bamdvm said:

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Good post Agie. Interestingly, these same things are referenced in Ezekiel 33 with regards to minimum requirements to live in/possess the land.

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1) Don't agree with your interpretation of Ezekiel scripture- Yes to Idols, Yes to Sleeping around, Would say No- to strangled animals and No to Blood. Would say Blood is clarified by the Sword commment. What we see is 10 commmandment moral laws.

Ezekiel 33 14-15 And though I say to the wicked man that he shall surely die, if he turns away from his sin and does what is right and just, giving back pledges, restoring stolen goods, living by the statutes that bring life, and doing no wrong, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Ezekiel 33 25-27 Give them this answer: Thus says the Lord GOD: You eat on the mountains, you raise your eyes to your idols, you shed blood - yet you would keep possession of the land? You rely on your sword, you do abominable things, each one of you defiles his neighbor's wife - yet you would keep possession of the land?

2) Jews and Christians agree we should love God (no false gods) and Love Neighbor do not lie, cheat, steal and sleep around- Moral laws- 10 commandments Where we disagree is the ceremonial laws- eatting shellfish, cutting of skin- circumcision. What we see in these verses in Ezekiel are moral laws. These are the 10 commandments. Don't worship false Gods, do not lie, cheat, steal, murder, sleep around. Every Christian agrees with this.

Booboo the evidence does not matter to you.

Despite the fact the covenant is with Jews and Gentiles are grafted in and God is going to put the Torah in you and write it on your heart, it doesn't mean anything.

Despite the fact that the Messiah walked Torah perfectly and we are told to walk as He walked, it doesn't mean anything.

Despite the fact Yeshua said that the Torah is not going away until Heaven and Earth pass away and that anyone not doing and anyone teaching not to follow the commandments would be least in the kingdom, it doesn't mean anything.

Despite the fact that Paul calls himself a Pharisee, was blameless as to the Torah, and was willing to pay for 4 other men and himself to complete the Nazarite Vow (which is approx. 1 year salary), it doesn't mean anything.

Despite Paul saying be doers of the Torah and not just hearers, doesn't mean anything.

Despite the fact that God said the Torah was forever, He sent prophet after prophet calling people to return to Him and to the Torah, it doesn't mean anything.

Despite the author of Hebrews telling us that disobedience is the same as unbelief in chapter 3, it doesn't mean anything.

Despite 1 Timothy 3:16-17 saying that all of Scripture (only thing that existed at that time as the Tanach) was good for teaching, correcting, reproof, etc., it doesn't mean anything.

Despite the fact that in Rev. 2 & 3 you have those assemblies being told that unless that change their deeds they will have their lampstand taken and/or He will come quickly to them - meaning they are in darkness and not with Him, it doesn't mean anything. Note those deeds aren't just the 4.

Despite the fact that in the Millennial the Torah will be followed, it doesn't mean anything.


I am not stubborn like you. The Holy Spirit called me (as is His role - Ezekiel 11:19-20) and it became clear to me what I needed to do. I changed. That is not stubborn. I am persistent!

booboo91 said:

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bamdvm said:

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Good post Agie. Interestingly, these same things are referenced in Ezekiel 33 with regards to minimum requirements to live in/possess the land.

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1) Don't agree with your interpretation of Ezekiel scripture- Yes to Idols, Yes to Sleeping around, Would say No- to strangled animals and No to Blood. Would say Blood is clarified by the Sword commment. What we see is 10 commmandment moral laws.

Ezekiel 33 14-15 And though I say to the wicked man that he shall surely die, if he turns away from his sin and does what is right and just, giving back pledges, restoring stolen goods, living by the statutes that bring life, and doing no wrong, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Ezekiel 33 25-27 Give them this answer: Thus says the Lord GOD: You eat on the mountains, you raise your eyes to your idols, you shed blood - yet you would keep possession of the land? You rely on your sword, you do abominable things, each one of you defiles his neighbor's wife - yet you would keep possession of the land?

