So.....commercialize it.....

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I've been lending a hand since the idea of 2002 started rolling.

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Please define lending a hand.
There is a difference in lending a hand and lending opinions and advice.

It's real easy to lend opinions when you don't know the day to day business of the organization.

Do you honestly think that the leadership is so blunt face stupid they haven't though of the things you are suggesting?

It's very likely that Keegan is doing the same thing I am...

I don't care a bit about anything I've addressed in this thread...

...but there are thousands that dedicate only a single day to Bonfire...Burn.

To them, they know the problems and the events that take place on that single day. Many of them probably don't even know yet that Bonfire is at a new location, and Burn is tomorrow.

If problems of the past year are not publicly addressed, they are left to think that nothing has changed.

I'm sure you'll be able to meet Keegan tomorrow afternoon... I have a few Black Angus waiting on me right now, but after that I'm on my way out again.

oh, and Keegan... Do you know if the 2002 fire been paid off yet?

Need a UP contact for Hearne? I can provide.

hiss for criticizing other Ags lending input

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Please define lending a hand.
There is a difference in lending a hand and lending opinions and advice

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You MUST be younger than class of '08 (no offense to ones like Fitch who usually show positive representation for SB) because if you don't at the very least recognize the name Keegan than you're obviously too young to be positively representing the username "Pro-Bonfire" or bringing any positive light to Student Bonfire as an organization. I hope that you are not in leadership, and hope that you soon learn how ignorant you come across.



And FWIW I agree with everything Keegan has said.

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Please define lending a hand

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1. Get a star, do a search. Keegan was one of the first to step up when SB needed money to cover the costs of the burn ban citations.

2. Gain access to some UP-ASB-SB photo archives. Look for a construction orange LecNerd logo on the pot of a guy killing trees. One of them is Keegan.

3. Go out to Burn. Ask around for him. Shake his hand. Look for scars and calluses that years of "lending his hand" have created.

4. Offer to buy him a beer at the Chicken after burn to apologize for your insolence.

FYI, I believe I cleared up any debt from UP '02 by 2004. SW, and Mac were paid back, SJ and LC donated their portions, and everyone else worked it out in trade for t-shirts, etc.

(These opinions are mine and only mine. With these statements, I do not represent any group, company, or business in any capacity.)

-------------------------------------------------------
If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you can read this in English, thank a Soldier.

[This message has been edited by opie03 (edited 11/24/2009 8:04a).]

Follows a long jumbled mess hopefully it gets the many points across…

Am I ignorant to NOT constantly assume that the leadership of SB doesn’t know what they are doing and that my input is the final answer to all questions? If so than yes I am ignorant.

As for the name Keegan, yes I recognize the name, no problem there. I assure you I well represent the user name pro-bonfire, and no matter if I was/am younger than ’08 I assure you that is not the end all be all point of knowledge. I also won’t apologize for asking for the definition of lending a hand and the answer to a question I didn’t know came out of it. In all sincerity thank you Keegan for your support in 05. On the same token, many others have given their $$ and their labor but that doesn’t afford anybody the right to criticize without firsthand knowledge of what is going on THIS year. Some things are out of SBs control, burn bans in the past overly wet year this year.

I just happen to have a problem with those that sit on TexAgs (not just Keegan) and continually offer advise with the assumption that 1. the leadership has time to read it, 2. they are the first ones to develop the idea and 3. that their advice will end all problems. And then to top the cake they get offended and bash SB when their opinions aren’t taken! If you have the grand answer to solving all problems at bonfire then maybe you should be out there working to enact your solution, or even make a proposal to the leadership in a polite helpful way, in the Spring don’t wait until a week before burn.
I will apologize for using you as an example Keegan, you’re not the first to criticize and won’t be the last. Hell you’re not the only one on this thread that has done it. I’m just getting to the point of being tired of hearing it.

See ya’ll when it burns.
BTHO t.u.

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1. the leadership has time to read it,

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some do.

EVERYONE has the right to criticize. You should be OPEN to it.

The defensive attitude you're displaying is what was part of the problem before the collapse. Rather than actually analyzing what he's said (which is CORRECT btw) you immediately challenge someone who has supported the group from the beginning and been a huge advocate.

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If you have the grand answer to solving all problems at bonfire then maybe you should be out there working to enact your solution

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Most on this forum are far removed from school and well into our careers.

[This message has been edited by NoACDamnit (edited 11/24/2009 10:23a).]

since when is being critical the same as bashing?

It might be that pro is mistaking the past Burn night experiences that justifies the criticism as "bashing"...

Heaven forbid students come together to do something that is at least semi-productive!
Please all of you reread this thread, then look at what a dedicated group of students have pulled together with zero budget,and alot of hard work! Is it really neccesary to be THAT critical and in many cases plain mean?

and btw,
BTHOB!

