G.I.Bro said:
I was in a mood so I watched Batman returns and Batman forever last night.
BR is a good movie, but while Batman was a Batman movie directed by Tim Burton, BR was a Tim Burton movie with Batman. It is a fun movie but not as rewatchable imo. I felt they could have done more with Shrek being the bad guy behind things. I enjoyed Danny Devito chewing scenery, but not as much as I did Nicholson. Michelle Pfeiffer is the OG taker her glasses off and she turns from unattractive nerd into sexpot.
BF is horrendous. I hadn't seen it in over 2 decades and I knew it was bad, but I thought if I went in knowing that I could still somewhat enjoy it. I did not. The dialog is atrocious. I don't understand why they had to have 2 over the top zany villians. Two face should have been the straight man to the riddler's idiocy. Jim Carrey was too Jim Carrey and TLJ was just heehawing all over the place. This was a movie for babies. Why was Nicole kidman so gd horny the whole time. How can you make a movie with a horny nicole kidman and have me say "holy **** dial that back"? I feel like there were elements of a good story in there. Delving into Batman/Bruce's psyche, interesting. The riddler sucking brain waves out of people, that's a cool idea but the execution was silly. Having 2 villains, one obsessed with Batman, the other Bruce, that could be something. I feel like they had a good story to work with but they let a bunch of kids going through puberty write the script. I was going to do a Batman and Robin rewatch but I can't after this. I'll never ever watch this movie again
Coincidently, I did a rewatch of all the 90s Batman films (and the 89) a few weeks ago. I hadn't seen any of them, except for the '89 Batman, since I saw them in theaters. I remember really liking Batman Returns and Batman Forever, and even as a kid (well, teenager) I thought Batman and Robin was pretty bad. Rewatching, I still liked Batman Returns, but not as much as I remember. Granted, I'm not a big Tim Burton fan, and your assessment of it being "a Tim Burton movie" is spot on. I still liked Michelle Pfeiffer, but I didn't particularly like Dany Devito. I also appreciated Keaton's Batman more. I always liked him, but now I think he might be the best Bruce Wayne. Keaton has played Wayne as a likable guy, but also, there are a couple of moments where he's a little crazy and you can see how he could get off on kicking dudes asses at night.
Rewatching Batman Forever, and it's not great. I feel like they cast mostly the right actors. I thought Val Kilmer was an ok Batman, but I really thought Jim Carey was great as the Riddler. It's obviously more campy than today's Batmans, but in the 90s, I don't think we were really ready for the Riddler to be a serial killer. Tommy Lee Jones was awful, though. That's probably the worst role of his career. He absolutely should be a serious villain to balance out Carey. I really think the biggest problem with the whole movie, though, is the director. On paper, Schumacher should have been great. He's made Flatliners and The Lost Boys. Both of those had the darker tone Batman needed. He also made 8MM later. He clearly didn't understand the material, though. My only thought is that his only knowledge of Batman was the 60s TV show, and he was trying to emulate that.
Back when I saw Batman and Robin as a kid, I remember thinking it was pretty bad, but I think I had friends who liked it. Rewatching, and it should certainly be in the conversation for worst movie ever. It seems like everyone involved was putting in minimal effort. It was a cash grab for everyone involved. I read a quote from Chris O'Donnell where he said it didn't feel like they were making a movie, it felt like they were making a toy commercial, which is spot on. It's a testament to George Clooney that he was able to still have a career after this movie.