Ark Encounter

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Sapper Redux
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In reply to PacifistAg • 11:24a, 8/1/16
quote:
The issue isn't so much good-natured joking. There's no need for insults though. He came here to share an experience with us. Yes, you may disagree with him and others on this issue, but he came here just to share. I know this is an anonymous forum and that lends itself to crudeness some time, but I doubt you would say this stuff directly to his face if you were sharing a meal and he pulled out these pictures. No need to be like other boards here.


I guess I need to know where the line is for joking around vs insults. What can we discuss? Is discussing taking schools to see this a valid discussion point? Or are we just supposed to talk about his specific trip to the site.
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Martin Q. Blank
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 11:28a, 8/1/16

quote:
Hamm presents it as objective fact, not religious myth and it is not in context with other faiths. Public dollars should have nothing to do with this fantasy.
Public tax dollars have something to do with Greek mythology.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to Martin Q. Blank • 11:41a, 8/1/16
quote:

quote:
Hamm presents it as objective fact, not religious myth and it is not in context with other faiths. Public dollars should have nothing to do with this fantasy.
Public tax dollars have something to do with Greek mythology.


Damn! You've uncovered our pro-Zeus conspiracy!
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kurt vonnegut
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In reply to oldarmy1 • 11:41a, 8/1/16
AG
quote:
Took a trip to Nashville and then headed up to Williamstown, KY to see the new Ark Encounter. As many years as I've studied and taught on the Ark and Flood seeing a full scale version blows my mind away. Regardless of where your beliefs fall on the Genesis flood account this is a phenomenally well developed exhibit.

Also, they have 9 miles of zip line for the atheists to fall back on after they take a look.


I have to admit that the engineer in me finds this project absolutely fascinating. It is essentially built as a 500' long building on a concrete deck and about 4 levels of wood framing above that. Some construction photos show a couple big ass packaged roof top units on the structure behind the boat, but I can't determine if they serve the 'boat' area? If it were mine to design,the exhibit area would be based on a variable refrigerant system with code minimum outside air and ventilation from vertical shafts so that you can keep the ceiling's clean and high as possible. They'd already need to have fire alarm, fire sprinkler, lighting devices, egress signage as it were.

The whole myth is bonkers, but I'd want to go just to see how they built it. . .


EDIT - just noticed the semi-flush sprinkler head right above oldarmy's wife in the last picture.
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Martin Q. Blank
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 11:50a, 8/1/16
quote:
quote:

quote:
Hamm presents it as objective fact, not religious myth and it is not in context with other faiths. Public dollars should have nothing to do with this fantasy.
Public tax dollars have something to do with Greek mythology.
Damn! You've uncovered our pro-Zeus conspiracy!
What if someone built a Trojan Horse? Local schools can't take kids to see it?
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kurt vonnegut
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In reply to Martin Q. Blank • 11:58a, 8/1/16
AG
quote:
What if someone built a Trojan Horse? Local schools can't take kids to see it?

Is this someone presenting the specifics of the works of Homer as indisputable fact?
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Quad Dog
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12:05p, 8/1/16
AG
Yes, but will it float?
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Martin Q. Blank
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In reply to kurt vonnegut • 12:15p, 8/1/16
quote:
quote:
What if someone built a Trojan Horse? Local schools can't take kids to see it?
Is this someone presenting the specifics of the works of Homer as indisputable fact?
Sure. The guy who built the replica is a modern day Hellenist.
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Solo Tetherball Champ
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In reply to Martin Q. Blank • 12:15p, 8/1/16
Or a large wooden rabbit?

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747Ag
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In reply to Solo Tetherball Champ • 12:22p, 8/1/16
AG
Suppose we built a large wooden badger...
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Aggrad08
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In reply to kurt vonnegut • 12:24p, 8/1/16
AG
If I were designing it I'd use the three buildings built intergrally with the boat as the lateral system. So it's sitting on foundations and leaning on those three structures laterally. Connections in wood are rubbish and it seems they didn't feel like hiding the heavy use of steel bolts. I'd probably at least have backfilled the holes to maintain the illusion.

