Foundations Kurt doesn't care about: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3210122/Subway-Jared-s-foundation-sham-never-granted-single-grant-HALF-money-went-directly-pockets-fellow-pedophile-director.html

You are literally the only person on this thread who thinks you have been making a good point this whole time.

Your google skills do suck:

http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-snoops-part-2-infiltrate-target-harass-churches

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No sooner had the Graham organization publicized its support for the ballot initiative than the IRS came down on Graham, denying its tax exempt status, and requiring a ton of information as a prerequisite for keeping its tax exempt status.

Although Graham eventually won the day, the IRS had made its point. Any church that dares take a position contrary to the Obama administration had best beware. And most churches are small enough that tangling with the IRS for an extended period could potentially lead to the church shutting its doors for the lack of adequate funds.

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http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/christian-nation-2/irs-harrassment-of-churches-begins

Now bear in mind what we know in general also about IRS officials like Lois Lerner.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/417153/irs-helping-atheists-hassling-churches-quin-hillyer

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You are literally the only person on this thread who thinks you have been making a good point this whole time.

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That's fine. You're all wrong. You actually support using the IRS to investigate things you don't like. Is there any evidence at all the IRS will be fair? That the power won't be abused? Why are YOU woody not similarly posting threads on politics about the HRC foundation. If you have, post the link.

This is an idiotic stupid thread and a dumb issue. People are defrauded by charities all the time. ALL THE TIME. Not one of you has made a compelling case for why this is different.

Someone tried to claim it's because it preys on your guilty conscience. But all these charities do that. That's the hallmark of a bad charity--to make you feel bad for not giving.

Why should I want the IRS to come down very specifically on these guys?

Just links woody, to all the threads non religious scam charities you've addressed. If there are none, why not? Why aren't you also mad enough to start threads about them?

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Just links woody, to all the threads non religious scam charities you've addressed. If there are none, why not? Why aren't you also mad enough to start threads about them?

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I didn't start this thread, nor did I participate for long. You have an unusual tendency towards stubbornness, so I can't imagine engaging further will be fruitful. I think the Clintons are corrupt and I have said so many times on the politics board. I think Scientology should lose its tax exempt status as well because they are outright frauds just as much as Creflo "I need a $65 million jet plan" Dollar is.

Truth be known, I would prefer the tax code be completely changed so that there aren't any tax incentives towards giving to any organization. However, to act as though people cannot comment on something as disgusting and evil as prosperity gospel unless they spend equal time on any and all other scams is childish. Your only purpose is to deflect the obvious hypocrisy of the televangelists by suggesting people like Kurt and myself are hypocrites for not making you aware of our disgust for other scams or fraudulent actions.

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Just links woody, to all the threads non religious scam charities you've addressed. If there are none, why not? Why aren't you also mad enough to start threads about them?

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I didn't start this thread, nor did I participate for long. You have an unusual tendency towards stubbornness, so I can't imagine engaging further will be fruitful. I think the Clintons are corrupt and I have said so many times on the politics board. I think Scientology should lose its tax exempt status as well because they are outright frauds just as much as Creflo "I need a $65 million jet plan" Dollar is.

Truth be known, I would prefer the tax code be completely changed so that there aren't any tax incentives towards giving to any organization. However, to act as though people cannot comment on something as disgusting and evil as prosperity gospel unless they spend equal time on any and all other scams is childish. Your only purpose is to deflect the obvious hypocrisy of the televangelists by suggesting people like Kurt and myself are hypocrites for not making you aware of our disgust for other scams or fraudulent actions.

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You can comment on it. But it's fair for me to point out that the outrage is selective. Which it is. And it's fair for me to point out that the solution--the IRS--is a corrupt and incapable of acting fairly.

Why does this have you so upset?

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You can comment on it. But it's fair for me to point out that the outrage is selective. Which it is. And it's fair for me to point out that the solution--the IRS--is a corrupt and incapable of acting fairly.

Why does this have you so upset?

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I'm not upset. I was just letting you know that all you are accomplishing is appearing childish. Carry on if you must.

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You can comment on it. But it's fair for me to point out that the outrage is selective. Which it is. And it's fair for me to point out that the solution--the IRS--is a corrupt and incapable of acting fairly.

Why does this have you so upset?

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I'm not upset. I was just letting you know that all you are accomplishing is appearing childish. Carry on if you must.

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Likewise, it's childish to act super offended by this. Makes you look silly, really. Almost like you have no idea how much tax free scams are used to defraud people. So you think this is particularly bad. Only someone that was really basically totally ignorant of the extent of the problem would watch this and think a great point had been made.

That doesn't apply to you, though, does it?

I don't see how one can watch this and not be outraged.

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I don't see how one can watch this and not be outraged.

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outraged about what?

Scamming people out of tons of money...

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Scamming people out of tons of money...

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So this is in no way special then right? You'd agree with me that any special focus on religion or thinking this is worse because religion is used is wrong thinking, right?

