*** JOKER: FOLIE A DEUX ***

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3:14p, 4/2/24
AG
The first trailer drops next Tuesday...

Joker: Folie a Deux
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11315808/
October 4, 2024


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3:14p, 4/2/24
AG
A reminder that this movie...

- Is a sequel to 2019's Joker, which made $1.07B worldwide.

- Isn't part of the old DCEU.

- Isn't part of the new DCU.

- Isn't part of Matt Reeves'/Robert Pattinson's The Batman Saga.

- Is set in its own, contained universe, which now falls under the "DC Elseworlds" label.

- Is DC's only 2024 movie, releasing between "eras," before the DCU kicks off in 2025 with James Gunn's Superman.
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3:17p, 4/2/24
AG
Various promotional items/images that have been officially released so far...






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VP at Pierce and Pierce
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3:52p, 4/2/24
In the first one, change the name of the film to Arthur and remove the face paint and the movie makes $10 million is thought to be movie about some whack job going nowhere. Hopefully the second one is better but I guess we will see.
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Orlando Ayala Cant Read
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In reply to VP at Pierce and Pierce • 3:56p, 4/2/24
AG
VP at Pierce and Pierce said:
In the first one, change the name of the film to Arthur and remove the face paint and the movie makes $10 million is thought to be movie about some whack job going nowhere. Hopefully the second one is better but I guess we will see.


First one hits different people in different ways. I actually loved it more than I thought I would.
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El Gallo Blanco
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In reply to TCTTS • 4:08p, 4/2/24
TCTTS said:
A reminder that this movie...

- Is a sequel to 2019's Joker, which made $1.07B worldwide.

- Isn't part of the old DCEU.

- Isn't part of the new DCU.

- Isn't part of Matt Reeves'/Robert Pattinson's The Batman Saga.

- Is set in its own, contained universe, which now falls under the "DC Elseworlds" label.

- Is DC's only 2024 movie, releasing between "eras," before the DCU kicks off in 2025 with James Gunn's Superman.
I still maintain that Joker was the best and most gritty and realistic hero/villain origin story I have ever seen. I really hope Lady Gaga can somehow pull her weight...slightly worried about her trying to "over act", but we will see. JP's performance in Joker was nothing short of amazing. Dude's one of the greatest actors to ever live in my book.
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El Gallo Blanco
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In reply to VP at Pierce and Pierce • 4:11p, 4/2/24
VP at Pierce and Pierce said:
In the first one, change the name of the film to Arthur and remove the face paint and the movie makes $10 million is thought to be movie about some whack job going nowhere. Hopefully the second one is better but I guess we will see.
Take away Batman's costume and just make a movie about a meathead going around kicking criminal ass and call it "Tough Guy", and I bet it flops.

In all seriousness, I can totally see how Joker wouldn't do it for a lot of people. I also can sympathize with those who are a little triggered by it...it does hit a little close to home in this era of mass shooters. It's a HEAVY movie to me. I saw it for the first time shortly after the Summer riots of 2020 and it packed an even heavier punch for me just from that alone.
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AgTrip
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7:50p, 4/2/24
The Joker is a criminal insane genius. This guy is anything but that. This guy is an idiot. Sure he's crazy but he's no leader or mastermind. You saw this at the end with everyone running around rioting. He was clueless. He's a loser with a giggling disease.

The Joker from the comics, Jack Napier is a fearless criminal genius and a chemist. He is extremely clever and intelligent. He can read people like a book and understands what motivates them.

Joaquin Phoenix's Arthur Fleck was a mentally unstable lunatic who just sought chaos. He had no leadership of any type with the mob or gang as we see from the Joker in the comics. The Joker movie was lame. The Joker from the Gotham tv series was better than this movie.
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An L of an Ag
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In reply to AgTrip • 8:49p, 4/2/24
AG
This is almost where I land on this. While brilliantly played by Phoenix, that Joker and that storyline most resemble the insane but very much in-control Joker from the Frank Miller graphic novels - right down to the on-air killing of a popular TV host.

The JP Joker is WAY too chaotic and a lot less focused than the Frank Miller version of the Joker that the plot seems to parallel.

