Anyone seen Sound of Freedom?

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Some Junkie Cosmonaut
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In reply to Macarthur • 1:18p, 7/19/23
AG
Macarthur said:
No doubt he has a lot of experience in some of these places. I'm just talking about the fact that with him not being a part of the government anymore, he may not always have the most up to date geopolitical information on the ground in some of these places. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, just that it makes it higher risk, i would think.


You mean something like…"stay away from Epstein's island!"…I kid but I'm sure "Pedo Pete" and the gang are a great resource for stemming nefarious activities from questionable actors.







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aTmAg
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In reply to Rocag • 1:21p, 7/19/23
AG
Rocag said:
And what part of his training recommended relying on psychics, treating it like a reality TV show, and letting celebrities and rich donors cosplay as "operators"?
There is a huge difference between getting a tip from a psychic and "relying on psychics". Cops get tips from drug addicts all the time, that doesn't mean they hire them on staff or otherwise "rely" on them.

And who gives a crap if he lets donors do that as part of fund raising? I couldn't care less as long as he raises his money honestly.
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aTmAg
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In reply to Macarthur • 1:24p, 7/19/23
AG
Macarthur said:
aTmAg said:
Macarthur said:
No doubt he has a lot of experience in some of these places. I'm just talking about the fact that with him not being a part of the government anymore, he may not always have the most up to date geopolitical information on the ground in some of these places. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, just that it makes it higher risk, i would think.
Didn't he leave the government because they sucked and weren't doing enough?

Government is incompetent at nearly everything it endeavors to do.

I have no idea why he left.

Tired.
So tired that he subsequently spent a decade doing more tiring stuff overseas?

Yeah... no.
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Macarthur
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In reply to aTmAg • 1:25p, 7/19/23
The tired part was about your second point.
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Rocag
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In reply to aTmAg • 1:28p, 7/19/23
AG
I don't think the drug dealers are giving tips based on their alleged supernatural abilities, that's the difference.

And when you're putting untrained people into potentially dangerous situations for no valid tactical reason that is a problem. There's a very good reason Ballard and his organization have been criticized by law enforcement agencies and other anti-child trafficking groups for their recklessness and potential harm to the cause that they all care about.

Not to mention that offering pimps huge sums of money to find them underage prostitutes creates demand and inevitably leads to children being trafficked that otherwise might not have been. There's a reason others don't use that method.
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aTmAg
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In reply to Macarthur • 1:29p, 7/19/23
AG
Macarthur said:
The tired part was about your second point.
What's tiring that it has to be said over and over and you guys still don't grasp the simple truth of it.
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Macarthur
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In reply to Rocag • 1:30p, 7/19/23
Rocag said:
I don't think the drug dealers are giving tips based on their alleged supernatural abilities, that's the difference.

And when you're putting untrained people into potentially dangerous situations for no valid tactical reason that is a problem. There's a very good reason Ballard and his organization have been criticized by law enforcement agencies and other anti-child trafficking groups for their recklessness and potential harm to the cause that they all care about.

Not to mention that offering pimps huge sums of money to find them underage prostitutes creates demand and inevitably leads to children being trafficked that otherwise might not have been. There's a reason others don't use that method.


This was one I read about yesterday that shocked me.
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goatchze
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In reply to Some Junkie Cosmonaut • 1:33p, 7/19/23
AG
Some Junkie Cosmonaut said:
boy09 said:
Eso si, Que es said:

Again, maybe it is just sheer incompetence, but could you imagine Taco Bell just continuing to make tacos when there are a hundred customers in their lobby waiting for their gordita? It makes no sense.
The Taco Bell analogy is not great, because they discontinue their most popular items all the time..


R.I.P. double decker taco.
You gotta just keep ordering it. They can make it.

Had two for lunch today!
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In reply to Rocag • 1:33p, 7/19/23
AG
Rocag said:
I don't think the drug dealers are giving tips based on their alleged supernatural abilities, that's the difference.
Show me a (credible) link where Ballard went to psychics and said "use your supernatural abilities to show us where these kids are".

Quote:
And when you're putting untrained people into potentially dangerous situations for no valid tactical reason that is a problem. There's a very good reason Ballard and his organization have been criticized by law enforcement agencies and other anti-child trafficking groups for their recklessness and potential harm to the cause that they all care about.
Show me a link to where any of these guys been injured.

