I am glad there seems to be a desire to bring it back to campus, in some shape or form. I am also thrilled that the majority of students, especially those carrying on the tradition, don't want the return of Bonfire to campus to be a shell of its former self. There has to be a compromise on how it is built. And the fact that students are carrying on the tradition off campus, their way, provides all the leverage they will need to find a suitable compromise.

Follow my train of thought for a minute....

1. In the future, hopefully not too distant, the University will settle all of its obligations with the injured and deceased and will desire to bring back some form of the tradition.
2. They will approach Student Bonfire about ending the off campus tradition and replacing it with an on campus tradition.
3. The universtiy will demand the students transfer all leadership roles and work to the on campus bonfire, which the university will not share details about with the students. A "To Be Determined" type discussion.
4. When the plan is ultimately revealed, there will be minimal student involvement other than simple crowd control on the night of burn. May a little logisitcal help, but it will be glorified party planning. The university's goal will be to end the off campus fire at all costs, and minimize student labor which will mitigate any risk of injury.

The leadership of Student Bonfire is going to have to be very savvy during this process. Until the exact work guidelines for students are laid out, contractually, Student Bonfire must go on as planned, off campus. All the university has to do is stop it for one year and the likelihood of it continuing drops dramatically.

If the Students want to carry on the cutting tradition, so be it. The leaders must get that set up contractually. If they want to load and unload the trucks, the must get it in writing. If they want to help build it, again, in writing.

In my opinion, the university will cave to a certain level of student involvement of heavy physical labor. Why? Because once the university discusses the potential return to campus, they are blessing the tradition itself, and they immediately take on the liability of the off campus fire. I know it seems hard to believe, but do any of you think that if an accident happens off campus while the university is discussing an on campus version that the lawyers representing the injured/dead would not name the university? They absolutely will. If the university has the power to bring it back, and they do, and they "allow" it to continue, they are tacitly approving its construction and its methods.

The university cannot let the off campus version go on forever. Over time, even decades, the construction will get bigger, it will get safety lapses, and something will happen, it is just a matter of time and opportunity.

If the leaders of student bonfire, plus its attorneys, play the coming game correctly, we can get an on campus version of the fire that we all can live with and learn to love.

The negotiation is coming, and I hope the youngsters are ready.

http://texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=1576702&page=1&forum_id=14

http://texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=1529549&forum_id=14

Keep 'em coming.

I think I like this "bringing it back" thread the best so far. But yes, there have been a few.

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The leadership of Student Bonfire is going to have to be very savvy during this process. Until the exact work guidelines for students are laid out, contractually, Student Bonfire must go on as planned, off campus. All the university has to do is stop it for one year and the likelihood of it continuing drops dramatically.

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It seems like this has been on the horizon for a few years now...

just how quickly we're approaching it is yet to be determined.

The funny thing about the word minimal... It isn't quantitative.

Now, one thing that has crossed my mind is that should the university contract it out, Student Bonfire Inc., with the 501c3 status and free labor, could easily underbid the world.

The best way to ensure SB a seat front-and-center at the table is to make the current event too big and successful to ignore.

Unfortunately, that means making burn night a first rate event with solid logistical planning and plenty of polish, which for whatever reason SB is unwilling to do.

Not until they either dedicate a red to the "event" or learn how to delegate that responsibility without direct supervision.

One point of recruitment needs to focus on students who aren't into manual labor, but would love to get experience running a sizeable event.

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One point of recruitment needs to focus on students who aren't into manual labor, but would love to get experience running a sizeable event.

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Two words: business school. They're largely into greek life and not exactly among the hard science majors like engineering or bio that Bonfire tends to attract, but the business school students are at the top of the crowd at A&M when it comes to putting on events and coordinating them to the highest level of expectations. Time and time again we're told by recruiters that the business school career fair (a three day operation with hundreds of recruiters and tens of thousands of dollars exchanged) is one of the best in the country. Yah I'm bragging on Wehner High, but it's one of those exceptions where I actually can...

Also of note, it was decided and agreed on after '99 that any future Bonfire built on campus would have to adhere to TEPA, the Texas Engineering Practice Act. I have heard, verbatim, from a professor who was assigned to the Bonfire 2002 Committee that, "it's incorrect to believe that we can simply transplant the off-campus bonfire on to and on-campus setting, there would have to be a complete review of it and probably some drastic changes from what everyone would want." Just bc he said it doesn't make it true, but I imagine he's somewhat in the know.

