I for one am glad that Dr. Bowen, who sheepishly calls himself an aggie, said no to a bonfire in 2002.

This only gives a LOT of students drive and passion to do something about it. Now the clear choice is to have a NON-university sanctioned bonfire next semester. Show the university that it can be done, easily, safely, and most importantly 100% student built.

Next semester will be my last one at this great university, but I will be out there building my 3rd bonfire, wherever it is.

I don't think an off campus bonfire is the solution. It may be a great way to have some fun before the t.u. game, but in no way can it replace Bonfire. Building a renagade bonfire this fall will not change the administration's decision.

quote:

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It may be a great way to have some fun before the t.u. game, but in no way can it replace Bonfire.

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Why not? Bonfire started off campus, after all.

quote:

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It may be a great way to have some fun before the t.u. game, but in no way can it replace Bonfire.

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Why not? Bonfire started off campus, after all.

quote:

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Building a renagade bonfire this fall will not change the administration's decision.

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That's not the goal. Nobody got the administration's blessing in 1909, either


BTW, anyone interested in an off-campus fire, please e-mail me at dkeegan@aggies.com. I am compiling a list of names, class years, and e-mail addresses to help get everyone together and on the same page. The networking starts now.

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dkeegan@aggies.com
Kyle Field - Where the 12th Man is a standing tradition, home field advantage is defined, and opponents get Marooned

[This message has been edited by Keegan99 (edited 2/5/2002).]

An off-campus Bonfire is NOT about changing Bowen's opinion. It is about carrying the Spirit where it guides you. The only respectable decision made by the students would be one 103% in the Spirit of Aggieland.

An off-campus Bonfire is not a slap in the face of Tradition or the integrity of Bonfire's past if it is done to honor Texas A&M and the Spirit and gives the students ownership of the Spirit of Aggieland. It CAN be a moving and powerful message to the world and to countless years of Aggies still to come that an Aggie's burning desires never fade. The overwhelming opinion is that anything in the future be safe and put the welfare of every Aggie on the same level of importance as the Spirit.

No one leader emerged tonight to take ownership of the events on Northside or at Bowen's house, everyone's actions were guided by their intense feelings for A&M and they were safe and honorable. It can and will be done in just the same manner again. The fire may change shape, it may return off-campus, it will return off-campus, but as long as the Spirit guides it, it will be one of the finest examples of what it means to be an Aggie.

I'M IN!!! Let's remember though: SAFETY SAFETY SAFETY! It cannot be stressed enough. Also, we should find out if having participants sign waivers will let us bypass getting insurance (i know nothing about this, so don't pounce on me). And it needs to be as public as possible, not a private party. E-mail me if you know of anyone who already has something in the works: geoaggie03@hotmail.com

Another thought... Once we get a decent number of people committed to this, we should set up a mailing list of some sort to prevent the Univ. from knowing our every move, rather than having it all posted on something as public as a message board.

Secrets lead to renegade Bonfires which carry a stigma and have been proven to exclude a large number of the student body. There is absolutely nothing for anyone to hide here. Safety and Spirit are what this is all about and there is nothing that needs to be kept secret. Student leaders who have worked on Bonfire will emerge and by example show the students that they have nothing to be afraid of. There will be central authority, but no one group or orgainization will take over. This is the students' and they will take proud and open support, they already have started.

"ren·e·gade (rn-gd)
n.
One who rejects a religion, cause, allegiance, or group for another; a deserter.
An outlaw; a rebel. "

"re·bel (r-bl)
intr.v. re·belled, re·bel·ling, re·bels
To refuse allegiance to and oppose by force an established government or ruling authority.
To resist or defy an authority or a generally accepted convention.
To feel or express strong unwillingness or repugnance: "

It can't be "renegade" if there's nothing to go against, and no other option.

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I for one am glad that Dr. Bowen, who sheepishly calls himself an aggie, said no to a bonfire in 2002.

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If you are the example of a real Aggie, then I may sheepishly start calling myself one too.

You embarrass our University with crap like this.

Bonfire is gone people! Deal with it. It costs too much and is not safe. An off campus bonfire makes us look divided and stupid. What happens if this off campus bonfire kills people too? Then will it end? Give me a freaking break.

