You don't get it, you have yet to offer any logical reason for God requiring that only men lead the household and only men lead the church. None. The only logical reason for such an arrangement would be if women are mentally incapable of such positions. You admit that's not the case. So give me a logical reason for a sexist division of authority.

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What sort of mental illness has "thinks 1/3 of the world's population is schizophrenic" as a symptom? Or are you just being a condescending twerp?

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No, not at all. Just the people who claim to be in direct audible communication with a ghost/magic/god/person living inside their head.

Do you actually think booboo heard a magical/invisible god whisper in english to him?

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I think it's certainly possible. I've never heard a voice but I've experienced supernatural occurrences without exhibiting any other symptoms of mental illness, as I'm sure a large majority of Christians have. I'm sure you'll attribute the "supernatural" to endorphin release or sensory overload or something scientific, so it hardly matters.

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You sound bitter that as the centuries go by science explains how the world works and the answer is never a magical/invisible god.

I don't think any god has ever "whispered" to any human being. Pure delusion. And how convenient that the god that whispered in booboo's ear told him what he wanted to hear. Just a nice pat on the head and a bone for a good dog. No questioning of booboo's sins. No orders to change his life or to take an action. Just 'hey booboo i'm god whispering in your ear that you are doing a totally great job with your life'. LOL

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That's booboo's story, mine is different. I'd spent all the money my parents had given me to buy my Aggie Ring on gambling and a prostitute in Lake Charles, Louisiana. A friend had dragged me to mass (which I hadn't been to since the first week of FOW as a fish 4 years prior). I was in Mass after having received communion (which I shouldn't have taken but didn't realize at the time) when I saw literal scales fall from my eyes and it had the visual effect one has when one forgets their wearing sunglasses until they take them off. I drove home and my mom and dad were waiting for me (I hadn't been home in 4 months despite living 30 minutes away) at the garage even though I hadn't called them to tell them I was coming. We had a talk, and I changed my life after that. A few years later I went on my first ACTS retreat mentioned above and really caught fire with love for God and the Catholic church.

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You don't get it, you have yet to offer any logical reason for God requiring that only men lead the household and only men lead the church. None. The only logical reason for such an arrangement would be if women are mentally incapable of such positions. You admit that's not the case. So give me a logical reason for a sexist division of authority.

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Because God, who is all all knowing, all powerful, and who IS did it that way. End of story.

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You don't get it, you have yet to offer any logical reason for God requiring that only men lead the household and only men lead the church. None. The only logical reason for such an arrangement would be if women are mentally incapable of such positions. You admit that's not the case. So give me a logical reason for a sexist division of authority.

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Because God, who is all all knowing, all powerful, and who IS did it that way. End of story.

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It sounds like you have a different mental delusion than booboo but you definitely still have mental problems. You need to come to terms with the fact that YOU made the decisions that you did and that there was no outside invisible godlike influence. Maybe you didn't like the way that you were living? You felt guilty about the decisions that you were making and decided to make a change? You were disgusted with yourself and you made a change for the better. No god had anything to do with it - it was all you!

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Do the adages "that's a man's job" or "women and children first" in a disaster situation still apply today?

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You don't get it, you have yet to offer any logical reason for God requiring that only men lead the household and only men lead the church. None. The only logical reason for such an arrangement would be if women are mentally incapable of such positions. You admit that's not the case. So give me a logical reason for a sexist division of authority.

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Woman was made from man, not the other way around. She is also made for man and a helper to him and so subject to his authority, like the body is to the head.

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WHY are women forbidden from being the head in your analogy? Why is that somehow just or liberating to be denied even the opportunity because of an accident of birth?

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Both men and women are prohibited from being the head. Christ is the head of the body.

And [Jesus] is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.

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Great, not my point. Why are women forbidden from positions of temporal authority?

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You have to use the right terms in this discussion because they are important.

We aren't the head because Christ is the head. It isn't about us. It is about God. When we see that it is to the glory of God, not our own glory, our personal desires to be in charge deflate and the Spirit fills us with the desire to be servants of others, just like Christ.

God created male and female and we are created differently. Even within the sexes, we are different. Our diversity is a beautiful thing. God created us with different abilities and we are to use those abilities for his glory.

It isn't about your role, it is about Jesus' role.