On the other hand, if there were to be an intermediary between the university and SB, like a student organization whose specific focus was to promote the off-campus bonfire on campus, then that could act as a channel for dialog between SB leadership and student activities/university figureheads in a way that doesn't imply "official talks". It's already been looked up and found that there's nothing, no rule or legislature, that can prevent a student with that focus from starting such a student organization.

Of course I'm just talking...tired as sheet after running around in the snow
+1 for Burn-night Red (and/or set making station RP) even though the only thing to blame this last year was the weather the week before

the thing is, the scope would be quite a bit bigger than just the one night... Just like there is Head Stack, Head Civ., Shock, & so on... a distinct "Event" or "Head Logistics" is needed to head up/line up everything from advertising the night, to getting vehicles out of the parking lot.

Keegan: since I've never been to SB and you have, can you tell me what you think they should do to make it better -- i.e. toward what you are talking about?

For the record, I don't think Bonfire will come back to campus for a LONG time, if ever. The thing is, if the event does get big (and good), admin will just say, "hey, its fine as is." That may be an excuse or it may be what they really think.

haha..

"Hey what line are you"
"umm I'm burn night logistic pot"

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The best way to ensure SB a seat front-and-center at the table is to make the current event too big and successful to ignore.

Unfortunately, that means making burn night a first rate event with solid logistical planning and plenty of polish, which for whatever reason SB is unwilling to do.

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Huh, interesting insider information.

are you kidding, PB?

that could be one hell of a competition...

from one year to the next you'd have the line saying things like "I got 8700 vehicles in & out with nary a traffic jam. What'd YOU do?" with replies like, "I unstuck 6400 vehicles after a 500 year rainfall the night before..."

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Keegan: since I've never been to SB and you have, can you tell me what you think they should do to make it better -- i.e. toward what you are talking about?

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The biggest obstacle is parking and traffic.

Some back-of-the-envelope calculations can be done that establish pretty solid upper bounds on how many cars you can park per hour if you only have a single gate, as was the case in 2009.

So how do you solve that problem?

I'd suggest a two pronged approach.

The first is more points for ingress and egress. A single paved road could feed as many as five or ten gates and "in the lot" parking flows. Exploit parallelism to park 10+ cars simultaneously throughout the lot.

The second is by improving the event and widening the window in which people arrive. That is, give people a reason to show up early. Have a serious stage and sound system setup and a big name band or two headlining the event.

In the same vein, have a cohesive site plan with walkways, vendor locations, concessions, merchandise, appropriate lighting and other site work, etc.

Basically, have a professional, large crowd outdoor atmosphere like you would see at an ACL music festival or similar event.

If you really want to get fancy, upsell folks with VIP and/or sponsorship packages that include priority parking, bleacher seating with view of the stage and stack, complimentary t-shirts, or other perks.

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Huh, interesting insider information.

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It's not insider information. It's firsthand observations of an event program that's only seen very, very modest improvements since 2003.

SB needs to mature and deliver a customer experience - that's what attendees are, customers - that leaves attendees wholly impressed and not peeved about traffic, parking, mud, lighting, sound, poor food and drink selections, rambling speakers, uncoordinated yells, etc.


[This message has been edited by Keegan99 (edited 4/3/2010 5:48p).]

Keegan, what were Burn nights on campus like?

EDIT: logistically/event-prep speaking

[This message has been edited by agcoop10 (edited 4/5/2010 9:12a).]

Well, you had the entire campus parking system at your disposal, so parking and getting to the polo fields was fairly straightforward.

The University may have run shuttle buses from more distant spots like West Campus as well. I was always on campus, so I don't specifically recall.

The University handled things like the stage, sound, lighting, security, and media relations.

There was undoubtedly some liaison work that took place between Bonfire / Redpots and the University, but the impression was that the Reds weren't directly responsible for the event beyond getting stack lit. Pretty much everything outside perimeter was under control of the University on burn night, I believe. Old Reds can probably provide more detailed information on that.

I don't recall any concessions or merchandise stands out there, though the MSC Bookstore may have had a stand or booth somewhere.

The program itself was completely organized. The band, Redpots, University President, Football Coach, etc. all knew exactly what they had to do and when they had to do it.

I will be getting a copy of the '98 Bonfire master schedule in the next couple of days. It spans the whole of Bonfire season but has a high level of detail regarding timing on Burn day & night, down to the minute when to do a particular yell.

Also a copy of several years financials (stage rentals, speaker rentals, fork lift rentals, post event site cleanup); indemnity wavers for using third party equipment; hazing & liability agreements; copies of the '87 and '99 Aggie Bonfire Constitution; and a heavy packet that bills itself as a "Construction Manual for The Texas Aggie Bonfire." Plus some other stuff.