I'm more curious as to the foundation for the interior boat columns. Did they try to use the shell as a stable load bearing free spanning element like modern Cruz ships or just plow right through with columns (that's what I'd do).

I'd be curious if with modern technology and considerable use of steel we could keep a mostly wooden boat that size floating for a week or so in calm seas.
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Martin Q. Blank
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In reply to Aggrad08 • 12:31p, 8/1/16
quote:
like modern Cruz ships
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kurt vonnegut
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In reply to Aggrad08 • 12:55p, 8/1/16
AG
quote:
If I were designing it I'd use the three buildings built intergrally with the boat as the lateral system. So it's sitting on foundations and leaning on those three structures laterally. Connections in wood are rubbish and it seems they didn't feel like hiding the heavy use of steel bolts. I'd probably at least have backfilled the holes to maintain the illusion.

I'm more curious as to the foundation for the interior boat columns. Did they try to use the shell as a stable load bearing free spanning element like modern Cruz ships or just plow right through with columns (that's what I'd do).

I'd be curious if with modern technology and considerable use of steel we could keep a mostly wooden boat that size floating for a week or so in calm seas.

Since you are structurally savvy. . . whats with the 'V' from the vertical members down the center of the boat?
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to Martin Q. Blank • 1:11p, 8/1/16
quote:
quote:
like modern Cruz ships


That's only slightly more terrifying than a regular cruise.
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TexAgs91
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In reply to PacifistAg • 1:17p, 8/1/16
AG
quote:
quote:
They could make it double as a zoo. I wonder how many animals they can get in there?
Uh, 2 of every kind!
That's the hypothesis... let's make it a zoo and try it out!
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PacifistAg
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In reply to TexAgs91 • 1:18p, 8/1/16
AG
Perhaps the Ark was really just a TARDIS. Everyone knows they are bigger on the inside.
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TexAgs91
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In reply to [removed post] • 1:20p, 8/1/16
AG
quote:
I agree that it seems like he came here to share an interesting and relevant experience, rather than for debate. Actually, the things I've said have been attempts at being more lighthearted than I would usually be.
My filter has been in place too.
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Aggrad08
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In reply to kurt vonnegut • 1:24p, 8/1/16
AG
quote:
quote:
quote:

Since you are structurally savvy. . . whats with the 'V' from the vertical members down the center of the boat?

Cool pic. There are two Vs. The normal looking one is merely the way they architecturally formed the corridor columns as leaning, it's perfectly stable if they left them vertical. In a "real" boat, the bottom of the boat is sometimes "V" shaped or "U" shaped. I think this was there way of mimicking that sort of final construction. The upside down "V" is for lateral stability.

"V" shaped wooden boat
"U" shaped cruise ship
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TexAgs91
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In reply to Aggrad08 • 1:27p, 8/1/16
AG
quote:
If I were designing it I'd use the three buildings built intergrally with the boat as the lateral system. So it's sitting on foundations and leaning on those three structures laterally. Connections in wood are rubbish and it seems they didn't feel like hiding the heavy use of steel bolts. I'd probably at least have backfilled the holes to maintain the illusion.

I'm more curious as to the foundation for the interior boat columns. Did they try to use the shell as a stable load bearing free spanning element like modern Cruz ships or just plow right through with columns (that's what I'd do).

I'd be curious if with modern technology and considerable use of steel we could keep a mostly wooden boat that size floating for a week or so in calm seas.
I'd build it so that it can actually float in case of another global flood. I mean if you're going to actually build something like that, it wouldn't take much more to be ready for the next one.
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swimmerbabe11
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1:33p, 8/1/16
I'm just sayin that there was a thread not that long ago discussing the Ark Encounter in a analytical way. You don't need to rain on this guy's vacation. (see what I did there?)

You could just bump that thread. Or ride the 9 miles of zip line on outta here.
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kurt vonnegut
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In reply to swimmerbabe11 • 1:51p, 8/1/16
AG
quote:
You could just bump that thread. Or ride the 9 miles of zip line on outta here.
As you wish. . .

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Amazing Moves
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In reply to swimmerbabe11 • 3:19p, 8/1/16
quote:
You don't need to rain on this guy's vacation. (see what I did there?)