Having said all this, I'm probably gonna watch this. Maybe not in the theater, but still...
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oragator
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9:03p, 4/2/24
All I know is that the way Phillips structures his pay for movies, he's about to make another 50-100 million.
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TCTTS
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In reply to AgTrip • 9:22p, 4/2/24
AG
AgTrip said:
The Joker is a criminal insane genius. This guy is anything but that. This guy is an idiot. Sure he's crazy but he's no leader or mastermind. You saw this at the end with everyone running around rioting. He was clueless. He's a loser with a giggling disease.

The Joker from the comics, Jack Napier is a fearless criminal genius and a chemist. He is extremely clever and intelligent. He can read people like a book and understands what motivates them.

Joaquin Phoenix's Arthur Fleck was a mentally unstable lunatic who just sought chaos. He had no leadership of any type with the mob or gang as we see from the Joker in the comics. The Joker movie was lame. The Joker from the Gotham tv series was better than this movie.


I wasn't a huge fan of the first movie either, I hear you, and you're not wrong. But we also haven't seen the full story yet. He literally didn't even become "the Joker" until the final act, if not the final scene of the first movie, so there's no reason that this iteration can't still become everything you're describing.

Either way, this Phoenix iteration was never meant to be THE end all be all iteration. It's just one interpretation, almost like an alternate take of sorts.
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agdoc2001
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In reply to TCTTS • 9:51p, 4/2/24
AG
TCTTS said:
AgTrip said:
The Joker is a criminal insane genius. This guy is anything but that. This guy is an idiot. Sure he's crazy but he's no leader or mastermind. You saw this at the end with everyone running around rioting. He was clueless. He's a loser with a giggling disease.

The Joker from the comics, Jack Napier is a fearless criminal genius and a chemist. He is extremely clever and intelligent. He can read people like a book and understands what motivates them.

Joaquin Phoenix's Arthur Fleck was a mentally unstable lunatic who just sought chaos. He had no leadership of any type with the mob or gang as we see from the Joker in the comics. The Joker movie was lame. The Joker from the Gotham tv series was better than this movie.


I wasn't a huge fan of the first movie either, I hear you, and you're not wrong. But we also haven't seen the full story yet. He literally didn't even become "the Joker" until the final act, if not the final scene of the first movie, so there's no reason that this iteration can't still become everything you're describing.

Either way, this Phoenix iteration was never meant to be THE end all be all iteration. It's just one interpretation, almost like an alternate take of sorts.


So a multiverse??????
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El Gallo Blanco
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In reply to AgTrip • 9:57p, 4/2/24
AgTrip said:
The Joker is a criminal insane genius. This guy is anything but that. This guy is an idiot. Sure he's crazy but he's no leader or mastermind. You saw this at the end with everyone running around rioting. He was clueless. He's a loser with a giggling disease.

The Joker from the comics, Jack Napier is a fearless criminal genius and a chemist. He is extremely clever and intelligent. He can read people like a book and understands what motivates them.

Joaquin Phoenix's Arthur Fleck was a mentally unstable lunatic who just sought chaos. He had no leadership of any type with the mob or gang as we see from the Joker in the comics. The Joker movie was lame. The Joker from the Gotham tv series was better than this movie.


He finally found his true gift and passion. I bet we see him act more like it in the next one. Bet he realizes he is actually an evil genius now that he is emboldened.
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El Gallo Blanco
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In reply to TCTTS • 10:04p, 4/2/24
TCTTS said:
AgTrip said:
The Joker is a criminal insane genius. This guy is anything but that. This guy is an idiot. Sure he's crazy but he's no leader or mastermind. You saw this at the end with everyone running around rioting. He was clueless. He's a loser with a giggling disease.

The Joker from the comics, Jack Napier is a fearless criminal genius and a chemist. He is extremely clever and intelligent. He can read people like a book and understands what motivates them.

Joaquin Phoenix's Arthur Fleck was a mentally unstable lunatic who just sought chaos. He had no leadership of any type with the mob or gang as we see from the Joker in the comics. The Joker movie was lame. The Joker from the Gotham tv series was better than this movie.


wasn't a huge fan of the first movie either, I hear you, and you're not wrong. But we also haven't seen the full story yet. He literally didn't even become "the Joker" until the final act, if not the final scene of the first movie, so there's no reason that this iteration can't still become everything you're describing.

Either way, this Phoenix iteration was never meant to be THE end all be all iteration. It's just one interpretation, almost like an alternate take of sorts.