Quote:
Not to mention that offering pimps huge sums of money to find them underage prostitutes creates demand and inevitably leads to children being trafficked that otherwise might not have been. There's a reason others don't use that method.
Show me more links.
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Macarthur
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In reply to aTmAg • 1:55p, 7/19/23
The problem is any link to a mainstream media article is going to illicit a 'fake news' response. You're going to have it both ways.
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In reply to Macarthur • 1:57p, 7/19/23
AG
Macarthur said:
The problem is any link to a mainstream media article is going to illicit a 'fake news' response. You're going to have it both ways.
The fact that you guys are unwilling to post it even after reading it yesterday, is giving me more vibes that even you know it's fake news.
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Macarthur
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2:15p, 7/19/23
https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2023/july/anti-trafficking-ministries-nonprofits-sound-of-freedom.html
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Macarthur
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2:18p, 7/19/23
Shaw saw the film in a packed theater and as he was sitting there, he was thinking to himself about what the millions who have seen the film will do next.
"What can this American audience that watches this film of something that's happening in Central and South America do to get activated locally?" he said. "We're not going into the rainforest in a motorboat to … rescue children."


He hopes people will look up anti-trafficking organizations in their communities. He remembered a 2011 sex trafficking documentary, Nefarious, that provoked an outpouring of support and volunteerism for anti-trafficking organizations. At Frontline, after that film came out, he remembered packed trainings and onboarding people "as fast as we could" to do tasks like outreach or manning hotlines.


I still havne't had anyone answer the question that has seen the movie...does the movie list any organizations that someone could contact if they want to help? Do they just give you to option to buy more tickets?
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aTmAg
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In reply to Macarthur • 2:28p, 7/19/23
AG
Macarthur said:
https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2023/july/anti-trafficking-ministries-nonprofits-sound-of-freedom.html

This doesn't address any of the crap that I asked for links.
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aTmAg
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2:34p, 7/19/23
AG
And it's interesting that you left this part out:

Quote:
Shaw was "blown away" by the movie and is recommending it to people
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Macarthur
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In reply to aTmAg • 2:37p, 7/19/23
Yes, it did address the point about him creating demand for kids.
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Macarthur
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In reply to aTmAg • 2:37p, 7/19/23
aTmAg said:
And it's interesting that you left this part out:

Quote:
Shaw was "blown away" by the movie and is recommending it to people


I have no doubt, and never said anything to the contrary, that it's very impactful.
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In reply to Macarthur • 2:40p, 7/19/23
AG
Macarthur said:
Yes, it did address the point about him creating demand for kids.
Where TF does it address that? I couldn't see it anywhere. And your quoted text surely doesn't say it.
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aTmAg
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In reply to Macarthur • 2:40p, 7/19/23
AG
Macarthur said:
aTmAg said:
And it's interesting that you left this part out:

Quote:
Shaw was "blown away" by the movie and is recommending it to people


I have no doubt, and never said anything to the contrary, that it's very impactful.
In a GOOD way. That's the point.
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Macarthur
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In reply to aTmAg • 2:41p, 7/19/23
Some of the trafficking fighting methods depicted in the filmcreating an island where Ballard and his team ask traffickers to bring children, or one character buying children out of sex trafficking to free themcould inadvertently create more demand for trafficking children and worsen the problem.

"You can't help but ask the question, 'Did they go take more kids away from their families in their communities to come meet this demand?'" said Shaw from Frontline Response. "It's complicated."
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Rocag
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In reply to aTmAg • 2:48p, 7/19/23
AG
Regarding the psychic, it's from the Vice article but they did reach out to OUR for confirmation. They apparently provided a couple of articles that supported the use of psychics and wouldn't further discuss it. Doesn't sound like a denial to me.

"Show me a link where any of these guys been injured" isn't a good response when they are taking unnecessary risks with people's lives. It's the equivalent of "I've driven drunk lots of times and never gotten into an accident!"

And are you doubting that offering large amounts of money for something would increase the demand for it? This kind of approach is widely criticized as creating crimes that otherwise might not have happened. Police use this tactic a lot in drug cases, though I don't think any law enforcement agencies use similar tactics for human trafficking.
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Eso si, Que es
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In reply to Macarthur • 2:54p, 7/19/23
Macarthur said:
The problem is any link to a mainstream media article is going to illicit a 'fake news' response. You're going to have it both ways.
A link was posted to the Mark Wahlberg article a few days ago and when someone pointed out (a conservative i believe) it was unverified BS it was immediately deleted by the poster. It was dumb to post it and it just muddies the water of this discussion. It is OK to call out your own side, you don't have to believe 100% of what a conservative or liberal says to consider yourself a conservative or liberal (or Aggie, or American, or any other group). A group is a collection of individuals, who are allowed to have individual thoughts. Just because "X media group" posts it shouldn't make it gospel or fake news in anyone's opinion. We are all capable of rational and critical thinking.

I understand that everyone from the left is pointing to all of these items trying to discredit Ballard and Caviezel. I understand it reinforces their world view of evil conspiratorial Republicans. You probably know a couple of Conservatives in real life. Have a conversation with that someone you know isn't a warped conspiratorial individual and ask them their opinion, and truly listen to them.

