LMCane said:

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I don't mind seeing a strong female

I mind seeing a 104 pound female beating a 6 foot 4 inch 215 pound man in a hand to hand combat fight

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That's an incredibly specific thing to be bothered by.

Gigem314 said:

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Iowaggie said:

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I'd suggest that it is part of a larger problem that Hollywood has had, especially since 2020: the predictability of "underrepresented" groups in films.

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Black Panther and Falcon from the MCU immediately come to mind...neither of them make any major mistakes, are usually the ones dictating things to others, with no actual flaws. They are made out to be saintly.

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i don't want to derail my own thread. i'm glad people are starting realize/admit that Black Panther isn't among the greatest films of all time (which is where the ratings were for so long after it came out\).

What screams out from this thread is the trend of folks being bothered when women punch above their weight or when black characters be Boy Scouts, but zero complaints when it's white men doing either of those things.

It's bad when Black Panther and Falcon avoid major mistakes and give orders, but no complaints when Captain America's doing the same.

It's bad when 5'10, 120 Charlize Theron kicks ass in Atomic Blond, but nobody on this thread is complaining when 5'7, 170 Tom Cruise kicks ass in Jack Reacher.

These could be broad complaints, "I don't like it when smaller actors beat up much larger actors in movies," or "I don't like characters who are Boy Scouts."

But instead it's, "I don't like it when women beat up much larger actors in movies," and "I don't like black men who are Boy Scouts."

LOL

After you typed all that jibberish, did you fart and savor the smell of it?

Yeah, you did.

Aggie_Journalist said:

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What screams out from this thread is the trend of folks being bothered when women punch above their weight or when black characters be Boy Scouts, but zero complaints when it's white men doing either of those things.

It's bad when Black Panther and Falcon avoid major mistakes and give orders, but no complaints when Captain America's doing the same.

It's bad when 5'10, 120 Charlize Theron kicks ass in Atomic Blond, but nobody on this thread is complaining when 5'7, 170 Tom Cruise kicks ass in Jack Reacher.

These could be broad complaints, "I don't like it when smaller actors beat up much larger actors in movies," or "I don't like characters who are Boy Scouts."

But instead it's, "I don't like it when women beat up much larger actors in movies," and "I don't like black men who are Boy Scouts."

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Captain America made mistakes. There are articles discussing the many mistakes he made throughout the MCU.

People absolutely *****ed about cruise as reacher.

That was a pathetic attempt there.

Mayor West said:

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85aggie777 said:

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JayHowdy! said:

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The best strong female character that I have seen in years is Phoenix from last years Maverick. She was strong, confident, extremely capable and at the same time beautiful, understanding and sympathetic. All of this and without the usual Hollywood BS that goes along with a strong female character. She was written as a pilot, trying to do her best, and to get selected for the mission that only a few of the worlds best pilots could execute. Not once was was there a disbelief that this character was there due to quotas, gender inclusion, or simply that we had to have a female pilot. Hats of to the writers that created this character, a character that I hope my daughter could emulate and become in the future.

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I had the exact same feeling when I watched the movie. She was a competent pilot without her or the movie needing to make a "statement" about the fact she was a woman in a male dominated field or making her macho. Top Gun: Maverick got it right on so many levels.

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It helps when the female badass doesn't have to be a physically dominant badass, especially when interacting with physically dominant male counterparts.

Another strong female lead that I haven't seen mentioned yet is Emily Blunt in Edge of Tomorrow.

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Hit Girl in Kickass. There was a little bit of physical, but mostly just training, speed, dexterity and moxie.

Aggie_Journalist said:

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What screams out from this thread is the trend of folks being bothered when women punch above their weight or when black characters be Boy Scouts, but zero complaints when it's white men doing either of those things.

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Completely off base. No one likes a flawless character no matter the color or gender. It's why everyone loves Batman while no one can make a decent Superman movie.

It's similar to the Matrix where the Smiths explain to Neo that the 1st simulation failed because it was too perfect so humanity rejected it. We like our characters complex, imperfect, and haunted by the mistakes of the past.

Let's get back to the good part!

Sarah Connor sneaking up on the guards in the mental ward, smashing them in the face with a baton, and threatening then with rat poison. That is how you do it right.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Sarah Connor sneaking up on the guards in the mental ward, smashing them in the face with a baton, and threatening then with rat poison. That is how you do it right.

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Watched it the first time on lawn chairs in the bed of a pickup with my buddies at the drive in. Made even better because the guards were creepers, the chick guard looked like a total Karen, and dewshy quack was a dewshy quack.

Watching that was the white guy version of Cube.............DAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMNNNNN

Gigem314 said:

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Black Panther and Falcon from the MCU immediately come to mind...neither of them make any major mistakes, are usually the ones dictating things to others, with no actual flaws. They are made out to be saintly.

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Black Panther gets beat up by his cousin, loses his mantle, is thrown off a cliff, literally almost dies, is found in a river by his enemy, and is rescued by his mom and girlfriend after his dad gives him advice in a dream.

Every time I read the thread title I hear the "Single Female Lawyer" jingle from Futurama in my head.

fig96 said:

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Black Panther loses his mantle, literally almost dies, is found in a river by his enemy, and is rescued by his mom and girlfriend.

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He deals with struggle, yes. But I still think it falls into the category of what the video above described...that he has all that he needs to succeed, but just needs to let go of the limitations imposed on him by others. I still think they did the character a disservice with the 'Superman' persona. It's not as blatant as many of the 'strong female' characters but I think it's still there.

