leknerd2004 is correct. Freeclimbing on stack was only done after construction was complete, and it was only done by the greys - no more dangerous than getting on the roof of a two story house.

During construction, the only people off the ground were the four swing men, who had a safety harness and secondary safety line in the event their main swing line failed.

Also when dorm logs were put up noone was really allowed to get right up close to stack as a safety precaution.

All good suggestions.

The only thing I really saw that seemed to arise out of neglegence or ignorance (as oposed to misjudgement or mistake) was not lighting the area from the bus drop off to the burn area. Even if we had to rent another generator, it should have been done.

I went up on stack a couple of times to check to see if the cross ties were under excessive compression. They weren't. And so did the blue/browns to top logs and to put the outhouse up. And Mills the grey/blue/brown whatever he was.

It doesn't matter what color Mills' pot was, he was a complete bad ass.

Guys I'm sorry, but I just don't think you get it. I'm hearing "except for the 4 guys on swings" and except for this and except for that. I certainly appreciate the efforts made to create a safer design, but I just don't think that's enough. That in and of itself will never convince the "public" that we now have a safe bonfire. People thought the last one was safe.

I think you have to have clear and fundamental differences in the way the stack is built to ever have anyone in an official capacity take it seriously (if they ever will). A safer design is certainly a must, but I think you have to go further and be able to make the statement that NO ONE is ever on top of the stack that is not attached to an independent structure (i.e. crane). The safety harnesses are still attached to the centerpole correct? How is that any different than the one that fell? Unless the centerpole is steel, can you absolutely guarantee that it has no internal flaws or weaknesses and it's impossible that it would ever fail? I don't think you can. The safety harnesses are only protecting people from falling off the stack, it will do nothing in the event the stack falls, as that has already been proven.

I don't mean to be preachy, but again, I just think you HAVE to be able to make the statement that no one will ever again be on top of the bonfire stack that isn't safely harnessed to some other independent structure. If you can't unequivocally make that statement, then all the safety talk in the world will fall on deaf ears.

This is an unbelievable responsibility you guys are undertaking and there is zero margin for error. No one can EVER get hurt building bonfire again and since it's still built by 18 year olds and made of wood, well...

Am I the only one that thinks this way???

1) The people in swings were also harnessed to the free standing windlesticks away from centerpole.

2) I'm not sure if you've caught this or not, but the design this year was inherently different. Every log touched the ground, and logs of different height made the appearance of four free-standing tiers. That is a very, very clear and fundamental difference that makes ALL of the difference in the world. Also, the cable wraps which were not used in '99 were used extensively on this. Also, there were 5 different logs that bore the stress of the structure, not just one centerpole. These outside logs were also buried into the ground like centerpole. One of these logs is still standing today, even after the fire and everything else. The Greys "tried" to take it down today for safety reasons, but it's going to have to be chopped/chainsawed down because it won't budge. All of that AFTER a huge fire.

3) The design was signed/stamped by a Professional Engineer who also monitored construction.

I don't think the organization has the money to re-invent the wheel quite yet.

I've always liked the completely steel centerpole idea as a non-engineering type, but I have no clue as to a) cost-effectiveness or b) feasibility.

Also, the 1999 Commission report cited a number of physical factors as to the collapse of Bonfire, and each area they cited was addressed and fixed.

[This message has been edited by Bonfire03 (edited 11/24/2003 11:38p).]

AGxellence91 - A PE designed this structure and, even with a wooden centerpole and support poles, there were HUGE tolerances. When constructed according to plan, this stack design simply will not fall unless massive, unnatural outside forces act on it. I'm sure WillD would be happy to explain if you have specific questions.

By the way, do you ever get on the roof of your wooden house without a safety line tied to your neighbor's house or a nearby utility pole?

[This message has been edited by Keegan99 (edited 11/25/2003 12:36a).]

The biggest thing I saw outside of some things already mentioned was concessions. They were advertised, but the one little booth that was set up on the main side ran out of drinks before stack even burned. I know that none of my group thought far enough ahead to bring drinks of our own (figured a cooler would be shady in light of the no alchohol tolerance), and since we showed up a good hour before the scheduled burn time, by the time the fire was actually lit we were dying of thirst. Eventually we found people selling drinks and stuff on the other side. They were behind a barbed wire fence, not sure if they were supposed to be there or not. Either way, there needs to be much more water.