I don't think anyone who doesn't like this film is a pedophilic trafficker. I don't think anyone who liked this film is a conspiratorial Q worshipper. But if there is an argument that is even adjacent to human trafficking, I know which side I am going to be on.

I will reiterate a post from last week. I think it boils down to influence. If you remove the pedophilic trafficking from the equation, Hollywood sees a viable opportunity for an independent studio, and actors who are conservative leaning to gain a foothold in the industry. Currently the messaging is dominated by liberals in Hollywood and I believe they want to ensure any film or project that might be conservative adjacent is portrayed as such (ie the NYT article "film championed by the right"). If all the social influence is of one persuasion, then it is much more persuasive. If there is no counter argument, then there is no argument/discussion.

Caviezel is a good actor. The director did a solid job. The story is very compelling. The budget was stretched to make an film that appears 3-4X the actual budget. It is fighting against trafficking and slavery. It is a "passion project" (normally celebrated by Hollywood). How this is anything but positive is beyond me.
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Macarthur
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In reply to Eso si, Que es • 2:59p, 7/19/23
Eso si, Que es said:
Macarthur said:
The problem is any link to a mainstream media article is going to illicit a 'fake news' response. You're going to have it both ways.
A link was posted to the Mark Wahlberg article a few days ago and when someone pointed out (a conservative i believe) it was unverified BS it was immediately deleted by the poster. It was dumb to post it and it just muddies the water of this discussion. It is OK to call out your own side, you don't have to believe 100% of what a conservative or liberal says to consider yourself a conservative or liberal (or Aggie, or American, or any other group). A group is a collection of individuals, who are allowed to have individual thoughts. Just because "X media group" posts it shouldn't make it gospel or fake news in anyone's opinion. We are all capable of rational and critical thinking.

I understand that everyone from the left is pointing to all of these items trying to discredit Ballard and Caviezel. I understand it reinforces their world view of evil conspiratorial Republicans. You probably know a couple of Conservatives in real life. Have a conversation with that someone you know isn't a warped conspiratorial individual and ask them their opinion, and truly listen to them.

I don't think anyone who doesn't like this film is a pedophilic trafficker. I don't think anyone who liked this film is a conspiratorial Q worshipper. But if there is an argument that is even adjacent to human trafficking, I know which side I am going to be on.

I will reiterate a post from last week. I think it boils down to influence. If you remove the pedophilic trafficking from the equation, Hollywood sees a viable opportunity for an independent studio, and actors who are conservative leaning to gain a foothold in the industry. Currently the messaging is dominated by liberals in Hollywood and I believe they want to ensure any film or project that might be conservative adjacent is portrayed as such (ie the NYT article "film championed by the right"). If all the social influence is of one persuasion, then it is much more persuasive. If there is no counter argument, then there is no argument/discussion.

Caviezel is a good actor. The director did a solid job. The story is very compelling. The budget was stretched to make an film that appears 3-4X the actual budget. It is fighting against trafficking and slavery. It is a "passion project" (normally celebrated by Hollywood). How this is anything but positive is beyond me.

Again, this is contributing to the unhealthy aspect of this back and forth. I don't think that the people here that disagree with me are evil conspiratorial Republicans. We must stop making this a binary discussion.

I'm not trying to discredit either person...I'm simply saying there are some problematic issues with his methods which is the point being made by human trafficking experts. The guy has rescued kids! That's great! That doesn't mean that everything he does should be rubber stamped as good and righteous.

Stop pointing to my posts as some sort of absolutists good vs evil binary choice.
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aTmAg
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In reply to Macarthur • 3:09p, 7/19/23
AG
Macarthur said:
Some of the trafficking fighting methods depicted in the filmcreating an island where Ballard and his team ask traffickers to bring children, or one character buying children out of sex trafficking to free themcould inadvertently create more demand for trafficking children and worsen the problem.

"You can't help but ask the question, 'Did they go take more kids away from their families in their communities to come meet this demand?'" said Shaw from Frontline Response. "It's complicated."
So no actual evidence, just asking the question?

These kids exist. All they have to do is ask them, "were you kidnapped in the last few days??" In fact, if a any of them were kidnapped just for these stings, then these kids (who are now adults) would line up at CNN to expose that fact. So where are they?

And the idea that cartel dudes are throttling their kidnappings because of changes in demand is ridiculous. They are getting as many kids as they can with the limited thugs they got.
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Macarthur
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In reply to aTmAg • 3:16p, 7/19/23
So, you think Shaw from Frontline Response (A Christian Trafficking organzation) is simply making this up?
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Eso si, Que es
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In reply to Macarthur • 3:17p, 7/19/23
Macarthur said:
Eso si, Que es said:
Macarthur said:
The problem is any link to a mainstream media article is going to illicit a 'fake news' response. You're going to have it both ways.
A link was posted to the Mark Wahlberg article a few days ago and when someone pointed out (a conservative i believe) it was unverified BS it was immediately deleted by the poster. It was dumb to post it and it just muddies the water of this discussion. It is OK to call out your own side, you don't have to believe 100% of what a conservative or liberal says to consider yourself a conservative or liberal (or Aggie, or American, or any other group). A group is a collection of individuals, who are allowed to have individual thoughts. Just because "X media group" posts it shouldn't make it gospel or fake news in anyone's opinion. We are all capable of rational and critical thinking.