I almost wonder if this could have been one of those "depends on how you go into it" movies? If I really knew more about the original Jokers, or had been waiting in anticipation for this movie for months, or came into it with certain expectations or assumptions, I may have very well come away disappointed.

I know people who didn't really like "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood" (one of my fav movies) because of some of these reasons. Expecting it to be centered around the Manson murders, instead of just a really cool era in Hollywood.
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C@LAg
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10:07p, 4/2/24
my bet is the whole movie occurs in Arkham Asylum and is the joker's wooing/corruption of Harley.... as she studies/analyzes him/falls for him.

they are going to do the whole jukebox musical thing as the basis of him and Dr Quinzel sparing as she falls under his thrall. The jukebox songs will actually tell the story and serve as substation for the Joker's thoughts/inner monologue.

And the end is when she is fully converted to Harley Quinn and helps him actually escape. SO pretty much everything is musical fantasy to represent their "love" story and his attempt at escaping Arkham.
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TCTTS
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In reply to El Gallo Blanco • 10:14p, 4/2/24
AG
I had huge expectations for Once Upon a Time in Hollywood and it surpassed them.

I had next to no expectations for Joker and was still underwhelmed. Parts of it were interesting, but overall it just felt like a frat bro's version of a "deep" emo movie to me. I don't know, I just got the impression that writer/director Todd Phillips thought it was way cooler/edgier than it actually was, which is probably an unfair assessment.
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El Gallo Blanco
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In reply to TCTTS • 10:34p, 4/2/24
TCTTS said:
I had huge expectations for Once Upon a Time in Hollywood and it surpassed them.

I had next to no expectations for Joker and was still underwhelmed. Parts of it were interesting, but overall it just felt like a frat bro's version of a "deep" emo movie to me. I don't know, I just got the impression that writer/director Todd Phillips thought it was way cooler/edgier than it actually was, which is probably an unfair assessment.


I respect and understand that take. But personally I could see the movie resonating much more with rejects, outcasts, and the bullied than with frat daddies. He is basically raised similarly to how most serial killers and school shooters were raised. Lives an unimaginably depressing and miserable existence that has crippled and handicapped him to the point he feels completely disjointed from the rest of society. Then at the very end he starts to find his super villain path once he sees how alive he feels for the first time ever after beginning his quest for revenge.

But mostly…have you seen Joker…

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In reply to El Gallo Blanco • 10:44p, 4/2/24
AG
I think you just nailed my main issue with it, which is that it's predictably/unimaginably exactly how one would expect an outcast/school shooter origin story to go. I don't mean to sh*t on anyone who's able to identify with it, it's just that from a narrative standpoint it felt kind of cliched and like it had nothing new to say. There were simply no twists or turns or surprising psychological insights.
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C@LAg
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10:46p, 4/2/24
the joker does not work without Batman. period.

Batman is what gives the Joker meaning and purpose From his very creation..
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In reply to C@LAg • 10:49p, 4/2/24
AG
I would argue this still holds true for the first movie, re: Thomas Wayne, at least. And thus, by proxy, Bruce as well.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to TCTTS • 12:05a, 4/3/24
AG
Quote:
it's just that from a narrative standpoint it felt kind of cliched and like it had nothing new to say.


Unlike say, Twisters.
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PatAg
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12:53a, 4/3/24
AG
One is a fun movie about tornados that doesnt pretend to be anything else. The other...
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In reply to PatAg • 12:56a, 4/3/24
Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to PatAg • 1:07a, 4/3/24
AG
PatAg said:
One is a [copy of a] fun movie about tornados that pretends to be original . The other...


FIFY
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Capybara
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2:57a, 4/3/24
I missed it in theaters and don't think I watched it until sometime in 2022. Could only make it through ten minutes, as it felt distant and cold.
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4:14a, 4/3/24
AG
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El Gallo Blanco
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In reply to Capybara • 9:44a, 4/3/24
Capybara said:
I missed it in theaters and don't think I watched it until sometime in 2022. Could only make it through ten minutes, as it felt distant and cold.


It's dark AF. I do find it to be a particularly deep and heavy movie for the most part, esp for a movie about a comic-villain. And the most unique comic-inspired story I've ever seen. I do not get the "unoriginal" or "cliched" takes at all personally, but respect that everyone's diff.
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Max Power
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In reply to TCTTS • 10:30a, 4/3/24
AG
TCTTS said:
I had huge expectations for Once Upon a Time in Hollywood and it surpassed them.