This has to be a troll attempt because it would be difficult to be this wrong about so many things.

While I'm not sure I jump fully onboard the Aggie Journalist train, picking on Atomic Blonde is a really poor choice. That stairwell fight scene where Theron is getting savaged by two dudes and barely scrapes by is sick action sequence.

One of the best fight scenes of the past 20 years.

Is it ok if I don't care as long as they're topless at some point in the film?

/s

I haven't gotten around to watching this video yet but Captain Marvel's main issue was that it had like 5 different writers, constantly being rewritten by someone else. And Endgame filmed before CM did, so all the Russo's knew to do was make her tough. And that's all we've seen of her. In one of the biggest movies of all time, nobody knew what to do with her so they just made her tough and bland. And that's the opinion we've all been left with since 2019.

Now Rey I do have problems with. She could fly as well as Han, repair the Falcon as fast as Chewie, use the force with ease and beat a trained Jedi with a lightsaber (I don't care that he'd been shot). That **** irked me. It made for a cool reveal when she was the hero instead of Finn but it was pretty cheap. Undermined an otherwise likeable character IMO.

I watched Singin' in the Rain yesterday and had this thread on my mind. It's remarkable how well the female lead is handled, and in 1952 at that. She can give as good as she gets, is talented and charming, falls for the leading man but no sooner than he falls for her. She don't need no man but her personality isn't built around it.

The unfortunate fact is that that example is extremely rare and there are way, way more examples of doing it wrong than doing it right. This thread has listed about 10, over decades of cinema. You're seeing some rubberband effect today.

Also, many of these bad examples of Strong Female Character were still written by men. Maybe we should direct our Rey angst at JJ Abrams.

I'll watch the video soon and check back in, maybe I'm repeating a lot of its points.

The wife has picked up on this over the past couple of years and it's actually one of the drivers for not watching a lot of these goofy movies. Her concern is that she has noticed that males are not properly represented. The strong female is fine but they stifle males and masculinity and she actually hates it because of the young boys watching this trash that don't have real male figures to look up and get a false sense of what being male is about. The fact is that whether anyone likes it or not, society, as a whole, still likes male/female interaction and women still like and want toxic masculinity. Hollywood can **** off. We run a very typical nuclear household with old school values from the 60s though so….

I accept the fact that she is better at keeping the house together and making sure my kids are raised right and she accepts the fact that she can't throw 110 hay bales in the sun until it's finished. It's just life. Why do we Insist on everyone being equal and the same and just as good as someone else? There is nothing about life that is equal. We are not equal. We weren't born equal. We weren't created equal. I was born way better off than a lot of people and there are many more than we're born better off than I am. It's just a fact. Get over it.

Aggie_Journalist said:

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What screams out from this thread is the trend of folks being bothered when women punch above their weight or when black characters be Boy Scouts, but zero complaints when it's white men doing either of those things.

It's bad when Black Panther and Falcon avoid major mistakes and give orders, but no complaints when Captain America's doing the same.

It's bad when 5'10, 120 Charlize Theron kicks ass in Atomic Blond, but nobody on this thread is complaining when 5'7, 170 Tom Cruise kicks ass in Jack Reacher.

These could be broad complaints, "I don't like it when smaller actors beat up much larger actors in movies," or "I don't like characters who are Boy Scouts."

But instead it's, "I don't like it when women beat up much larger actors in movies," and "I don't like black men who are Boy Scouts."

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Oh Good Lord.

Instead of all this jibberish, why don't you just call everyone racist and sexist? Seems much more concise.

Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

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Aggie_Journalist said:

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What screams out from this thread is the trend of folks being bothered when women punch above their weight or when black characters be Boy Scouts, but zero complaints when it's white men doing either of those things.

It's bad when Black Panther and Falcon avoid major mistakes and give orders, but no complaints when Captain America's doing the same.

It's bad when 5'10, 120 Charlize Theron kicks ass in Atomic Blond, but nobody on this thread is complaining when 5'7, 170 Tom Cruise kicks ass in Jack Reacher.

These could be broad complaints, "I don't like it when smaller actors beat up much larger actors in movies," or "I don't like characters who are Boy Scouts."

But instead it's, "I don't like it when women beat up much larger actors in movies," and "I don't like black men who are Boy Scouts."

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Oh Good Lord.

Instead of all this jibberish, why don't you just call everyone racist and sexist? Seems much more concise.

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Well he's just practicing his journalism. It's hard to separate his job from the rest of the world. If you lie for a living, you start to actually believe the lies you spew as if they're fact. So as such, everyone (or at least white males) is racist and sexist.

The idea that nobody complained about Jack Reacher being played by Tom Cruise is hilarious. They rebooted the entire universe for almost exactly that reason.

Reacher on Amazon is also worth a watch, really enjoyed it and looking forward to s2.

Me too!

fig96 said:

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Reacher on Amazon is also worth a watch, really enjoyed it and looking forward to s2.

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December can't get here fast enough. My favorite new show of the last few years.

Fenrir said:

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fig96 said:

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Reacher on Amazon is also worth a watch, really enjoyed it and looking forward to s2.

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December can't get here fast enough. My favorite new show of the last few years.

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Having read the books, having the mini-man Tom Cruise play the part of Jack Reacher, "the white ape", was a total joke. The prime series is pretty good. Looking forward to season two coming out.