Alumni band. I'll kick in some real money for expenses. Redoak_98@msn.com.

Just a small suggestion - I'd like to see better directions on the website.

I drove up from Houston and checked the website before I left for parking/site locations, but didn't find anything. The only thing that I saw was a notice to head out Hwy21 and look for signs. When we got out of our car after parking in a pasture by HRH, we had no idea where the actual Bonfire site was. We went to HRH and talked to a couple of guys and got general directions, but didn't realize the distance until we were well into the walk.

I'm not complaining - I realize things will improve, but this is one thing I would like to see. It would definitely help people like me that have not been to the Bonfire site beforehand.

I'll even be more than happy to create a map/overview myself. Heck, I'll rent a plane and get some aerial shots if you want them...

email me if I can help with anything (email in profile)

keep these suggestions coming (especially the website). We want next years to run much more smoothly.

lemme run through some thoughts i have concerning the suggestions made

the band we thought of, we posted a request on the website (which isn't well organized frankly) for former memebers to email us and recieved a few replies of people willing to play, but we didn't have the personnel to run down former bandsmen/women (much less the personnel to have a "logistics team" the people we had running things were doing 90 to nothing since the summer trying to secure everything we needed to cover the basics.

we need more participation next year from people willing do things like this, not people saying sure i'll help, sign up to to a job then never show face again.

the ideas like, have 3 lines for people returning home was thought of, but the security people we had didn't organize the people into the lines like we asked them, and my wife wasn't about to come back after we lit Bonfire to make sure it happened.

as far as the concessions, bonfire is round, there was no "main" side. there were as many if not more people on the south side as there were on the north. i'm not sure why it was confusing as to where people could stand or not stand, perhaps we should have had signs or something of the sort directing visitor traffic. the people running the concessions were told how many people we expected and were responsible for bringing inventory to meet demand. it is both our loss, their loss, and yours for the lack of drinks available on the north side.

the only way to have people completely off stack during its construction is oodles of money for things like scaffolding or crane rental etc. the design we employed was intended to hold with a safety factor if we only stacked on ONE quarter of stack. the point is the saftey factor as far as calculations were exceedingly greater than neccessary.

the directions page on the website has links to online map generators with the addresses pre-proggramed in. if you would have found this map it should have been much easier than get to CS, look for signs. but again, the web page is not organized intuitivley so this could use some work.

as far as charging a discount price for students/children and "the money would be made back in future years yadda yadda"... that sounds nice, but when its our personal money invested we don't really have the option to hold debt for that long. some of the students involved this year and last have or had nearly $2k owed to them from construction and extras. we can't expect students in the future to continue to sink a grand or more of their personal funds into the operation. i wish we could make it free like its supposed to be, but until we get more old ags to give us large enough donations to run things, we're stuck charging entrance fees to be able to build the next year.

i'm not intending to sound sore or whatever, i know suggestions are designed to point out what we need to do better but we need less, "yall should do this and that" and more suggestions like this one....

quote:

---

Alumni band. I'll kick in some real money for expenses. Redoak_98@msn.com.

---

ie... here's what you should do next year and here's what i'm gonna do to help that happen.

Thanks to everyone involved for making Bonfire burn. This was my 6th Bonfire and meant just as much to me as the other 5 on campus.
The only real complaints my friends and me had were the transportation breakdowns. We took a bus out to the site no problem (got there early), but when we were leaving we gave up on the buses and the mob of people and walked. However, we had a great time walking back to the Exxon for a ride to come get us. I'm not being sarcastic, we needed the exercise and it was a lot of fun.