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You don't get it, you have yet to offer any logical reason for God requiring that only men lead the household and only men lead the church. None. The only logical reason for such an arrangement would be if women are mentally incapable of such positions. You admit that's not the case. So give me a logical reason for a sexist division of authority.

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Because God, who is all all knowing, all powerful, and who IS did it that way. End of story.

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It sounds like you have a different mental delusion than booboo but you definitely still have mental problems. You need to come to terms with the fact that YOU made the decisions that you did and that there was no outside invisible godlike influence. Maybe you didn't like the way that you were living? You felt guilty about the decisions that you were making and decided to make a change? You were disgusted with yourself and you made a change for the better. No god had anything to do with it - it was all you!

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So again, what is the diagnosis of a person who claims that 1/3 of the world' population suffers from mental problems, because I can tell you, most Christians have a "supernatural" experience that they don't attribute to any sort of idiosyncratic bodily function. You are correct, I didn't like the way I'd been living, I was driving my self sick with anguish over my lifestyle, and had done nothing about it for 3 years. My God had everything to do with it, but again, as I've said, we don't need to argue about it. I'm comfortable in my knowledge that my "mental illness" led to a positive change in my life, and that when your time comes, you'll know I was right.

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You don't get it, you have yet to offer any logical reason for God requiring that only men lead the household and only men lead the church. None. The only logical reason for such an arrangement would be if women are mentally incapable of such positions. You admit that's not the case. So give me a logical reason for a sexist division of authority.

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Because God, who is all all knowing, all powerful, and who IS did it that way. End of story.

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It sounds like you have a different mental delusion than booboo but you definitely still have mental problems. You need to come to terms with the fact that YOU made the decisions that you did and that there was no outside invisible godlike influence. Maybe you didn't like the way that you were living? You felt guilty about the decisions that you were making and decided to make a change? You were disgusted with yourself and you made a change for the better. No god had anything to do with it - it was all you!

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So again, what is the diagnosis of a person who claims that 1/3 of the world' population suffers from mental problems, because I can tell you, most Christians have a "supernatural" experience that they don't attribute to any sort of idiosyncratic bodily function. You are correct, I didn't like the way I'd been living, I was driving my self sick with anguish over my lifestyle, and had done nothing about it for 3 years. My God had everything to do with it, but again, as I've said, we don't need to argue about it. I'm comfortable in my knowledge that my "mental illness" led to a positive change in my life, and that when your time comes, you'll know I was right.

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I am claiming that the people who say that they have been directly contacted by god are victims of mental delusion. I am not claiming that all religious people are victims of mental delusion - they are most likely the victims of their culture and upbringing. If you would spend the time to study christianity like I have you would know that the majority of christians do NOT claim to have had a supernatural experience. The christians telling other christians that they have been personally spoken to by god are the ones who may be suffering from schizophrenia or another mental delusion. I have a lot more compassion for the followers. I have less compassion for the leaders. Lies are lies.

You write that "most" christians have a supernatural experience but in reality only around 1/4 do:

"Poll numbers show that more Americans are experiencing God through personal relationships. The Pew Foundation found that nearly a quarter of Americans are what they call "renewalist" Christians, which means they have an interactive sense of God's presence. Another study cited by Luhrmann found that 26 percent of all Americans say they have been given a direct revelation from God."

http://www.npr.org/2012/03/26/149394987/when-god-talks-back-to-the-evangelical-community

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You don't get it, you have yet to offer any logical reason for God requiring that only men lead the household and only men lead the church. None. The only logical reason for such an arrangement would be if women are mentally incapable of such positions. You admit that's not the case. So give me a logical reason for a sexist division of authority.

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Because God, who is all all knowing, all powerful, and who IS did it that way. End of story.

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Great. Now stop pretending that there is any equality of the genders in Christianity. Women are secondary to men in authority. Because God said so.

So why were women created as subordinate and how is that just?

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You don't get it, you have yet to offer any logical reason for God requiring that only men lead the household and only men lead the church. None. The only logical reason for such an arrangement would be if women are mentally incapable of such positions. You admit that's not the case. So give me a logical reason for a sexist division of authority.

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Woman was made from man, not the other way around. She is also made for man and a helper to him and so subject to his authority, like the body is to the head.