I had next to no expectations for Joker and was still underwhelmed. Parts of it were interesting, but overall it just felt like a frat bro's version of a "deep" emo movie to me. I don't know, I just got the impression that writer/director Todd Phillips thought it was way cooler/edgier than it actually was, which is probably an unfair assessment.
Part of me has wondered if what Todd Philips originally conceived of The Joker actually got twisted around by what Phoenix did with the role. While Phoenix is incredibly talented and been great in some films I really enjoy, he's also come across to me as a guy who might just show up and do what he wants, but I could totally be off base there. That or Philips had an idea and was able to get approval to use The Joker IP for his idea.

I agree with another post above that his portrayal didn't mesh with what The Joker is, in any iteration that previously exists. While mental instability makes sense, I think they took it too far. The extreme violence does make sense for The Joker in terms of what he's done but the construction of the character was off.

In my mind The Joker was always a villain that was created by Gotham itself. The city created him in the same way it created Batman. They did show some of that by Arthur's interactions with the Wayne family but I wanted more of the different powers that be turning him into The Joker. He didn't come across as a smart guy at all, just a weak lunatic who no longer cared. I really didn't like the first movie, it just completely missed the mark IMO.
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bluefire579
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In reply to C@LAg • 10:31a, 4/3/24
AG
C@LAg said:
the joker does not work without Batman. period.

Batman is what gives the Joker meaning and purpose From his very creation..
Pretty much how I feel about any of these spinoff movies/shows (Gotham, Joker, any of the Sony Spider-man villain movies, etc.). So many of these characters are created as direct foils to their respective superheroes that it and it's that conflict that makes them interesting (terrible writing in the Sony ones in particular notwithstanding).

I thought the first Joker was fine, but yeah, it almost feels like someone becoming a copycat villain instead of The Joker.
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Capybara
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In reply to El Gallo Blanco • 1:10p, 4/3/24
El Gallo Blanco said:
Capybara said:
I missed it in theaters and don't think I watched it until sometime in 2022. Could only make it through ten minutes, as it felt distant and cold.


It's dark AF. I do find it to be a particularly deep and heavy movie for the most part, esp for a movie about a comic-villain. And the most unique comic-inspired story I've ever seen. I do not get the "unoriginal" or "cliched" takes at all personally, but respect that everyone's diff.
I can't really judge it as I've of course only watched a small portion, but part of the issue is things I saw online from the ages of maybe 12-18/19 were so much worse than just about anything a movie could ever portray. Which has arguably been good taste-wise, as no movie or show can subsist on cheap shock value for those of my age/experiences.

Also I'm just not a superhero guy. Nothing "wrong" with being one, but I've just never gotten there.
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The Porkchop Express
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2:47p, 4/3/24
AG
There should be about 20 non stop live stream cameras of people trying to say the title when they buy tickets
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TheDoctor
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6:50p, 4/3/24
AG
The first one was underwhelming from a story telling standpoint. Its message, if there was one, was to stand on a soapbox and boldly proclaim we live in a society. It was nihilistic from the get go and didn't change.

Phoenix was fantastic. And I'm happy to see where he takes his version. But the
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Cliff.Booth
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6:59p, 4/3/24
Joker had what I call the Catcher in the Rye Effect, which is where there is a protagonist who is a ****ing loser but IRL losers lionize him into a folk hero. It was a clarion call for dudes who got bullied in school and can't get laid and might be on the spectrum and want everyone to know they are a lil wacky and hateful.
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El Gallo Blanco
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In reply to Cliff.Booth • 8:24p, 4/3/24
Cliff.Booth said:
Joker had what I call the Catcher in the Rye Effect, which is where there is a protagonist who is a ****ing loser but IRL losers lionize him into a folk hero. It was a clarion call for dudes who got bullied in school and can't get laid and might be on the spectrum and want everyone to know they are a lil wacky and hateful.
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Sex Panther
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In reply to Cliff.Booth • 8:32p, 4/3/24
AG
Cliff.Booth said:
Joker had what I call the Catcher in the Rye Effect, which is where there is a protagonist who is a ****ing loser but IRL losers lionize him into a folk hero. It was a clarion call for dudes who got bullied in school and can't get laid and might be on the spectrum and want everyone to know they are a lil wacky and hateful.

You're just a phony
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