There WILL be an off campus bonfire in 2002. There already was one last year. Their biggest fault was not making it open to all of the public. Don't be secretive, thats very bad P.R. You need to show whoever the new President will be that bonfire should not end. I hope people who support Bowen don't fool themselves because there will be a bonfire in 2002 of some sort. Also A&M is not the only university with a bonfire, so if other schools found a way, why can't we?

AGGIE03,

Stop driving smoking drinking dipping...

AGGIE03,

Stop driving smoking drinking dipping...

stain--What the hell? I think you've been smoking something if you think an off campus bonfire is a good idea.

Cost and saftey are no longer the issues. Bowen used those as an excuse. Former students would be more than happy to contribute, and current students, also. Plus, with the new bonfire design and the guidelines and saftey parameters given to us by the commission and given to us with the new 3-tier design, along with a professional contract bid to do the bulk of the work, this design would be a piece of cake and totally safe.

I think the comments about being secretive were directed at my post, so let me say I didn't mean for it to be interpreted that way. I am not saying let's have a replica of the off campus campfire that happened back in November. I am saying if this is going to happen, the only way to make it worthy of even burning is if all students know about it and have the opportunity to go. My comment about not letting the university know our every move meant simply that, regarding the administration. That was a part of KTFBs problems. Ray Ray knew too much about what we were doing, and used his clout to try to squelch our efforts (yes I was part of KTFB).

However after mulling it over a little while longer, and discovering this guy's efforts (www.aorbonfire.com) I am having second thoughts about supporting an off campus bonfire.

Off campus Bonfire is a great idea, but it needs to be highly publicized. It can't be just for a few ppl, the whole University should have a chance to go out and watch it burn.

Who wants to bet that no bonfire will get enought funding from former students?

Anyone?

Aggie Bonfire, as you knew it, is gone. Sure, there will be many sorry attempts built off campus, in secret locations, to bring back the glory of Aggie Bonfire. And I'm sure these misguided souls will tell us how good they felt, that they did the yells, sang the songs, and that these fires brought tears to their eyes. But they still won't be the Aggie Bonfires of your youth.

The people looking to start an off-campus Bonfire are going public. It's only been 24 hours and they are already publicly promoting it. It is amazing to watch too that everyone is all coming to a point on this. There aren't going to be splits. Everyone who is going to do this is going to do this together.

When they moved Bonfire on-campus to Simpson people said it was not an option. When they moved it from that spot to Duncan Drill Fields people said it wouldn't be the same. When they moved it to the Polo Fields more people than Ags had doubts (i.e. surveyors, .

The point is that as long as the students behind Bonfire have Aggie Spirit in mind and let that lead the way, the most important part of Aggie Bonfire will remain intact. Anyone who worked on it will tell you the most important part of Bonfire was building it as a brotherhood of Aggies.

And that brotherhood was always small, maybe 10% of the school population, and a lot of the rest of the school weren't big fans of that crowd until it burned. So it looks like the Spirit is intact and the University's reaction is right on track. See ya'll when it burns.

my aren't we all big optimists here. (note sarcasim)

For all you pessimists, please tell me exactely why an off-campus bonfire is unfeasible. Tell me why is could never replace the old bonfire. Tell me your concerns.

First off, Money and funding will not be an issue. There are tons of former ags that are already talking to the right people about this.

so please, I welcome questions and concerns about a unified, public, 100% student ran Bonfire that is off campus for a year or more.


-Joey Dobbs

refyj.....

The off campus version of the fire 2002 won't cost much in actual dollars. Most of the costs will be time and expertise, which will be donated in excess of needs by former students like myself.

Watch it happen. Aggies did it before, we shall do it again.

Any bonfire held off campus will not be an Aggie Bonfire, just a bonfire.

Except the decision and move on.

learn to spell, and then maybe someone will listen to you. and as for your lame notion that its over, as long as i am physically able, i will build the bonfire by myself if need be. and i know for a fact i am not the only one that feels this way. bonfire is nowhere close to gone. i'm sorry you are so ignorant that you cant see that.

It WILL burn again!!!

Young David,

quote:

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...i dont know how bonfire works.

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Thanks for stating the obvious.

Take a deep breath. Think back over your 18 years of life. Have you ever been told "no"? Have you always had your way? If not, did spoiled tantrums get things to go your way? Did someone steal your favorite toy and never give it back? Where is your anger coming from?

davidag05 - I commend your spirit however you are focusing your energies in a way that is counter productive to your goals. To learn about Bonfire go to Cushing library on campus and start your learning there from the actual materials. If you want to be productive then you should find out potential problems with an off-campus bonfire and seek to remedy them before they surface. They are going to need a design. Bowen's was seriously flawed and his estimates were way off so start there.