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Not logical. Just because. Gender discrimination comes from God because God said so. Brilliant.

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So why were women created as subordinate and how is that just?

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How is it just that I can't play basketball? How is it just that I am short?

Being subordinate isn't slavery. The husband is to love his wife just as he loves his own body. Doesn't sound like slavery. Would you rather he dominate over her like a slave driver?

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I'd spent all the money my parents had given me to buy my Aggie Ring on gambling and a prostitute in Lake Charles, Louisiana. A friend had dragged me to mass (which I hadn't been to since the first week of FOW as a fish 4 years prior). I was in Mass after having received communion (which I shouldn't have taken but didn't realize at the time) when I saw literal scales fall from my eyes and it had the visual effect one has when one forgets their wearing sunglasses until they take them off.

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Did you save any of these scales for analysis?

By chance did you feel terrible about the silly mistake you had made and were you unhappy about the path you'd been on and perhaps were looking for a reason to change your life?

People very commonly find excuses to change their life when they are unhappy. People from all walks of faith and the faithless have stories why they changed. It's not uncommon to hear extraordinary claims and it's not uncommon for people to convince themselves such stories are real.

Also is it possible your parents, like countless families, were outside doing yard work or working in the garage when you came home? At my house there is about a 70% chance that if you drive up during daylight on Sunday I will be in the garage or front yard.

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So why were women created as subordinate and how is that just?

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How is it just that I can't play basketball? How is it just that I am short?

Being subordinate isn't slavery. The husband is to love his wife just as he loves his own body. Doesn't sound like slavery. Would you rather he dominate over her like a slave driver?

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Subordinate = subordinate. As in not equal. As in secondary and subsidiary. As in of lesser importance. As in, marry you to your rapist or the brother of your dead husband because you are designed to give men what they want and increase property holdings. Because you were created second and are cursed to be beneath man because you listened to a talking snake. Because Paul told you to shut up in church and listen submissively to your husbands.

FREEDOM!!!!!

[url=http://biblehub.com/1_kings/11-2.htm][/url] 1 Kings 11:3 [url=http://biblehub.com/1_kings/11-4.htm][/url]
New International Version
He had seven hundred wives of royal birth and three hundred concubines, and his wives led him astray.

Solomon had a thousand women! That was a ratio of 1:1000. And his wives led him astray... just like Eve did.

I believe the bible is clear that women are to be obedient to men within the confines of marriage/family.

The catholic church did not allow women to be in positions of leadership. I think the implication is clear that women are to be seen and not heard.

Why?

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You don't get it, you have yet to offer any logical reason for God requiring that only men lead the household and only men lead the church. None. The only logical reason for such an arrangement would be if women are mentally incapable of such positions. You admit that's not the case. So give me a logical reason for a sexist division of authority.

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Woman was made from man, not the other way around. She is also made for man and a helper to him and so subject to his authority, like the body is to the head.

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Not logical. Just because. Gender discrimination comes from God because God said so. Brilliant.

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Why is my answer not logical? I suppose I shouldn't be surprised you don't like the way God ordered things, but I think my answer is reasonable to your request for a Christian perspective.

There's no logic in assuming women must be held in an inferior position because they were made second. Why are men superior? Beyond being made first, why are men supposed to be in charge?

The way I described it when I was an avid believer was that it wasn't about "superiority" it was about roles meant to play in the family and society. You could look at it that men were superior for getting to be the "head" of the house or church, or you could look at it as women being superior because they get to create life with their bodies.

As I said, other than being made from man, woman was made for him to be a helper.

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You don't get it, you have yet to offer any logical reason for God requiring that only men lead the household and only men lead the church. None. The only logical reason for such an arrangement would be if women are mentally incapable of such positions. You admit that's not the case. So give me a logical reason for a sexist division of authority.

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Because God, who is all all knowing, all powerful, and who IS did it that way. End of story.

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It sounds like you have a different mental delusion than booboo but you definitely still have mental problems. You need to come to terms with the fact that YOU made the decisions that you did and that there was no outside invisible godlike influence. Maybe you didn't like the way that you were living? You felt guilty about the decisions that you were making and decided to make a change? You were disgusted with yourself and you made a change for the better. No god had anything to do with it - it was all you!