I personally find preying on people's sense of goodness to be more despicable than preying on their ignorance. So in that way it's worse as far as I'm concerned.

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I personally find preying on people's sense of goodness to be more despicable than preying on their ignorance. So in that way it's worse as far as I'm concerned.

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Okay: Go look at that list of charities I posted above. This is, simply, what (scam) charities do. The prey on ignorance and guilt. This isn't remotely special. It's absolutely ignorant to clam otherwise.

I'm not claiming those aren't bad.

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Foundations Kurt doesn't care about: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3210122/Subway-Jared-s-foundation-sham-never-granted-single-grant-HALF-money-went-directly-pockets-fellow-pedophile-director.html

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Issues that Jacques does not care about. . . . since he has never posted about it

Why do you hate baby seals?

Did you know that there are children starving in Africa?

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That's fine. You're all wrong. You actually support using the IRS to investigate things you don't like.

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Strawman. No one in this thread has said this. This is an obvious shameful twisting of words. What is wrong with you?

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Is there any evidence at all the IRS will be fair?

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No. Who here is defending the IRS?

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That the power won't be abused? Why are YOU woody not similarly posting threads on politics about the HRC foundation. If you have, post the link.

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Why haven't you posted anything about the poor clubbed baby seals? You must hate baby seals!

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This is an idiotic stupid thread and a dumb issue. People are defrauded by charities all the time. ALL THE TIME. Not one of you has made a compelling case for why this is different.

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My position has never been that it is unique or even the worst kind of fraud. My position is that EMPATHETIC HUMANS have a right to be upset about religious frauds, and not just the religious.

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Someone tried to claim it's because it preys on your guilty conscience. But all these charities do that. That's the hallmark of a bad charity--to make you feel bad for not giving.

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But apparently I'm only allowed to find fault in the ones whose political agenda more closely matches mine???

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Why should I want the IRS to come down very specifically on these guys?

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No one is calling for the IRS to come down harder on religion - just equally.

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Did you know that there are children starving in Africa?

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You aren't African darg!!!! Only Africans are permitted to be upset about hunger in Africa. As Americans, we should only be concerned about starving Americans!

EDIT - note extreme sarcasm.

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You can comment on it. But it's fair for me to point out that the outrage is selective.

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You are right - for me, it is selective. It is selective to the tax fraud issues posted on the R&P forum. Start a thread about how Hillary's foundation is a sham and I'll come over and say that I agree.

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Foundations Kurt doesn't care about: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3210122/Subway-Jared-s-foundation-sham-never-granted-single-grant-HALF-money-went-directly-pockets-fellow-pedophile-director.html

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Issues that Jacques does not care about. . . . since he has never posted about it

Why do you hate baby seals?

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Why would I care about that? Are you under the impression I'm Canadian?

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That's fine. You're all wrong. You actually support using the IRS to investigate things you don't like.

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Strawman. No one in this thread has said this. This is an obvious shameful twisting of words. What is wrong with you?

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Is there any evidence at all the IRS will be fair?

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No. Who here is defending the IRS?

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That the power won't be abused? Why are YOU woody not similarly posting threads on politics about the HRC foundation. If you have, post the link.

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Why haven't you posted anything about the poor clubbed baby seals? You must hate baby seals!

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This is an idiotic stupid thread and a dumb issue. People are defrauded by charities all the time. ALL THE TIME. Not one of you has made a compelling case for why this is different.

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My position has never been that it is unique or even the worst kind of fraud. My position is that EMPATHETIC HUMANS have a right to be upset about religious frauds, and not just the religious.

quote:

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Someone tried to claim it's because it preys on your guilty conscience. But all these charities do that. That's the hallmark of a bad charity--to make you feel bad for not giving.

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But apparently I'm only allowed to find fault in the ones whose political agenda more closely matches mine???

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Why should I want the IRS to come down very specifically on these guys?

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No one is calling for the IRS to come down harder on religion - just equally.

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Where is the evidence it's unequal? I posted a link of scams. Is the IRS just crushing those guys?

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You can comment on it. But it's fair for me to point out that the outrage is selective.

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You are right - for me, it is selective. It is selective to the tax fraud issues posted on the R&P forum. Start a thread about how Hillary's foundation is a sham and I'll come over and say that I agree.

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What would that prove? Didn't you earlier claim you'd googled it and found no suggestion of the govt harassing churches?

Isn't there like, a history, of the FBI going after MLK?

Since you're not defending the IRS, Kurt, who do you suggest we give authority to to investigate and enforce this?

Btw did anyone condemn even on this thread, the scam charities I linked to?

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Lots of cancer, police and firefighter charities on this list:

http://www.tampabay.com/americas-worst-charities/

It's actually hard to do a great analysis though because so few provide audited statements.

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Even on this thread, no one cared enough to say wow, those charities are awful. But I'm supposed to believe you really care about this? Pull the other leg.