Who has been mean here?

And why is it being overly critical to point out a major logistics problem?

Ok, your point is made. It is still burning tonight. Feel free to don an orange vest and a flashlight to assist in directing traffic. Or let the point be done.

SERIOUSLY?

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The defensive attitude you're displaying is what was part of the problem before the collapse. Rather than actually analyzing what he's said (which is CORRECT btw) you immediately challenge someone who has supported the group from the beginning and been a huge advocate.

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This is the same attitude that exists today, as has just been demonstrated.

[This message has been edited by WH08PsyJayci (edited 11/24/2009 10:57a).]

Not to pick a fight here, but the size of Old Hearne road is out of the hands of the red's. Yes, next year perhaps the property owner will let them push through two entryways to OSR though this year it's too late. I'm not criticising the thought process, because I agree it will be a problem.

Double post...pardon

[This message has been edited by OverR (edited 11/24/2009 11:08a).]

WHOA!! Who said I was opposed to critizism? My whole point was that you don’t have a right to criticize if you aren’t willing to go out and be HANDS on to solve the problem. I’m not trying to be defensive and say that SB is perfect by any means. And yes it is bashing when you say they haven’t had their acts together in years past and make the suggestion that they aren’t doing a good job because of hiccups in the past. Like I said before there are some things that are unforeseen. Burn was a success last year with a few exceptions, a extremely larger than expected crown showed and the bus company screwed them over. Now without spending huge $$ fix that problem with what they had to work with, I challenge you. So this year they fixed it… they moved to a new site will all onsite parking. Guess they are forward thinking afterall huh??
I know for a fact from talking to leadership that they are open to criticism and suggestions, this just isn’t the place to do it, although yes I’m sure atleast some of them read it maybe try actually talking to them face to face in a sit down situation. If you expect to beable to walk up to them on a cut day and give your 2 cents don’t expect to be heard. Also don’t expect to go in with a holy attitude and think that you have all the answers. Sometimes the reason they might not listen is they have already thought of your solution and ruled it out for one reason or another. And if your suggestion isn’t heard on here don’t get pissed cause they didn’t use your end all be all solution!

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My whole point was that you don’t have a right to criticize if you aren’t willing to go out and be HANDS on to solve the problem.

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Again, EVERYONE has a right to criticize. And again, most here have careers. You should be OPEN to what we have to say and instead you were flat out rejecting it going so far as to mock Keegan!?! Someone who WANTS the event to succeed and has worked to that end?

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I’m not trying to be defensive

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You certainly come across that way.

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maybe try actually talking to them face to face in a sit down situation.

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Sounds good, can one of them meet me in Bedford between 6PM and 10PM on a weeknight? If not I will continue to discuss issues here.

So a career means you are bound to be somewhere 24/7 365? I am OPEN to what you are saying, evening if I wasn't who cares there is no point in convincing me, I'm not in charge of what happens out there. At what point do you think I mocked Keegan? As I assure you that was not my point. I was criticizing his method, and was it not you that just said we should be open to criticism?

I don’t know if they can meet you in Bedford, have you bothered asking? Better yet, are you never down in CS on a game weekend or some random weekend in the spring or summer when they actually have time to listen. I bet there is some time somewhere that you could arrange with them to meet. Do you attend any A&M club meetings or coaches nights in either Dallas or FW, maybe bend their ear for a second there.

I think everybody is missing my whole point, quit complaining about problems here and GO TALK TO THEM don’t just go with a jumble of rambling ideas, go with a actual plan, they might just listen.

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At what point do you think I mocked Keegan?

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You'd have a lot more credibility if you were honest.

Your words :

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Then again, I'm sure if the Reds would only take the time to ask all of your opinions all the problems would be solved in no time flat!!

Keegan for event coordinator!

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You're going to claim you WEREN'T mocking him? If so you have a big time communication problem.

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I think everybody is missing my whole point

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Given the manner in which you have presented it that can hardly be surprising.

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quit complaining about problems here and GO TALK TO THEM

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This is a discussion forum. Things will be discussed here. The concept that we can't be critical here is STRAIGHT out of the Linbeck report. You have to understand that many of us find that defensive attitude absolutely terrifying.

Keegan for event coordinator!

Yes I'll say it again. Keegan does have SOME good ideas. Having an event coordinator is one of them. He should be that person, or maybe help them find that person. I doubt there is a line of people waiting to fill that one.

You keep saying I'm opposed to criticism; Yes I am opposed to criticism WITHOUT action, that’s constructive criticism. Otherwise your just that guy that shows up once a year and complaints cause things weren’t going your way… THAT is not criticism. If you’ve read the report, which I'm sure you have, than you would also know that another issue was people sitting back and not addressing obvious issues. If you’re so concerned with addressing all of the issues of the report than you would be talking to those in charge helping to resolve problems.