Here are my suggestions:

Create corrals at the pick up points (at Stack and parking lots) similar to an amusement park ride. You buy your ticket, and get in the appropriate line. Corrals could be made fairly easy with make shift wooden posts and rope. Clearly marked signs should point the attendees to the appropriate line. When the buses are ready to allow people on, a 'line attendant' only lets the amount of people who can fit in the bus through the ropes. The buses going to different locations need to be marked clearly and spread apart so that there is no confusion as to which line to get in and which bus to get on. I think this would reduce or even get rid of the mass mob of people rushing for buses. Current / Former students could volunteer to be 'line attendants', they should have distinguishable clothing, flashlight, and megaphone (if money allows).

Don't allow standing on the buses. I think the buses hold around 80 people seated and around 100+ if people are tripling up and standing. Though for safety reasons standing should not be allowed. I know we all stand when going to class, but because the buses are traveling much further and at higher speeds (on the highway) it is not as safe.

Lighting at the bus drop off / pick up point and well marked signs with instructions / general information should be everywhere.

I did hear some girls complaining of no toilet paper in the porto-potties. Might need to get 1 or 2 people on bathroom duty to restock the tp.

A little more coordination between everyone would make a huge difference.

More detailed information on the web site and the ability to download a .PDF or .DOC file with the info would be cool.

It was great seeing burn. I can't wait until next year.

Edit: Because I live in Houston, participating in cut and stack isn't easy. I keep up to date with events and as Bonfire 04 approaches I will jump in to see how I can help.

Gig 'Em


[This message has been edited by GCRanger (edited 11/25/2003 12:45p).]

I already wrote on the site that I will be glad to help with things like tracking down old yells and old bq's, and even current non aggie band student musicians.

I can keep a date base of names and contact information.

I also would like to help with publicity--especially behind the scenes grass roots planning for that.

quote:

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Create corrals at the pick up points

---

YES!

I had that thought on Sunday!

I'll help to make sure it happens right next year.

Keep all suggestions/concerns and solutions coming.... they will be put to great use. Thanks...... grey '04

Start cut earlier.

[This message has been edited by TAMUGodot (edited 11/28/2003 10:13p).]

Every cutting "entity" needs at least one dedicated chainsaw and chainsaw operator - eliminate the need/temptation to downswing and allow logs to quickly be moved out of the woods.

Keegan.

Why? Instead of entrusting lots of different people to have saws, why not have a few people that their ONLY responsibility is saws, but not necessarily assign them to be in certain areas at certain times.

Chip...that my mine and falconag's job during bonfire. However, it takes more than two people to do it efficiently. This year we did more of the prior where we trained a few guys from each "entity" to help out. We are hoping to get a few more pure chainsaw/blue pots next year.

The other reason why many logs got left in the woods was because some "entities" didn't have enough people to swamp the logs they killed out.

[This message has been edited by diehard03 (edited 11/29/2003 11:45a).]

ChipFTAC01 - it would be a small group that would be trained, but their areas of responsibility would be well defined.

With no downswings and chainsaw operators God-knows-where, topping trees and getting them out of woods in a timely manner was next to impossible. As a result, a lot of logs were never even fv<ked out of the woods until they were needed for stack.

No downswings? How exactly did you top logs? Were they all topped with saws by your "bluepots" Why not just have more bluepots? From the way it sounds, just a handful should be enough to keep up with how fast the entities are dropping logs.

we were unable to keep a crew on saws that would show up consistently. we trained a new "crew" 2 times this year, the first weekend for each new crew went great, i had a saw for each of the 2 "entities" and diehard03 and i would float to areas that people needed special assistance (trees hung up etc) and woods that the saw in the area was falling behind.

But the next weekend that crew was no-where to be seen. The problem with a crew like that is we have to find someone dedicated enough to get the job done and not just screw around with their particular entity.

Another problem is the fact that until now, every saw we had was personally owned. After loaning my equiptment out for the day and getting it back broken on several occasions, it makes you a bit nervous to let someone who's never used a saw before take it again the next week.

Also we didn't really have enough saws to give one in each area. We had at one point asked the entities to select a chainsaw person for their woods alone AND gather money and purchase a saw to be passed down within their entity, however we got only 1 saw.

Now that we've purchased saws with some of the money we recieved this year, next year will be easier as far as equipment is concerned. The next challenge is finding people willing to come out and work hard with new people everyday, and not just come for the social scene.