You could just bump that thread. Or ride the 9 miles of zip line on outta here.

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Aggrad08
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In reply to TexAgs91 • 3:35p, 8/1/16
AG
quote:
quote:
I'd build it so that it can actually float in case of another global flood. I mean if you're going to actually build something like that, it wouldn't take much more to be ready for the next one.
Nah, the rainbows told me he's not down with the wiping out all mankind thing. Although that was before rainbows switched sides and started sponsoring the gays. So maybe.
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crbongos
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9:46p, 8/1/16
AG
I'm facinated how many call the Ark story or fable. Are really that smart that you can pick and choose what part of the Bible you believe and what part you don't? As far me, if Christ died and was raised from the dead to come back to earth before assertion into heaven--then I think Noah could have made an arc, Jonah swallowed by a whale or sun move backward. Guess I'm just not intelligent enough to pick and chose what I believe in the Bible. Actually I believe it all--it's called faith.
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In reply to crbongos • 10:08p, 8/1/16
vacating FL410
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In reply to swimmerbabe11 • 10:15p, 8/1/16
quote:
I'm just sayin that there was a thread not that long ago discussing the Ark Encounter in a analytical way. You don't need to rain on this guy's vacation. (see what I did there?)

You could just bump that thread. Or ride the 9 miles of zip line on outta here.
I think that thread was deleted.
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Line up and wait 18L
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In reply to crbongos • 10:18p, 8/1/16
quote:
I'm facinated how many call the Ark story or fable. Are really that smart that you can pick and choose what part of the Bible you believe and what part you don't? As far me, if Christ died and was raised from the dead to come back to earth before assertion into heaven--then I think Noah could have made an arc, Jonah swallowed by a whale or sun move backward. Guess I'm just not intelligent enough to pick and chose what I believe in the Bible. Actually I believe it all--it's called faith.
Agreed
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to crbongos • 10:22p, 8/1/16
quote:
I'm facinated how many call the Ark story or fable. Are really that smart that you can pick and choose what part of the Bible you believe and what part you don't? As far me, if Christ died and was raised from the dead to come back to earth before assertion into heaven--then I think Noah could have made an arc, Jonah swallowed by a whale or sun move backward. Guess I'm just not intelligent enough to pick and chose what I believe in the Bible. Actually I believe it all--it's called faith.
This is what keep the board going, boys (and girl). This is what keeps it going...
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In reply to crbongos • 10:30p, 8/1/16
Martin Q. Blank
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In reply to [removed post] • 7:47a, 8/2/16

quote:
When everything we observe tells us
False. Observations don't tell you anything. They're inanimate objects. People are the ones who tell the stories.
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Aggrad08
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In reply to Martin Q. Blank • 8:31a, 8/2/16
AG
Correct, observations and reason tell us, leaving no other thoughtful alternative.
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kurt vonnegut
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In reply to crbongos • 8:57a, 8/2/16
AG
quote:
I'm facinated how many call the Ark story or fable. Are really that smart that you can pick and choose what part of the Bible you believe and what part you don't? As far me, if Christ died and was raised from the dead to come back to earth before assertion into heaven--then I think Noah could have made an arc, Jonah swallowed by a whale or sun move backward. Guess I'm just not intelligent enough to pick and chose what I believe in the Bible. Actually I believe it all--it's called faith.

At the risk of challenging the stigma associated with the atheists on this board, I would offer the following defense of the Christians here that believe that Noah's Ark was a fable.

Picking and choosing from the Bible, it seems to me, would imply a willful and intentional disregard for what the Bible says in favor of Biblical message that is more agreeable to the person. I believe that most of the Biblical non-literalists hold their views because they believe that many stories are only reasonable if accepted as a fable or as a moral story. 2000 years ago, a Biblical creation story that included a very young Earth, Adam and Eve, and a literal eating from the tree of knowledge might have been easier to swallow as literal. A reasonable human being allows himself the ability to re-evaluate and modify beliefs when new information is presented.