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Your google skills do suck:

http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-snoops-part-2-infiltrate-target-harass-churches

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I like this part of the linked article:

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Speaking on condition of anonymity

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None of the information provided by these sources could be verified, however, given that the entire operation was top secret. But in light of recent disclosures of massive government snooping into the lives of multimillions of American citizens, the program to eavesdrop on churches is not difficult to believe or accept.

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This article is rank with Obama hate and bias. It is clearly an opinion piece which offers no evidence. I am open to their actually being evidence - but don't give me this garbage. Give me statistics showing how often 'legit' churches are audited compared to other non-profits. How often are tax exempt statuses revoked?


From the nationalreview article: If there are some documents that the IRS is required to release, then yes, they should absolutely to be held accountable. Lets not pretend what that is what the article is about:

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So the IRS, acting with the whole power of government behind it, seems to be saying it can monitor and presumably punish churches for the content of their sermons

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YES!!!!!! Thats the whole F*&()$#% ing point!!!! Any organization that claims 501c3 tax exemption is subject to removal of its exceptions if they do not meet the rules!

Perhaps a relevant question at this point is this: Do you feel that churches should be permitted to actively lobby for particular political positions, candidates, laws, etc. and simultaneously keep their tax exempt status?

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What would that prove? Didn't you earlier claim you'd googled it and found no suggestion of the govt harassing churches?

Isn't there like, a history, of the FBI going after MLK?

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I found no evidence of a systematic oppression of religion with the IRS as the instrument of oppression. What does the FBI and MLK have to do with anything. None of his religious stands were remarkable - he was an enormously influential political figure.

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Why would I care about that? Are you under the impression I'm Canadian?

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I was under the impression, perhaps foolishly, that you would care about the senseless slaughter of 500,000 seals.

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Lots of cancer, police and firefighter charities on this list:

http://www.tampabay.com/americas-worst-charities/

It's actually hard to do a great analysis though because so few provide audited statements.

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Even on this thread, no one cared enough to say wow, those charities are awful. But I'm supposed to believe you really care about this? Pull the other leg.

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Okay: Those charities are awful. What does that resolve. Am I now permitted by King Jacques to have an opinion on religious fraud?

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quote:

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Lots of cancer, police and firefighter charities on this list:

http://www.tampabay.com/americas-worst-charities/

It's actually hard to do a great analysis though because so few provide audited statements.

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Even on this thread, no one cared enough to say wow, those charities are awful. But I'm supposed to believe you really care about this? Pull the other leg.

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Okay: Those charities are awful. What does that resolve. Am I now permitted by King Jacques to have an opinion on religious fraud?

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So you care a lot. But I have to actually prompt you to condemn it? Wth?

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Why would I care about that? Are you under the impression I'm Canadian?

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I was under the impression, perhaps foolishly, that you would care about the senseless slaughter of 500,000 seals.

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What am I supposed to do about it?

And really, how pathetic of you. This is a totally unrelated issue. Why would I be posting about it here? Confronted with other scam charities on this very thread, you just shrugged your shoulders. BECAUSE YOU DO NOT CARE.

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What would that prove? Didn't you earlier claim you'd googled it and found no suggestion of the govt harassing churches?

Isn't there like, a history, of the FBI going after MLK?

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I found no evidence of a systematic oppression of religion with the IRS as the instrument of oppression. What does the FBI and MLK have to do with anything. None of his religious stands were remarkable - he was an enormously influential political figure.

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So you don't care if power is abused here and there as long as it's not "systematic"?

I'd say the harassment of a major religious and political figure is pretty damn good evidence of the extent to which the IRS will let itself be drawn to abusive conduct.

And I think you're now defending the IRS.

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Your google skills do suck:

http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-snoops-part-2-infiltrate-target-harass-churches

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I like this part of the linked article:

quote:

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Speaking on condition of anonymity

---

quote:

---

None of the information provided by these sources could be verified, however, given that the entire operation was top secret. But in light of recent disclosures of massive government snooping into the lives of multimillions of American citizens, the program to eavesdrop on churches is not difficult to believe or accept.

---

This article is rank with Obama hate and bias. It is clearly an opinion piece which offers no evidence. I am open to their actually being evidence - but don't give me this garbage. Give me statistics showing how often 'legit' churches are audited compared to other non-profits. How often are tax exempt statuses revoked?


From the nationalreview article: If there are some documents that the IRS is required to release, then yes, they should absolutely to be held accountable. Lets not pretend what that is what the article is about:

quote:

---

So the IRS, acting with the whole power of government behind it, seems to be saying it can monitor and presumably punish churches for the content of their sermons

---

YES!!!!!! Thats the whole F*&()$#% ing point!!!! Any organization that claims 501c3 tax exemption is subject to removal of its exceptions if they do not meet the rules!

Perhaps a relevant question at this point is this: Do you feel that churches should be permitted to actively lobby for particular political positions, candidates, laws, etc. and simultaneously keep their tax exempt status?

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So you're in favor of the IRS investigating churches for an anti abortion message, for example? An anti gay message?

No wonder you don't see abuse!

And hey! I think you ARE defending the IRS, which you said you were NOT doing. You're a very honest person!