2) Jews and Christians agree we should love God (no false gods) and Love Neighbor do not lie, cheat, steal and sleep around- Moral laws- 10 commandments Where we disagree is the ceremonial laws- eatting shellfish, cutting of skin- circumcision. What we see in these verses in Ezekiel are moral laws. These are the 10 commandments. Don't worship false Gods, do not lie, cheat, steal, murder, sleep around. Every Christian agrees with this.

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Not every Christian. You don't even follow the 10, so stop saying you do....your religion does not honor the Sabbath.

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Booboo the evidence does not matter to you.

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Funny I would say the exact same for you. We agree you have the OT down pat, you fail at the NT. You don't know how the story ends.

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Despite the fact the covenant is with Jews and Gentiles are grafted in and God is going to put the Torah in you and write it on your heart, it doesn't mean anything.

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We agree Christians are grafted on to faith of Jews (St. Paul's words). Is not eating shellfish and not being circumcized cuting of skin Torah?

Or rather is loving God and Loving, circumcizing your heart to God- not Torah? Christians would say the later.

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Despite the fact that Paul calls himself a Pharisee, was blameless as to the Torah, and was willing to pay for 4 other men and himself to complete the Nazarite Vow (which is approx. 1 year salary), it doesn't mean anything.

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Does Paul letters to the Galatians- speaking out specifically against- Judiaziers (your position) not mean anything?

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Despite the fact that in the Millennial the Torah will be followed, it doesn't mean anything.

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I am ignorant on the Millennial.



Off to work- I will respond later.

I don't know how the story ends? Really?

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We agree Christians are grafted on to faith of Jews (St. Paul's words). Is not eating shellfish and not being circumcized cuting of skin Torah?

Or rather is loving God and Loving, circumcizing your heart to God- not Torah? Christians would say the later.

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This is incoherent. Per John, following the commandments is love. Why loving God is part of the equation so to speak, it is not the full equation.

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Does Paul letters to the Galatians- speaking out specifically against- Judiaziers (your position) not mean anything?

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Obviously you have a different definition of a judiazer than I do. Judaizing is works = salvation. This I do not teach therefore you are wrong about me. So no it doesn't mean anything.

Let's take a look at Galatians about this very topic and show what judaizing really is from the perspective of Paul:

2:15-16- "We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles; 16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Messiah Yeshua, even we have believed in Messiah Yeshua, so that we may be justified by faith in Messiah and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Looks like someone is talking about justification by works rather than by faith (circumcision of the heart).

3:2 - did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh

Again, speaking about salvation through faith and not by works.

3:7 - Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham.

Sounds like faith wins again.

3:8b - So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

Faith again.

3:11 - Now that no one is justified by the Torah before God is evident; for, "The righteous man shall live by faith."

The righteous man shall live by faith? Where did that come from? The Prophet Habakkuk. You know he said: Therefore the Torah is ignored
And justice is never upheld.
For the wicked surround the righteous;
Therefore justice comes out perverted.

5:2-4 - Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Messiah will be of no benefit to you. 3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4 You have been severed from Messiah, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

There it is again. Those seeking to receive salvation by the law....judaizer.

5:16-18 -But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Walk by the Spirit? What is the Spirit's role? What does this mean? Ezekiel 11:19-20 - And I will give them one heart, and put a new spirit within them. And I will take the heart of stone out of their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, 20 that they may walk in My statutes and keep My ordinances and do them. Then they will be My people, and I shall be their God.

Ezekiel 36:26-27 - Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

The Spirit is to cause us to walk about the statutes and ordinances, why that sounds like Torah.

The flesh is against the Spirit or said another way, the Torah. If you are led by the Spirit, walking out Torah, then you are not under the Torah, b/c you are not sinning.

5:25 - If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

yes, let's walk in Torah by the Spirit.


Judaizing is earning your salvation through works. I have said nor taught anything like that. Please stop such nonsense.