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So again, what is the diagnosis of a person who claims that 1/3 of the world' population suffers from mental problems, because I can tell you, most Christians have a "supernatural" experience that they don't attribute to any sort of idiosyncratic bodily function. You are correct, I didn't like the way I'd been living, I was driving my self sick with anguish over my lifestyle, and had done nothing about it for 3 years. My God had everything to do with it, but again, as I've said, we don't need to argue about it. I'm comfortable in my knowledge that my "mental illness" led to a positive change in my life, and that when your time comes, you'll know I was right.

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I am claiming that the people who say that they have been directly contacted by god are victims of mental delusion. I am not claiming that all religious people are victims of mental delusion - they are most likely the victims of their culture and upbringing. If you would spend the time to study christianity like I have you would know that the majority of christians do NOT claim to have had a supernatural experience. The christians telling other christians that they have been personally spoken to by god are the ones who may be suffering from schizophrenia or another mental delusion. I have a lot more compassion for the followers. I have less compassion for the leaders. Lies are lies.

You write that "most" christians have a supernatural experience but in reality only around 1/4 do:

"Poll numbers show that more Americans are experiencing God through personal relationships. The Pew Foundation found that nearly a quarter of Americans are what they call "renewalist" Christians, which means they have an interactive sense of God's presence. Another study cited by Luhrmann found that 26 percent of all Americans say they have been given a direct revelation from God."

http://www.npr.org/2012/03/26/149394987/when-god-talks-back-to-the-evangelical-community

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I'm not talking about a relationship where I audibly hear God talking to me in a voice, all the time. I'm talking a super-natural experience that happens once or twice IN A LIFETIME. If you can provide the unsourced study cited by Luhrmann I'll certainly look it over, but I've got some preconceived notions that it's a load of BS.

You have absolutely zero clue about my knowledge of Christianity, one of the biggest beefs with modern Christians is how they berate and talk down to others while evangelizing. I'm not sure I'd label what you're doing as evangelizing but it's certainly condescending.

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As I said, other than being made from man, woman was made for him to be a helper.

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Never strikes you to be awfully convenient for the men who wrote those words?

No there's no chance, they weren't doing yard work, they weren't cleaning the garage, they were standing outside waiting for me. You can ridicule me and laugh at me all you want, and I don't mind. Again, I have the luxury of knowing one day that the truth will be revealed for all to see. The smarmy "know it all" atheist is not some new gimmick to make me shed my faith so quickly.

It's called confirmation bias.

I used to do it all the time. I used to swear I knew for a fact that Jesus was real because of the crazy things I've experienced in my life and my relationship with him.

But the truth of the matter is, even if on the off chance that something beyond our understanding occurred, such as your parents feeling something telling them to go outside and wait for you, it does nothing at all to prove anything about the existence of Jesus or anything in the Bible.

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As I said, other than being made from man, woman was made for him to be a helper.

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According to her own free will of course, right? I mean. . . God pre-determined the role she was supposed to play after consulting her of course.

Sounds like women are given free will to make their own decisions as long as their decision is to fullfill the role she was given.

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As I said, other than being made from man, woman was made for him to be a helper.

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So they were designed slaves?

I'm not claiming it does, I told my personal anecdote because LHoward was acting like it was insane for someone like BooBoo to have a supernatural religious experience, when I don't think it's that out of the ordinary.

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As I said, other than being made from man, woman was made for him to be a helper.

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So they were designed slaves?

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so you're pro slavery?

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As I said, other than being made from man, woman was made for him to be a helper.

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So they were designed slaves?

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Is this what you call logic? That may be our disconnect.

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As I said, other than being made from man, woman was made for him to be a helper.

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So they were designed slaves?

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so you're pro slavery?

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backwards. . . Sapper was suggesting God was pro slavery for designing women to be slaves.

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As I said, other than being made from man, woman was made for him to be a helper.

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So they were designed slaves?

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Is this what you call logic? That may be our disconnect.

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They were created to be subordinate to man and to help him. Hardly free will or equality. They are secondary by design.

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As I said, other than being made from man, woman was made for him to be a helper.

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So they were designed slaves?

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He brings up a good point, should we mandate that Hamburger Helper be changed to Hamburger Slave?

How is that a slave though?

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How is that a slave though?

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Would you prefer indentured servant?