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Moore is no more guilty of distortion and lies than the Republican National Committee.

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so I guess 2 wrongs make a right in your world?

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Someone explain to me why Michael Moore is "lying" when he edits film to support his point of view, but it's all just fun and games when a presidential candidate's campaign does the same thing.

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I'll type really slow so you might understand . . .

THE CANDIDATES AREN'T CLAIMING THEIR T.V. SPOTS ARE DOCUMENTARIES.

Hope that clears it up, genius.


"B.J. is a young Brett Favre."
SirWelker, 12/31/03, on crack

Move On or Move Out.

So people are supposed to believe that Bush is lying when he says Kerry voted to raise taxes 300 times?

I mean, it's not a documentary,

Bush and Kerry both have an agenda. They both present facts in a manner by which to further said agenda. They are taking facts and spinning them in such a way as to make present them in a manner favorable to their positions and actions or unfavorable to the positions and actions of their opponent. That's politics.

On the other hand, Moore has created a "documentary" (see below) to sway the idiots in our society through his "exposé" on the "facts" relating to the 9/11 attacks on this country.

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doc·u·men·ta·ry Pronunciation Key (dky-mnt-r)
adj.
1. Consisting of, concerning, or based on documents.
2. Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film.

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Now, it is his right to make a propaganda film to support his politics. Just don't present the "facts" as if they were really facts. Be intellectually honest. Unfortunately, there are plenty of idiots out there who will see this film, think the messages in it have something to do with reality, and be swayed by it. Moore is lying by presenting half-truths and fabrications as "facts."

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So people are supposed to believe that Bush is lying when he says Kerry voted to raise taxes 300 times?

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No, Tanya, they are supposed to believe that Bush is telling the truth and that Kerry did vote to raise taxes 300 times. That's what the author of the message wants. Just like Moore wants you to believe that Bush has significant ties to Osama Bin Laden and may have actually had a hand in the attacks. That's what he wants.

Of course, if you do believe that I have a bridge I could get to you at a very reasonable price. I'll even make a movie about it if you want me to.

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THE CANDIDATES AREN'T CLAIMING THEIR T.V. SPOTS ARE DOCUMENTARIES.

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Moore himself has said that his film is more op-ed piece than documentary.

My point is that much of this outrage over Moore's film is not so much about misrepresentation of the facts or manipulation of images as it is about the fact that some people just don't like what he's saying. On the other hand, when their favorite candidate releases a misleading or false attack ad about his opponent, there is no moral outrage at all. Is it because we have come to expect all politicians to lie, so we set the bar lower for them than we do for film makers?

the way I see it, if you have to be outrageous and ridiculous when you are stating your point, your opinion or what you have to say probably doesnt matter anyways

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My point is that much of this outrage over Moore's film is not so much about misrepresentation of the facts or manipulation of images as it is about the fact that some people just don't like what he's saying.

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Wrong. Most of the outrage IS over Moore's tactics and the fact that most of the absolutely horrifyingly dim-witted people who make up his fan base are too damn stupid and/or lazy to do their own fact checking to see if there is any reason to believe his outrageous conspiracy theories.

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Wrong. Most of the outrage IS over Moore's tactics and the fact that most of the absolutely horrifyingly dim-witted people who make up his fan base are too damn stupid and/or lazy to do their own fact checking to see if there is any reason to believe his outrageous conspiracy theories.

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Like I said..ignorant people

first off, i want to say this:

1. i didn't vote for bush, i actually wanted mccain
2. i wasn't for the war in iraq. i wasn't against it either (was that kerryesque?). i wanted the war only with UN support. but i do believe that iraq is better off now than before (or at least will be in the near future)
3. i can't stand irrational, one-sided talk---people like Rush Limbaugh irritate me.