Chainsaws will be a "set position" next year. The decision has already been made. This year and last we have had all the problems discussed, but that can mainly be attributed to a small amount of leadership -- the truly dedicated that you know will show up every week.

There is no such shortage this year. Several of the new greys have already been asked and accepted and others may be added to their numbers once we're finished keeping our business obligations.

I know we've been quiet, but that is because right now we are working feverishly to finish up the remaining wood-cutting that has to be done as part of our deal with the owner.

Once this is done, we will start planning next year and share those plans with everyone else. There will be a large-scaled effort this year to involve former students -- something we messed up last year.

So, please be patient...

well chainsaw pots were a set position this year and like both i and you said the problem is a small ammount of people who are willing to show up every week and not be with the buds they came with. you need most of those for greys, and finding greys is hard enough.

After that, finding additional people willing to come week in week out and put the work in that is required is difficult. what really needs to happen is each dead chief needs to be trained and assigned one of our new saws upon their group's arrival. that dead chief takes care of logs in woods for that crew only.

on top of that a wing of blue/browns walks around and helps where groups get behind or special circumstances arise. I've already spoken with 3 people who have their own saws whom i trust to do this next year.

this was not possible with our limited personal equiptment, but now that we have the money we can start to do things right.

What I see is the need for at least three types of people--most importantly those who actually work on cut and stack.

Second, as mentioned earlier--event planning--people to make the contacts necessary to make Burn even more meaningful and closer to the original traditions. This includes transit, site aquisition, many, many things.

Third, you need people to handle public relations--this would include publicity for Burn but also getting word out and setting up a system to help new people get involved.

One part also could include a "presentation" about the group with power point type --with video--program. The people involved in this have to be living faq experts, but they could make the circuit of things like mom's clubs and perhaps even some former student clubs--trying to stay just under the radar that would have the university ban such programs. This would be an excellent way to get donations both of cash and services.

My vision would have an ever increasing "family" that is student driven, but with mentoring and financial and "in kind" support from former students and others who care.

as for aston participation and pots, i was in aston in 99-00 and 00-01. worked on stack with aston in 99. me and one of the other astonites from that year discussed trying to get more aston interest, including starting up the pots again. if the old pots want nothing to do with it, then we'll have to try ourselves. however, i know no one living in aston now, and am sure the rha won't just let me go in and talk to people. any ideas to get this started? anyone living in aston and wanna help?

feel free to message me on aim. my screenname is the same as my texags name. hope to hear from someone...

(edit) oh yeah, and i plan on helping build the hell outta bonfire next year! missed out on it this year, unfortunately. but got to see it burn and it was great. i figure now i need to help it keep goin.

[This message has been edited by GIGEMeh (edited 12/2/2003 2:23p).]

A-Whoop.

and while you're at it, if you know old pots from Dunn or other southside dorms that have a chance of showing intrest/giving support, give them a swift kick in the rear while you're at it.

Kyle from Aston (Aston Crew '00 and the end of their lines... I think) actually helped in the early stages of planning UP. I haven't talked to him in a while, but unless his feelings changed dramatically, he has always been in support of our effort. Don't know about his brothers or the rest of their lines though...

Art from Dunn (Dunn Crew '00) also was instrumental over the past couple of years in getting to where we are. I lost his # a while back when my cell decided to take a swim, but he too would probably help/repass lines if we got a hold of him.

On the subject of old Dunn boys, we had several guys out at cut from Dunn that were there in '99. I grabbed a couple of their phone #'s and will be calling them after this wood is cut.

See my separate post about the wood cutting...

kyle was my suite-mate in 99. i know he always wanted it to continue, but haven't talked to him in about a year. wonder if he reads this stuff...

If you want to get in contact with people from certain dorms you can try getting on

hobbes.resnet.tamu.edu

but be prepared to be made fun of, though you may find some southsiders who can help get the word out. Hobbes is the geeky underbelly of A&M and 2%ers are a majority.

Send a crew a couple hours out of CS and kill some real tall trees for the tallest stack.

I'm bumping some old posts from the past few years for those who would like more info, pics, and videos from previous bonfires.