead. We can't pretend our actions don't play an enormous role in our eternal destination, because Jesus himself said so. Especially in this suicide circumstance when sin is the very last thing you do.

AstroAg17 said:

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You're correct, I lumped y'all's posts together. Apologies.

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No worries. My chronic depression stems from several issues that I won't go into here, but I don't think my suffering is permanent. There are just those times where that pain becomes so hard to deal with that I lose that hope. It's that hope, though, that always pulls me back.

Now, I don't want to speak for ATG, but I think much of the frustration I've felt in the past on this subject, and this may be where he's coming from as well, it's the shocking amount of ignorance and lack of compassion on issues of mental health that we've seen in society, in general, as well as the church. It's gotten better, but it's something that many may not notice unless you suffer from it, or a loved one does.

Quote:

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Now, I don't want to speak for ATG, but I think much of the frustration I've felt in the past on this subject, and this may be where he's coming from as well, it's the shocking amount of ignorance and lack of compassion on issues of mental health that we've seen in society, in general, as well as the church. It's gotten better, but it's something that many may not notice unless you suffer from it, or a loved one does.

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I think far too many people suffer with depression in silence and are afraid to reach out for help because of the stigma many in society attach to it.

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I don't agree that life is suffering

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Sounds like you're not old enough or unlucky enough to suffer. Life is suffering is a core tenet of eastern religions. If you're not suffering, just wait. If you're lucky enough to live in the top 1% of human existence, you might feel that way. Rape, murder, destruction, these are the common experiences of humanity that live outside the western world. It is quite rational to conclude that existence is so miserable that it should just end for those who a re forced to deal with wretchedness on a daily basis.

Unless the last thing you do is repent, virtually everyone dies with sin that's been left undealt with. Considering suicide, especially suicide driven by depression, typically involves not thinking clearly or rationally, I disagree entirely that it severs relationship with Christ.

powerbelly51 said:

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Quote:

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Now, I don't want to speak for ATG, but I think much of the frustration I've felt in the past on this subject, and this may be where he's coming from as well, it's the shocking amount of ignorance and lack of compassion on issues of mental health that we've seen in society, in general, as well as the church. It's gotten better, but it's something that many may not notice unless you suffer from it, or a loved one does.

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I think far too many people suffer with depression in silence and are afraid to reach out for help because of the stigma many in society attach to it.

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Absolutely agree. Especially men, since our society has such a perverse understanding of what masculinity is. Mental health issues are viewed as weakness, and weakness/vulnerability is viewed as not masculine.

Off the top of my head, the only case of suicide that I can recall in scripture is Judas, which may explain the hard line, salvational stance the church has historically taken on the issue.

AstroAg17 said:

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There's good and bad in varying amounts in pretty much everyone's life. Yes? Life isn't all one or all the other.

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I'm not making a claim that life is all suffering. For people that deal with certain permanent mental disorders, life seems inexhaustibly filled with suffering. Frankly, many people who have "mental disorders" don't have such things because they solely are emotionally distraught. They literally have experienced significant negative things. Mom was never around. Dad used to hit me. My uncle raped me. I barely have enough money to make ends meet. And on and on. I'll also make the claim that if you think life isn't full of a significant amount of suffering for the majority of people, you've never been to the third world. Life is full of examples where you don't get what you want, even if what you want isn't overreaching. You can explain away how people feel about that failure, but failing to achieve is the truth.

AstroAg17 said:

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What is the difference between "life is suffering" and "life is all suffering"? Neither statement is qualified. They re both absolute.

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Quibble, squabble, quabble. It's a statement from the Buddha. It means that inherent in life is suffering. If you are alive, you will suffer. Period, end of story. It doesn't mean that you can't be happy on occasion. It means that the inherent quality of existence is to experience suffering.