now, on to this movie....
1. it's notable that a movie about September 11 and subsequent events DOESN'T show the planes crashing into the towers or the pentagon or a field. sure, the noise of the towers crashes is there, but we're in a movie theatre, not listening to fireside chat. brilliant editing/directing/producing/whatever it's called choice.
2. we're led to believe that Fox news corruptly called Florida for Bush when all other news networks called it for Gore. Sure, but AFTER Fox news called it for Gore and 4 laters, nonetheless:
QUOTE:
All networks reported a Bush victory and a short time later recanted; CBS
News yesterday announced the formation of a three-person commission to e...
***http://www.highbeam.com/library/doc0.asp?docid=1P1:36735375&refid=ink_d6&skeyword=&teaser=
***
At 2:16 a.m. on Wednesday morning, Fox became the first network to call Florida for Bush. Minutes later, CBS, ABC, NBC, and CNN made the same call.
***http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/11/14/politics/main249357.shtml
***
Gore started by surprising everyone at 8PM Eastern when it appeared that he had snagged the prize of Election 2000: Florida.
But, at the eleventh hour: Bush took a series of small states himself. And then, Florida moved back into the "too close to call" category, and both campaigns sat down and sweated out the hours until 2:15AM -- when Florida fell to Bush, along with the White House.
***http://www.evote.com/elections2000/results/presidentresults2000.asp
***
People want to think that Gore won Florida and the Supreme Court (read below) gave the election to Bush. The ONLY time Gore ever had florida was for a few hours based on NEWS EXIT POLLS. What a surprise that after the west side of florida, which is in a different time zone and has military bases (usually conservative votes), closes its polls, the exit polls change.
3. We're led to believe that without an election victory, Daddy's supreme court can appoint you. This supreme court has two Bush I appointees:
David Hacket Souter—October, 1990
Clarence Thomas–October, 1991
I believe Souter is fairly liberal
4. The Coalition of the willing is painted as including powers such as Costa Rica and Morocco. Then our leaders painted as idiots for calling it a strong coalition. Michael Moore: you forgot Britain, Spain, Turkey, etc.
5 Bush is made to look like an idiot for waiting SEVEN, 7, SEVEN freaking minutes in a classroom after being told something by his advisors about the planes crashing into the towers. Who here doesn't believe that, had Bush immediately got up, which is what the movie seems to want, that the voice over in the movie would have gone as follows:
"After the first plane crashed into the first tower, Bush still wanted his prized photo-op; all he needed now was his cue to RUSH to his well thought out plan"---this would have conveniently shown a picture of Bush getting immediately after hearing of the second crash.
6. Because Michael Moore doesn't give the straight facts on the easy stuff (who the justices are on the supreme court, the members of the coalition, etc.) it's hard to believe him on the more complex stuff. Nonetheless, i had to check one thing out: Hamid Karzai as advisor to Unocal?
***
Jared Israel: You're right. It's not a direct quote. The only thing they're quoting are the words, "lead company." The other thing that is being asserted everywhere is that Hamid Karzai, the current head of the Afghan 'government' once worked for you.
Barry Lane: Yeah. Yeah, well that's probably one of the great urban legends. He never worked for us.
Jared Israel: He didn't work for somebody else who worked for you?
Barry Lane: No. No, not him. He was never a consultant, never an employee. We've exhaustively searched through all our records to try and find out where the hell that came from.
Jared Israel: Le Monde. Dec. 6th, 2001.
Barry Lane: Le Monde. Le Monde was the one who wrote it first and you know what's strange about it is I've asked reporters over and over again, go ask Mr. Karzai himself. And nobody has.
***http://emperors-clothes.com/interviews/lane.htm
NOTE: Barry Lane is UNOCAL's manager for public relations. This interview was conducted by telephone at around noon July 8th.
According to Afghan, Iranian, and Turkish government sources, Hamid Karzai, the interim Prime Minister of Afghanistan, was a top adviser to the El Segundo, California-based UNOCAL Corporation which was negotiating with the Taliban to construct a Central Asia Gas (CentGas) pipeline from Turkmenistan through western Afghanistan to Pakistan.
***http://globalresearch.ca/articles/MAD201A.html
***
Granted, I don't know if he was an advisor or not, but at least it's not as clear as Mikey wants us to believe. For any matter, there are lots of 'advisors' out there. Dean Powers of UT Law was an 'advisor' to Enron, albeit solely to determine their ethical violations.
7. On the sympathy card he plays in the movie; here's a few quotes:
"The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not "insurgents" or "terrorists" or "The Enemy." They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow -- and they will win."
" I'm sorry, but the majority of Americans supported this war once it began and, sadly, that majority must now sacrifice their children until enough blood has been let that maybe -- just maybe -- God and the Iraqi people will forgive us in the end. "
-Michael Moore, April 14, 2004
***http://www.moorelies.com/



that is all. enjoy

I'm amazed at the CASH MM will be making off this piece of rubbish. If he really wanted to make a political statement, why doesn't he give the proceeds from the film to the DNC?
Does anyone know what MM is doing with his $$$ from this flick?

I'm amazed at the CASH MM will be making off this piece of rubbish. If he really wanted to make a political statement, why doesn't he give the proceeds from the film to the DNC?
Does anyone know what MM is doing with his $$$ from this flick?

Sorry for the double post!

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Does anyone know what MM is doing with his $$$ from this flick?

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He'll keep opining about the evils of American capitalism and how The Man is keeping the low income working class citizens of Flint, Michigan down...

... while smoking a fat cigar and drinking a cosmo in his million dollar Manhattan apartment.

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the way I see it, if you have to be outrageous and ridiculous when you are stating your point, your opinion or what you have to say probably doesnt matter anyways

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