I would be happy to pass these along if there's interest...

I guess what I was getting at is whether it was something that had a commercial feel to it. Having to have bands, entertainment, concessions, etc. to get people out doesn't quite seem ideal to the experience of Aggies coming together just to be Aggies. Obviously times are different now and there's a whole slew of new issues to work through, but that would be my guess as to any hesitance toward having a bunch of entertainment extra to Bonfire itself.

Understandably, you have to work toward the ultimate goal of putting on an event that all can enjoy and be drawn to. I guess I'm just looking for other ways of doing that.

And fitch, I'd definitely be interested in that stuff.

This is where location plays a big part in it...

On campus, you could leave your house or dorm and hour or so before Burn... you'd end up a good distance from Stack if you waited, but everything was just a short walk away.

Parking wasn't so bad because those living in dorms or close to campus would simply walk over, and those that did drive had an entire university and surrounding areas to park in/at.

Things were still crowded and busy enough to garner complaints, especially if you were told to find an alternate way home if the city/university decided to shut down certain streets. ...yes that happend. You had an entire city traffic department working with you to make traffic move.

There were also places to eat, drink, and hang out within sight... So people didn't mind dedicating a day to get to Burn early. It was a much different scene than a field in BFE...

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Obviously times are different now and there's a whole slew of new issues to work through, but that would be my guess as to any hesitance toward having a bunch of entertainment extra to Bonfire itself.

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If the only draw is burn, everyone is going to want to show up 30 minutes before it's lit. People just aren't going to show up and stand around in a field for three hours.

That creates an intractable problem in the area of traffic and parking.

The only way to address it is to increase the arrival window, and to do that you need to give people a reason to be there.


Buses, while a nice thought, just don't scale. You can run 50, 50-person buses and only move 2,500 people in a round trip, which is probably 20 minutes at best depending on where your staging area is and how smoothly your loading and unloading goes.

That sounds like a lot until you realize you need to move 25,000+... which is 3+ hours of full buses.

[This message has been edited by Keegan99 (edited 4/6/2010 2:38p).]

My 2-cents: If it had the feel of an old fashioned county fair (concession stands, booth games, bounce house, other stuff to entertain young families) and not just a soda shack and a t-shirt selling station (with staff conscripted into working them at the last minute), then that could actually work and is maybe something to explore. Jury is still out on whether having a big name performer out there would be a detractor, I really can see both sides of that argument.

Bonfire the event evolved through the decades to match the crowds and the times, so it stands to reason SB shouldn't resist modifications (so long as they don't tamper with the main event). You could even shut that stuff down a few minutes prior to alert the crowd its about to be lit, assuming the lights being extinguished isn't enough of a hint.

Somebody should crunch the numbers to see if something like that could be profitable. Solid data are better than guesstimations and chancing it at any rate.

Coop, when I get them in I'll let you know.

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If it had the feel of an old fashioned county fair (concession stands, booth games, bounce house, other stuff to entertain young families) and not just a soda shack and a t-shirt selling station (with staff conscripted into working them at the last minute), then that could actually work and is maybe something to explore.

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Completely agree. That's ideal for the family element.


The name performer would be more of a draw for the current students, though of course there'd be some crossover as to which demographics are drawn by what.

The university used to have large logistical meetings for about a month prior to burn. I got to sit in on them during the 1998 fire as I was involved with TMC.

I attended along with Head Stack Red. The university basically had the routine down and just used the meetings to remind everyone of the process and timeline. Head Stack attended and answered very few questions and was there just to listen to make sure nothing interfered with their ability to finish. But it was all encompassing. Corps, Police, Fire, EMS, Public Works, Sherrifs Dept, Food Services, PTTS, Band, Yell Leaders, Athletics Department, Football SID, Res Life, Student Senate (???? I know), Student Government, etc.

got them, finally

bcooper615 at gmail dot com

>>If the only draw is burn, everyone is going to want to show up 30 minutes before it's lit.<<

I think you're right about this, and why it has to be on campus to work. Turning bonfire into an outdoor music festival (what is suggested here) will be OK for a while but won't create a lasting tradition. "The music last year sucked and I'm not going back this year..." comments will happen sooner or later. Once bonfire is secondary, what's the point?

I've come to the conclusion that bonfire back on campus is not ever going to happen, so making it successful elsewhere is largely wishful thinking. I wish I was wrong, but I doubt I will be.

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so making it successful elsewhere is largely wishful thinking

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That's a pathetic defeatist attitude.

Giving people a reason to arrive early isn't an insurmountable goal, nor is it a plot to move Bonfire to the undercard of the event agenda.