Have the Reds actually said to your face once this year go to hell we don't want to hear your opinion?

[This message has been edited by Pro-Bonfire (edited 11/24/2009 12:01p).]

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You'd have a lot more credibility if you were honest.

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I'm dishonest? In what way?

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You're going to claim you WEREN'T mocking him? If so you have a big time communication problem.

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To say that I was mocking him would be to say that I didn't agree with anything he said or maybe even that I don't think he would do a good job as event coordinatior.

I infact do agree with SOME of what he says and think he may very well be a good fit.

If the only thing you have to hold against my credability is the fact that I "mocked" somone than so be it. Sounds like a lame excuse.

See ya'll when it burns at "dark thirty".

[This message has been edited by Pro-Bonfire (edited 11/24/2009 12:39p).]

Maybe then again it is my manner of criticism. Oh wait, criticism is supposed to be a one way street!!!

your english teacher really ought to consider another career.

but to the point... posters on this board know the difference between criticism, complaining, critical arguments, and straight up bashing. there has been some of it all in this forum.

I really get tired of reading arguments on here, the exception being critical debates where there is some greater point being discussed. THAT gives me hope for Student Bonfire's future (which is pretty bright the way I see it).

The coordination of the event of Burn is a perfectly legitimate topic to discuss in a critical manner because it is so complex and so big that it merits the attention. Leadership of course gives an appropriate amount of respect to this fact and they do their best to make it a good show, but there's only 7 reds this yr, there were 18 back in the day (somebody correct me if I'm wrong). There's a reason the JRPs run everywhere on campus - there's not enough time to get everything done. Having a lot of ideas put forth is better than hardly any... maybe somewhere out of all the different opinions voices there's a quality idea that people haven't thought of.

I expect tonight to go well, great even. I hope the parking works out, all bets are it will still be better than the bus line debacle.

See you when it burns

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. Leadership of course gives an appropriate amount of respect to this fact and they do their best to make it a good show, but there's only 7 reds this yr, there were 18 back in the day (somebody correct me if I'm wrong).

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There are old Reds that post here that may offer some insight, but I don't believe the Reds had all that much to do with the burn night event on campus beyond meetings to review the gameplan with University officials, who took care of the stage, event program, etc.

You know I actually wouldn't be too surprised at that keegan. I'd love to hear how it used to be coordinated. I guess since my only Bonfires have been off campus I was just under the impression that pre-99 the reds took care of everything, like they do today. It's understandable if that wasn't the case.

The point I was trying to make was that they don't have a lot of man power, but still manage to do a pretty damned good job. As of last year I totally supported the formation of a committee whose only job was planning and coordinating Burn. This year they surprised me with a helluva lot of forethought and site preparation and I think the argument for such a committee weakened a little. Traffic still sucked, thats something to work on, but you can only plan so well before large numbers of attendees starts creating problems inherent to big crowds…if that made sense at all…

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This year they surprised me with a helluva lot of forethought and site preparation and I think the argument for such a committee weakened a little.

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I'll just have to disagree there. There's still a TON of room for improvement.

from BTHOB at http://texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=1530363&forum_id=14

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Just a quick note here... Back when Bonfire burned ON CAMPUS, if you didn't get into town "until about 6:30 or 7:00" you would have had to get REAL lucky to find parking anywhere NEAR campus and then either find a ride or, since traffic was basically at a standstill at that point, walk to campus. Depending on how far away you had to park, you may not have made it in time to see Bonfire get lit.

Keep this in perspective, people. There will be many that plan ahead and get there early. There will be those who arrive too late. Those who arrive too late will either decide to never attend again, or they will decide to arrive earlier the next year.

Life goes on. And, Bonfire will ALWAYS attract a large crowd. Attendees should plan accordingly.

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Its fine to disagree, and I'm not disputing that there's room to improve, but for the site that was used I think it was done very well. I'm comparing it to the issues involved with Pin Oak Rd of course, and voicing my general feel for the preparation that took place before the gates opened for an anticipated large crowd (multiple wreckers & ATVs on site towing, a tractor spreading literally tons of mulch in trouble areas, highly segmented parking areas and diversion paths) plus the responsiveness of coordinators at the site. Another tractor or two running to spread mulch probably would've helped considerably but you gotta work with finite resources.

Maybe the idea of introducing an incentive to come earlier would be a good one to vet. If it worked the same in practice as it does in theory it could even out traffic flow. On the other hand it could create two waves of impassable traffic or people leaving before the main event at dark-thirty….

If alternative routes to get to Old Hearne Rd were posted that also could've helped.