I understand that everyone from the left is pointing to all of these items trying to discredit Ballard and Caviezel. I understand it reinforces their world view of evil conspiratorial Republicans. You probably know a couple of Conservatives in real life. Have a conversation with that someone you know isn't a warped conspiratorial individual and ask them their opinion, and truly listen to them.

I don't think anyone who doesn't like this film is a pedophilic trafficker. I don't think anyone who liked this film is a conspiratorial Q worshipper. But if there is an argument that is even adjacent to human trafficking, I know which side I am going to be on.

I will reiterate a post from last week. I think it boils down to influence. If you remove the pedophilic trafficking from the equation, Hollywood sees a viable opportunity for an independent studio, and actors who are conservative leaning to gain a foothold in the industry. Currently the messaging is dominated by liberals in Hollywood and I believe they want to ensure any film or project that might be conservative adjacent is portrayed as such (ie the NYT article "film championed by the right"). If all the social influence is of one persuasion, then it is much more persuasive. If there is no counter argument, then there is no argument/discussion.

Caviezel is a good actor. The director did a solid job. The story is very compelling. The budget was stretched to make an film that appears 3-4X the actual budget. It is fighting against trafficking and slavery. It is a "passion project" (normally celebrated by Hollywood). How this is anything but positive is beyond me.

Again, this is contributing to the unhealthy aspect of this back and forth. I don't think that the people here that disagree with me are evil conspiratorial Republicans. We must stop making this a binary discussion.

I'm not trying to discredit either person...I'm simply saying there are some problematic issues with his methods which is the point being made by human trafficking experts. The guy has rescued kids! That's great! That doesn't mean that everything he does should be rubber stamped as good and righteous.

Stop pointing to my posts as some sort of absolutists good vs evil binary choice.


I'm truly sorry you took it that way, I believe we are saying the same thing. A bad person who is conservative isn't bad because they are conservative and vice versa.

Experts are saying something about an expert. If they got together and discussed as experts, I would expect them to mostly agree with nuances. Ballard was harrolded for his work recently as noted in many main stream articles. Now he is criticized for his same work when a movie is released by the same media organizations. On the surface, it seems political.

I just don't understand the 180 and why the country is so far apart on what seems to be a unifying topic if taken at face value.
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aTmAg
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3:30p, 7/19/23
AG
Gotta drive for 4 hours.
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Dimebag Darrell
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In reply to Macarthur • 4:08p, 7/19/23
Macarthur said:
The problem is any link to a mainstream media article is going to illicit a 'fake news' response. You're going to have it both ways.
True...they constantly lie. Only a fool would trust them. Wish it wasn't that way, but it is. It's the one thing you and I agree on.
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In reply to Macarthur • 5:22p, 7/19/23
AG
Macarthur said:
So, you think Shaw from Frontline Response (A Christian Trafficking organzation) is simply making this up?


Christianity Today is the concerned moderate's evangelical publication. Your link is chef's kiss.

Have you gotten involved in an anti-trafficking org yet? I've been in the game for awhile and would love for you to hop on board in one place or another.

Or you just gonna sit here and wage war with your keyboard against people who are?
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Macarthur
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In reply to AGC • 5:36p, 7/19/23
So, are you going to engage the substance?
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Pizza
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In reply to redsquirrelAG • 7:41p, 7/19/23
redsquirrelAG said:
The movie is based on true events and the usual suspects in this thread have shown themselves. Good luck with judgement.
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Macarthur
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7:50p, 7/19/23
JKF is based on a true story, too.
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AGC
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In reply to Macarthur • 8:36p, 7/19/23
AG
Macarthur said:
So, are you going to engage the substance?


The substance is that perfect is the enemy of good, just like all the other articles posted decrying the film.

Again, what's your investment in fighting trafficking? Serve on a board? Do community trainings? Raise funds and awareness? Something as simple as donate? Cause I check all those boxes. If all you're gonna do is drive-by postings complaining about the film like sapper you're worse than the person raising awareness and saving kids; you're simply indifferent.
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Macarthur
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In reply to AGC • 9:14p, 7/19/23
That's what I thought. You're avoiding the issue and making this about me.
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aTmAg
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In reply to Macarthur • 6:40a, 7/20/23
AG
Macarthur said:
So, you think Shaw from Frontline Response (A Christian Trafficking organzation) is simply making this up?
Probably didn't just think it through. We would know by now if that was the case.
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