What about you, crbongos? Are there any passages that you pick away or choose to interpret in a manner that is not purely literal? Deuteronomy commands you to stone me to death for not worshiping your God, does it not? I presume you would take exception to that claim, but why? Is OT morality not applicable any more? Or applicable only to the Jews or to those leaving before Christ? I am glad that Christians do not stone non-believers to death, but I fail to see how a literal interpretation of Deuteronomy allows you to disregard this duty. All Christians accept some interpretation of the Bible. They accept some translation and version of the Bible. I don't mean this as criticism, I mean to suggest that it may be hypocritical to accuse other Christians of picking and choosing.

I do not think that you not intelligent enough to pick and choose what you believe. I would only question your intelligence if you have completely resigned yourself to let 'someone else' do all the thinking for you. Faith is all fine and good. A faith that cannot be questioned scares the bejesus out of me.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to Martin Q. Blank • 9:05a, 8/2/16
quote:

quote:
When everything we observe tells us
False. Observations don't tell you anything. They're inanimate objects. People are the ones who tell the stories.


It's ironic that the most ardent postmodernists left are Biblical literalists.
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BusterAg
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In reply to kurt vonnegut • 12:03p, 8/2/16
AG
Thanks Kurt. Good summary.

However, to add some more depth, I think that the art of literature has changed quite a bit over the last 5,000 years. I'm not sure that anyone in 1,000 BC would have made a solid distinction between a literal story and a story told to teach a moral. The blending of these two together would likely have been the most common form of literature.

To that end, I do believe that there was likely a very bad localized flood in the biblical region, and it was likely survived by a very spiritual man seeking God in a large boat. The similarities between Noah and Gilgamesh are striking, for example, and I have seen discussion that even non-christian lore of the supposed area tell of a really bad flood in very early history.

The telling of this tale in a way that addresses spiritual issues would likely have been a common type of literature. Setting history and fable into two distinctive buckets where neither should cross didn't really gain popularity until after many of the earliest books of the OT were written.

So, where is the line between exaggeration and myth? Did God really tell Noah to build a boat the size of the one in Kentucky full of animals? I leave the possibility open, but it doesn't make much difference to me one way or the other.
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crbongos
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2:22p, 8/2/16
AG
quote:
quote:
What about you, crbongos? Are there any passages that you pick away or choose to interpret in a manner that is not purely literal? Deuteronomy commands you to stone me to death for not worshiping your God, does it not? I presume you would take exception to that claim, but why? Is OT morality not applicable any more? Or applicable only to the Jews or to those leaving before Christ? I am glad that Christians do not stone non-believers to death, but I fail to see how a literal interpretation of Deuteronomy allows you to disregard this duty. All Christians accept some interpretation of the Bible. They accept some translation and version of the Bible. I don't mean this as criticism, I mean to suggest that it may be hypocritical to accuse other Christians of picking and choosing.

I do not think that you not intelligent enough to pick and choose what you believe. I would only question your intelligence if you have completely resigned yourself to let 'someone else' do all the thinking for you. Faith is all fine and good. A faith that cannot be questioned scares the bejesus out of me.
Kurt you bring up a good point. I certainly question what I read/understand but the end of the day my faith trumps my IQ. As far as Old Testament law, The teachings of Jesus, the Council of Jerusalem, and other New Testament teachings (John 1:16-17, Acts 13:39, Romans 2:25-29, 8:1-4, 1 Corinthians 9:19-21, Galatians 2:15-16, Ephesians 2:15) make it clear that Christians are not required to follow the Old Testament rules about crimes and punishments, warfare, slavery, diet, circumcision, animal sacrifices, feast days, Sabbath observance, ritual cleanness, etc.

Christians still look to the Old Testament scripture for moral and spiritual guidance (2 Timothy 3:16-17). But when there seems to be a conflict between Old Testament laws and New Testament principles, we must follow the New Testament because it represents the most recent and most perfect revelation from God (Hebrews 8:13, 2 Corinthians 3:1-18, Galatians 2:15-20).

Not trying to be a Bible thumper but just respectfully recite what I believe. BTW the arc photo was the first I've ever seen and I'm happy the OP opened this thread. This will be added to my bucket list!
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