Third Party concept, gee thanks no.

Ross Perot gave us Bill Clinton. I don't want to see the wicked witch there.

We are not a Parliamentary system where third parties are viable. The rank and file structure of each party is invaluable in big costly elections.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Party_%28Utah%29

Interesting historical tidbit.

Of particular interest is how at the dissolution of the "People's Party," the LDS church basically directed people to Dem or GOP, and the people consented.

[This message has been edited by Fightin TX Aggie (edited 2/6/2008 1:28p).]

Fifty fifty. It was interesting but a requirement for statehood that it be disbanded.

The gradual love of government intervention by the Democratic Party distanced many Mormons from that party, after all the persecution and abuse the organization suffered at the hands of government. Mormons are inherently distrustful of government, except for the IBM types who want to work for the FBI.

-They could always try to establish their own independent republic somewhere if they think it's that bad. That would be an interesting concept.--

yes, there blood atonement and plural marriage would be legal! woo hoo

Romney comes across as a slimy flip flopper...that'd be there if he was a Jew, evangelical, or Hindu.

If it's in Tahiti, I'm all for it.

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Then you do not understand pre-millennialism and more than Derrida understands evangelicalism. Hint: It goes beyond Hagee.

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Actually, I do. I researched it probably starting before you were born. But, I guess I pushed a sensitive button though.

Derrida,

Why would you have a VP that is good on economics.

McCain will probably have Phil Gramm as an advisor in his administration. Gramm is a much better macroeconomic mind than Romney.

I guess McCain could also ask Steve Forbes for help, I hear he has been a pretty good businessman.

Does McCain have a working relationship with Steve Forbes?

Gramm is a former Senator, worked on finance, I know but so what?

We need somebody to balance out the ticket, but I don't have a brilliant move right now. My guess is he'll select Crist. Not certain if that balances the ticket enough. A perfect fit would be a Western or Northeastern woman or ethnic minority, but we don't have too many high profile persons who fit those descriptions.

He has a difficult choice and I don't see any strokes of genius just yet. Huck will be the death knell.

I think it is just as dumb to vote for someone solely because of their stated religion as it is to not vote for someone solely because of their stated religion. California has a lot of Mormons but they are still only a very small percentage of the overall population. I also agree that McCain is going to dump Huckabee as soon as his usefulness is finished.

On an issues level, Romney has his pluses and minuses, and I can sympathize with anyone not wanting to vote for him due to a disagreement over issues, doubt about experience level or concerns about flip-flopping. However, I think this board mirrors a lot of the sentiments of hostility and sometimes outright hate for the LDS faith which is sometimes very difficult to distinguish from hostility towards LDS members.

I think the issues alluded to by mikewaters of a Republican "betrayal" isn't so much a political backstabbing as it is a general indicator of the conflict going on within the Republican party between the predominantly evangelical "values" conservatives who place primacy on issues like abortion (and making sure there's a godfearing President who's nominally othodox) and the fiscal, but more secular wing of the party. I also think there was just a lot of pragmatism trying to elect the guy who is perceived to have the greatest electability in the general race. But there is no doubt that there is a significant amount of hostility towards the LDS faith especially among the southern states.

IMO Colin Powell might be a nice fit for McCain's political bent and style. As for Phil Gramm... we can always use more Aggies in office, right?

Realistically, though, I think McCain and whoever he picks is going to end up being Bob Dole the sequel.

[This message has been edited by groove (edited 2/6/2008 6:16p).]

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Gramm is a former Senator, worked on finance, I know but so what?

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And has a PhD in Economics.

What has he done in real practice? Has he worked on Wall Street, worked with London markets?

Obviously Republicans listen to him, and he has qualifications. Being an Aggie makes him favorable here, but we've had a lot of Gramm throughout the years. Generally I've been favorably disposed to him, as he has conservative credentials.

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What has he done in real practice? Has he worked on Wall Street, worked with London markets?

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Why the Phil Gramm hate now?


First you completely minimize his qualifications, now this.

He has a PhD in Economics from UGA.
He was a partner in a Economics Consulting Firm.
He was a professor of Economics at TAMU for 12 years.
He was on the Senate Budget Committee from 89-03.
He reformed Banking from Depression Era laws with the Gramm Act.
He is ViceChairman of UBS Investment Bank.

What do you want? Ranger School?


And he is McCain's Economic Advisor.

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McCain is going to dump Huckabee as soon as his usefulness is finished.

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1. I don't think Huckabee cares.

2. Why would you LDS'ers quit now? Your flip flopper is the darling of Hannity and Rush who have both been actively giving the finger to the Huckabee evangelicals who think your religion is a cult for several weeks. You own the Republican media echo chamber so why quit now? Just run a better candidate next time. hth

typo

[This message has been edited by 12th Non-Reg (edited 2/6/2008 7:08p).]

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Actually, I do. I researched it probably starting before you were born. But, I guess I pushed a sensitive button though.

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Isaac Watts researched it before you were born. Do you have a point?

Please explain how I as a pre-millennialist would be untrustworthy - say, moreso than a Presbyterian (I have been a member of 2 Presbyterian churches, BTW).

No buttons have been pushed. I just want to help relieve your ignorance, in the hopes you would not be so "uneasy." K?

Oh, many Presbyterians are pre-mill - James Boice, for example. Reformed Baptists such as John Macarthur. Really, flesh out your point a little. I'm just not understanding. Share your voluminous research, please.

What is your denomination, btw?

btw, vineyard.

Israel is a country to me. And important one because in the area it is the only one that is a democracy.

It is not the country of God's chosen people. We do not have a biblical mandate to always side with them. Whether we help, leave alone, or help others against them, might be politically unwise, but it has nothing to do with God's blessing based on scripture.

Many were uncomfortable with Carter for the same reason, and he had not even come out and clearly stated he was pre-mill. Just being Baptist most assumed he was.

And, as stated before, sarcasm is a powerful tool, but a poor argument. And your tone does suggest you speak from the position of a "pushed button."

[This message has been edited by The Lone Stranger (edited 2/7/2008 6:11a).]

[This message has been edited by The Lone Stranger (edited 2/7/2008 6:12a).]

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Israel is a country to me. And important one because in the area it is the only one that is a democracy.

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I've made the exact same point in other threads, just not this one. Support for Israel is good because they are the only democracy in the region. Apparently the PCUSA doesn't get this.

Yet, I can't ignore the prophecies about an ingathering of the Jewish people. However, I also see the re-institution of the OT sacrifices as the continued DISOBEDIENCE of Israel. So, they have moved back to their homeland, but in trying to re-establish the old covenant, they continue in their open rebellion against God. Christians should not support them in this. Some do. They are wrong.

I am a pre-millennialist.

Isn't the Vineyard Church pre-millennial?

Vineyard believes in the return of Christ. The specifics are left up to both the individual believers and the churches themselves.

The one that I go to in Sugar Land, Texas doesn't have an official church stance, but the pastor is anything but pre-mill.

Okay, thanks. Because the Calvary Chapel teachers I've heard on the radio are strongly pre-mill.

mikewaters,
I think you have missinterpreted the Republican primary. The republican party has abandoned its conservatives.... especially its social conservatives. The only way for the republican party to find itself once again is to NOT vote. McCain is a democrat circa 1990 and the democrat party is really the socialist party.

The only way for the republican party to hear the voice of conservatives is NOT to vote. In the short term, the socialists will win. In the long term, the voice of conservatives would NEVER be ignored again.

OUR voices are being ignored. Its time for new leadership in the RNC. By not voting, you are heard in the RNC.