Here are two potential problems they will face:

- stacking or no-stacking of the logs

- how to keep people off the structure

I recommend calling on engineers and asking their thoughts and starting a design from there. Be also wary of engineers who have dealt extensively with steel structures as their designs tend to be impractical for a wooden structure. (ex. CBM)

Now get off this message board and start putting action behind your words.

Joe Dyson

So what happens when someone gets hurt or killed and the parents sue the leaders/organizers? Insurance is out of the question. Signing a waiver of liability means nothing. I would be very surprised if any engineering company would provide a design or any safety company would get involved with an off campus bonfire.

I know the students are gung-ho about doing this, but you must keep in mind the risks.

JohnnyD - have you actually researched any of those challenges faced by an off-campus undertaking, or are you just spouting off-the-cuff opinions?

I can already tell you that at least one of your conjectures is wrong, as there are PEs out there willing to work on such a project.

As far as insurance being 'out of the question', that's a huge stretch as well. Sure, the University had large estimates handed to them, but they also had no safety or construction plans to show the underwriters, making the estimates worthless. Before being able to issue an even close to accurate quote, the insurer needs to be able to assess (1) what risks are present (construction plans) and (2) how those risks will be mitigated (safety plans). With strong mitigation of risks and well-documented training procedures, insurance rates will be MUCH more reasonable than what the University gave.

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dkeegan@aggies.com
Kyle Field - Where the 12th Man is a standing tradition, home field advantage is defined, and opponents get Marooned

[This message has been edited by Keegan99 (edited 2/9/2002).]

jdyson, as to your 2 concerns about an off-campus bonfire, they both were already dealt with in the construction plans that were created by KTFB. Their plan included a multi-tier design where all the logs touched the ground, exactely like the one that took 2 years to design and decide upon by A&M. Also, no students were needed ON the stack. The logs were lifted by a very nice pully system, with 100% student force. The dangers of stack were minimized with this plan to a VERY small degree.

I am not saying that any future bonfire off or on campus will have this plan, but KTFB did, over 2 years ago.


AGAIN, my question is raised to all those with concerns about an off-campus bonfire...
WHAT WOULD BE WRONG/BAD/etc ABOUT AN OFF-CAMPUS BONFIRE?


please post your concerns.
-Joey

Joey, I see no concerns. Let's go ahead and do it. Build the Hell.

-Will D., '92

www.aorbonfire.com

Insurance would be a must and would be way to expensive. Can you imagine any insurance company that would put themselves out for bonfire? I can't.

kegen:

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Sure, the University had large estimates handed to them

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This may be true, but who has deeper pockets, Texas A&M Univeristy or the handful of former students that will actually throw money away at this?

refyj,

quote:

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Insurance would be a must and would be way to expensive. Can you imagine any insurance company that would put themselves out for bonfire?

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Are you an actuary? No one knows how much insurance will cost for a project like this. I can imagine that upon inspecting engineering plans, safety plans, and training materials, there would be more than a few insurance companies willing to issue a policy.

The University has deeper pockets, but as I said, the estimates the University received were worthless because there was no safety or construction information for the insurance company to base their quote on.

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dkeegan@aggies.com
Kyle Field - Where the 12th Man is a standing tradition, home field advantage is defined, and opponents get Marooned

Keegan,
It's easy to say that there are PEs out there willing to design a Bonfire, but it sure didn't seem like there were a lot of firms looking or willing to design one. It's possible that the university's search may not have been wholehearted, but to not get any qualified responses to the last RFP speaks volumes. It says something about the risk and reward of desiging a bonfire. Not getting any firms specialising in construction safety also meant a lot. It's one thing to find some individual former student PE willing to take on the liability of a bonfire design, but another to find a reputable company to come up with a real safety plan.

quote:

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It's one thing to find some individual former student PE willing to take on the liability of a bonfire design, but another to find a reputable company to come up with a real safety plan.

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I agree. Any Bonfire will probably rely on individuals with domain expertise willing to donate their time and services, as you describe.

BTW, are you who I think you are, Dr. Seuss?


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dkeegan@aggies.com
Kyle Field - Where the 12th Man is a standing tradition, home field advantage is defined, and opponents get Marooned